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Old 06-20-2011, 04:01 PM   #126
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First, hope Ford can add another model to their Flat Rock location as I hate to hear of one more person in the auto industry being laid off.
Second, I considered a 2011 Mustang but decided on the Camaro for a few basic reasons. Did not want a rear live axel driving on pot hole streets. Also, Camaro had steering wheel that was more adjustable than Mustang. Little differences yes, big difference in driver comfort.
Third, doubt most people that turn and stare at my Camaro know the HP, don't care about 0-60 times, g-forces going flat out in a corner, or any other differences between a Mustang or Camaro. They look because the styling is new, unique, and modern in an American way. It was the body style that first attracted me to the Camaro concept, and not the Transformer movies.
Last, I am an old fart and remember back in the day (LOL), when car styles changed big time about every 3 years. People bought new cars because of styling change. If you drove a 5-year old car back in the 50s or 60s, your car style just looked old in four years.
Ford has sucked the blood out of the popular 'retro' Mustang and to keep the attention of buyers they are long overdue for a major restyle (2014). If Camaro wants to keep up they need to move their restyle from 2015 to 2014 to compete with the Mustang.
Back in the Day, people traded every 3 years to have a more modern looking auto. It was all about style. I think the Camaro is popular because of body style, not about how fast it will turn, or how fast it will brake pulling into the grocery store parking lot.
Mustang's, Camaro's which are brand image autos that bring people into showrooms, need to offer new styling every 3-4 years, not every 6-9 years. I take care of my autos and still look stylish 10 years after purchase. My old fart brain indicates I will only buy another new car because styling looks more modern and unique. Perhaps, that is why most people are buying the current Camaro.
Suggest to GM, you want to compete with the restyled 2014 Mustang, introduce your restyled Camaro in 2014 and not 2015.
As for me, love my 2011 Camaro and only a very exciting new body style will bring me back to a GM showroom in 2014-15. Hate me if you wish, but I could care less how flat, and how fast, my Camaro can corner. I do care how the suspension cushions city street potholes.
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Old 06-21-2011, 01:55 AM   #127
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I hate to come in a burst people's bubbles here... but the flatrock plant is NOT in trouble because the Mustang isn't selling... it is in trouble because the plant is shared with Mazda, who is pulling out of the plant, and away from Ford all together, leaving the Mustang to be the only vehicle assembled in the plant, not cost efficient... THAT'S why the plant is in jeopardy. If the plant closes (I doubt it will..) Mustang assembly will just be moved elsewhere. All of this "Plant could be closing because the Camaro is outselling the Mustang" nonsense is all media spin.

Yes, the Camaro IS outselling the Mustang, but hey, the Mustang NEVER. WENT. AWAY. this has created a higher demand for the Camaro, along with Transformers, and the good looks of the car. In 2014 When the Mustang gets redesigned, it will jump ahead of the Camaro in sales (assuming it doesn't look like crap), and then the Camaro will get its redesign and jump ahead of the Mustang again... that's how this thing works! lol
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Old 06-21-2011, 03:08 AM   #128
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Another problem for the Mustang is the chassis for the next gen. Ford can't really count on having 100k+ sales per year on the Mustang, something which is more or less a requirement for a high volume/low cost vehicle. Perhaps they'll merge the Mustang & Falcon platforms, in a move similar to what GM did with the Camaro & Commodore/G8 (among other models). Or, maybe there will be a compact/midsize RWD lincoln in the near future. But regardless, the Mustang has a few difficulties to overcome. Not saying Ford can't get around them but ... they're not insignificant either
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Old 06-21-2011, 06:38 AM   #129
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Haha, all the Mustang guys showed up in this thread....

We wouldn't want the Mustang to go away regardless. Competition in industry is where it's at. It's a great time to be in the market for a muscle car.
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Old 06-21-2011, 05:16 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
As odd as it may seem, the declining Mustang sales may actually have more of an impact than Mazda dropping out. Lately the Mazda6 has been having a hard time cracking 40k units sold, while the Mustang is down about 60k units from 2005. The Camaro (and Challenger) can't take all the credit for that decline but never the less, the drop in Mustang sales is greater than the total Mazda6 production from recent years. Mazda could be the final nail in the coffin, but if the Mustang had better maintained its sales (or if the reskin & new engines had actually boosted sales) then they'd still have enough demand to allow Mazda to drop out without much consequence.


The previous version looked much better than what they did with their re-fresh in 2010
Right on!

Per earlier statements about Flat Rock story, why would someone say that more production space from Mazda demise would be a good thing allowing to produce more Mustangs when units sold is way down and that many days of inventory? How would that be good by putting more on the lot to not sell?

Answer to bankrupty statements (not to repeat my long ago comments on other such comments) is; No, Ford can always again borrow several billions of dollars like they did before that kept them afloat (during the economic downturn) and while GM's situation stepped up and bailed out the entire industry (US and foreign).

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Any first jobs to go should be any CEO and those that want to buy foreign products (other than those that do so for purely financial reasons).
No offense intended, but just the hard truth.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:00 PM   #131
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they cant be doing that bad.

also i just bought a v6 grabber blue premium with pony package today from them. it did take a week and a drive from new orleans to get it here.

i like my little daily driver. helps give my camaro a rest
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:04 PM   #132
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Why Does The Camaro Outsell The Mustang When The Mustang Is a Better Car?

I'm not a frequent reader on these boards, so I hope I'm not acting like a troll, but I have to ask the question.

Why does the Camaro manage to handily outsell the Mustang when almost every major auto publication that has reviewed both vehicles always says that Mustang is by far the better driving machine?

Is price or styling the issue? Are buyers more interested in looks as opposed to performance, or do the magazines have it all wrong?

Are Camaro buyers just more loyal?

When the redesigned Camaro first came out, I looked real hard at a Camaro 2SS, but the $$$ markup and the iffy interior made me think again.
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:06 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by speed330i View Post
I'm not a frequent reader on these boards, so I hope I'm not acting like a troll, but I have to ask the question.

Why does the Camaro manage to handily outsell the Mustang when almost every major auto publication that has reviewed both vehicles always says that Mustang is by far the better driving machine?
Because all the magazines are all paid by Ford to review the 'Stang high.


It's a racket.
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:42 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speed330i View Post
I'm not a frequent reader on these boards, so I hope I'm not acting like a troll, but I have to ask the question.

Why does the Camaro manage to handily outsell the Mustang when almost every major auto publication that has reviewed both vehicles always says that Mustang is by far the better driving machine?

Is price or styling the issue? Are buyers more interested in looks as opposed to performance, or do the magazines have it all wrong?

Are Camaro buyers just more loyal?

When the redesigned Camaro first came out, I looked real hard at a Camaro 2SS, but the $$$ markup and the iffy interior made me think again.
Certainly isn't price since the Mustang is cheaper and has higher incentives.

To the average person the performance gap between the two is minimal. Sure, the 2010 Camaro was faster than the 2010 Mustang, now the Mustang is faster than the Camaro. But neither of them is slow. And neither one handles like a truck. And there isn't a huge price difference between the V6's or the SS's & GT's. And there isn't a huge difference in fuel economy. And I bet there isn't a huge difference in insurance. Single biggest difference that matters is how they look.

In the weighted rankings that the magazines use, style usually accounts for something like 10 points out of 200. But in the real world, it plays a much larger role, especially in a segment like this. If you love how the Camaro looks, its not going to matter too much what the other cars in the segment are like as long as its close. But if you hate how the Mustang looks, chances are slim to nil that you're going to buy one even if it is slightly quicker or cost you a couple grand less.

Also, I don't know what sort of head restraint they have to use when they work for a car mag but anytime I've driven in a car, I tend move my head an inch or two if I can't get a clear view around part of the car. They'll also nitpick on other things, but a normal buyer does evaluate a car like the pros do. Normal people don't run their hand over every single surface, poking it and proding it to see how good the plastic is. Normal people don't set up a bunch of evenly spaced pylons in the parking lot to see how quick the car runs through them. They'll get in, play with the controls, and see how it drives.
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Old 07-02-2011, 12:35 AM   #135
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have to admit, the Camaro does have a great looking design. Although the Mustang did too when it first came out. I guess we'll have to see how the Camaro does over time.

Either way, regular Joes have it made these days. High performance vehicles are not just for the rich anymore.
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Old 07-02-2011, 04:37 AM   #136
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It was very simple for me. The Camaro looks soooo much better. I'm not a street racer. The Camaro and Challenger look so much better than the Mustang. And the price difference is not an issue if you consider that the Mustang has everything optional. HIDs, Brembos, etc. Price them comparably equipped, and they are about the same. The Challenger SRT8 is an awesome car, but priced too high. Corvette territory.
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Old 07-02-2011, 07:19 AM   #137
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I did my part and bought a Mustang to share the garage with our SS!
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