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Camaro V6 LLT Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 11-09-2011, 07:13 PM   #101
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ok if I have done my calculations correctly

the temp was 60degress
the dew point was 54
the alitmeter was 30.08

giving me a correection factor of .94

so I took 251hp x .94 giving me 23 so is the real number roughly 274hp
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:03 PM   #102
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Higher than the balls on a Giraffe!





The LLT V6 likes to be around 12.4 - 12.6 AFR from what I've seen personally.

We did an auto with an Airaid CAI and Magnaflow axle-back and the baseline before we installed the ARH LT's w/catted x-pipe was 242.65 RWHP and 228.76 RWTQ. We then installed the ARH LT's with the catted x-pipe and we got 261.33 RWHP and 249.13 RWTQ for a solid gain of 18.68 RWHP and 20.37 RWTQ. The runs were performed on the same day. We then did a Trifecta tune and the final #'s were 265.21 RWHP and 259.37 RWTQ. The tune gained 3.88 RWHP and 10.24 RWTQ.

Headers Run # 3 and the Headers and Trifecta Tune Run # 10


The largest benefit from the tuning was the torque management adjustments, Rear o2 error codes "adjusted for the header" and the shift points. Please feel free to call, email or PM me anytime with questions.

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How far are you from las Vegas? Lol. You seem to be on top of our LLT's and might take a drive to get my car dialed in correctly. Not many shops, if any, in Vegas have a clue about the v6 camaro.
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:34 AM   #103
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How far are you from las Vegas? Lol. You seem to be on top of our LLT's and might take a drive to get my car dialed in correctly. Not many shops, if any, in Vegas have a clue about the v6 camaro.
We're about 6 hours up I-15 N. Please feel free to call, email or PM me anytime with questions.

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Old 11-10-2011, 09:35 AM   #104
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JDP, in your honest opinion how much drive train loss do you think our v6 camaro get hit with? I been hearing 15% for the longest but your dyno and my dyno and almost every other dynojet's out here seem to dyno stock cars around 240 on average and alot of times even less.
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:07 PM   #105
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Ok, here are more clear shots of the current dyno. As I've said before, going back dec 3rd. Don't plan on doing anything else, but who knows

Peak is 373.95whp


Looks to be SAE corrected


Afr at 11.46
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:20 PM   #106
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JDP, in your honest opinion how much drive train loss do you think our v6 camaro get hit with? I been hearing 15% for the longest but your dyno and my dyno and almost every other dynojet's out here seem to dyno stock cars around 240 on average and alot of times even less.
I would say the manual's lose around 15-16% and the auto's are around 18-20%.

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Old 11-11-2011, 12:30 PM   #107
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OK I want to do the opposite of the ASE correction now lol. Since most family and friends I speak to go by advertised HP #'s. How do I get the power to the crank from dyno's or by adding mods.
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:34 PM   #108
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I would say the manual's lose around 15-16% and the auto's are around 18-20%.

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So for an example, our member jeff4946 dynoed at your facility 263rwhp with almost every bolt on mods with a tune. Does that mean he only probably gained 1hp?

So let's just say he lost the most at 16%, then that mean stock he should dyno at your place somewhere close to 262hp right? since 16% of 312 is something like 49.

So how does he only lose 15%-16%? because we know there's no way he only could have made 1hp with all those mods.
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Old 11-11-2011, 01:26 PM   #109
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So for an example, our member jeff4946 dynoed at your facility 263rwhp with almost every bolt on mods with a tune. Does that mean he only probably gained 1hp?

So let's just say he lost the most at 16%, then that mean stock he should dyno at your place somewhere close to 262hp right? since 16% of 312 is something like 49.

So how does he only lose 15%-16%? because we know there's no way he only could have made 1hp with all those mods.

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Old 11-11-2011, 03:35 PM   #110
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So for an example, our member jeff4946 dynoed at your facility 263rwhp with almost every bolt on mods with a tune. Does that mean he only probably gained 1hp?

So let's just say he lost the most at 16%, then that mean stock he should dyno at your place somewhere close to 262hp right? since 16% of 312 is something like 49.

So how does he only lose 15%-16%? because we know there's no way he only could have made 1hp with all those mods.
I started doing some thinking after your post... Here are some facts. It appears based on the stock automatic #'s below that the auto lost around 25% IF the starting point was 312... We'll have to test a Stock manual sometime to get some real info. Powertrain loss can vary car to car and 15-20% is a generalization but I've found it to be true in most SS applications.

STOCK 2010 Camaro V6 Auto then with an Airaid CAI -230.51 RWHP and 221.48 RWTQ Stock 242.65 RWHP and 228.76 RWTQ w/Airaid ONLY


Stock 2010 Camaro V6 Auto compared to 2010 Camaro V6 Auto with Airaid, Magnaflow Axle-Back, ARH LT's with catted mid section and Trifecta Tune 34.7 RWHP and 37.89 RWTQ Gain - Different Auto V6's however...


jeff4946 (Red) vs. 2010 V6 Manual with Airaid, LS3 cat-back with Magnaflow tru-x, Magnaflow mufflers and VMAX TB - 3 gear pull as it wasn't tuned and we hit the speed limiter in 4th** Power would have been greater in 4th by 5-8 RWHP**


In the above example jeff4946 made more power down low but lost out up top to a lightly modded V6 manual... The auto in graph # 2 made more power than jeff4946 through the auto. Every car is different and that is why you can't say they all make the same power. These test were all run on the same dyno. I'm not sure if jeff4946's Camaro has a mechanical issue or not but it clearly is on the lower side given his mods. I would like to run it again and remove the breather to see if that is causing some issues, I'm not a fan of those personally...

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Old 11-11-2011, 07:43 PM   #111
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I started doing some thinking after your post... Here are some facts. It appears based on the stock automatic #'s below that the auto lost around 25% IF the starting point was 312... We'll have to test a Stock manual sometime to get some real info. Powertrain loss can vary car to car and 15-20% is a generalization but I've found it to be true in most SS applications.

STOCK 2010 Camaro V6 Auto then with an Airaid CAI -230.51 RWHP and 221.48 RWTQ Stock 242.65 RWHP and 228.76 RWTQ w/Airaid ONLY


Stock 2010 Camaro V6 Auto compared to 2010 Camaro V6 Auto with Airaid, Magnaflow Axle-Back, ARH LT's with catted mid section and Trifecta Tune 34.7 RWHP and 37.89 RWTQ Gain - Different Auto V6's however...


jeff4946 (Red) vs. 2010 V6 Manual with Airaid, LS3 cat-back with Magnaflow tru-x, Magnaflow mufflers and VMAX TB - 3 gear pull as it wasn't tuned and we hit the speed limiter in 4th** Power would have been greater in 4th by 5-8 RWHP**


In the above example jeff4946 made more power down low but lost out up top to a lightly modded V6 manual... The auto in graph # 2 made more power than jeff4946 through the auto. Every car is different and that is why you can't say they all make the same power. These test were all run on the same dyno. I'm not sure if jeff4946's Camaro has a mechanical issue or not but it clearly is on the lower side given his mods. I would like to run it again and remove the breather to see if that is causing some issues, I'm not a fan of those personally...

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Well, I got rid of the breather, and im going to rejet,and go aliitle leaner on the fuel side on the nitrous. I would bet the gearing is showing itself there too. Those 3.73s are probably getting the power there in the lower rpms, and fading out up top. I will be down again soon, but I just rolled in, off vacation, so I gotta work another long stretch, and then maybe back down there.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:06 AM   #112
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Well, I got rid of the breather, and im going to rejet,and go aliitle leaner on the fuel side on the nitrous. I would bet the gearing is showing itself there too. Those 3.73s are probably getting the power there in the lower rpms, and fading out up top. I will be down again soon, but I just rolled in, off vacation, so I gotta work another long stretch, and then maybe back down there.
Nice! I was simply showing some comparisons on cars we've done here to answer some questions regarding power differences. Since we didn't do a baseline run on your car 100% stock it is hard to determine how much your mods have give you. I wasn't comparing the NOS run but rather the NA run. The gears shouldn't have any affect on the power through out the RPM band. I know the V6 is very sensitive to velocity and the ported manifold may have some affects as well. VMAX has been testing for awhile now and they're still working on their set up.

Keep me posted and please feel free to call, email or PM me anytime with questions. Have a good one and I'll talk to you soon!

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Old 11-14-2011, 11:38 AM   #113
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I agree that every car is different, even if you dyno'd two stock cars on the same dyno back to back there are going to be HP differences due to build tolerances and also due to how the car is setup on the dyno.

I won't even get into what weather, temps, and altitude can do to HP/TQ numbers as we all know it makes a HUGE difference.

That said you pretty much never see a stock auto dyno over 250rwhp (and thats on the very high end), and assuming these cars are supposed to be making 312 crank HP, that means every one of the autos is losing 20% or more at the wheels. Manuals seem to be in the 16 - 17 % range.

Thats how I tend to view it when I try and calc people's crank HP/TQ numbers based on their wheel numbers
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:50 AM   #114
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It definitely make you wonder though if the GM's 312 crank number is overrated. It seem 250's will come by once in a while and 260's is almost like winning the lottery lol.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:22 PM   #115
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It definitely make you wonder though if the GM's 312 crank number is overrated. It seem 250's will come by once in a while and 260's is almost like winning the lottery lol.
Agreed.

When Chevy said the car actually makes 312 versus the original 304 it was cool because it was more than we thought, but also in my mind dissapointing because that meant the car was losing more power in the drivetrain than we originally thought lol.

Oh wells. Nothing we can do besides take GM's word for it on this one.
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Old 11-14-2011, 04:34 PM   #116
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Nice! I was simply showing some comparisons on cars we've done here to answer some questions regarding power differences. Since we didn't do a baseline run on your car 100% stock it is hard to determine how much your mods have give you. I wasn't comparing the NOS run but rather the NA run. The gears shouldn't have any affect on the power through out the RPM band. I know the V6 is very sensitive to velocity and the ported manifold may have some affects as well. VMAX has been testing for awhile now and they're still working on their set up.

Keep me posted and please feel free to call, email or PM me anytime with questions. Have a good one and I'll talk to you soon!

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
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No problem... In fact, I wasn't questioning the numbers ran on your dyno, at all. I'm wondering more about the list on this thread so far. It does really baffle me on the top Rpms , how I slide off a bit. And I pulled that ported intake OFF the day before we ran it, and haven't put it back on yet. I sent the Data to Vince, and he replied saying it.looked strong, with no adjustments.
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:00 PM   #117
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And now I'm starting to wonder if the computer was maybe still adjusting from the change. What do you think? I was more worried about getting the long tubes on the dyno, and i think I told you, that I had datalogged them, and Vince had told me I had a exhaust leak, from looking at the logs. So, I rewrenced all the bolts, and pulled the intake, before we put it on. I thought I had told you, but I don't remember the conversation. I might have been distracted by your car. I also wanted to help BSR(john) vindicate himself, alittle, if I could get it back on, and prove his work, but i just haven't had any time. He kinda got beat up alittle, and i wasn't digging that to much. So that will also be on, if i can get down there again.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:20 PM   #118
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Airaid V2, MRT V2, BBK LTs w/ high flows, no tune. Only gained 10 hp and no torque. Weird?
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:38 AM   #119
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No problem... In fact, I wasn't questioning the numbers ran on your dyno, at all. I'm wondering more about the list on this thread so far. It does really baffle me on the top Rpms , how I slide off a bit. And I pulled that ported intake OFF the day before we ran it, and haven't put it back on yet. I sent the Data to Vince, and he replied saying it.looked strong, with no adjustments.
That is interesting.. I wonder what the BBK headers are actually making over the stock manifolds or the ARH system...

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And now I'm starting to wonder if the computer was maybe still adjusting from the change. What do you think? I was more worried about getting the long tubes on the dyno, and i think I told you, that I had datalogged them, and Vince had told me I had a exhaust leak, from looking at the logs. So, I rewrenced all the bolts, and pulled the intake, before we put it on. I thought I had told you, but I don't remember the conversation. I might have been distracted by your car. I also wanted to help BSR(john) vindicate himself, alittle, if I could get it back on, and prove his work, but i just haven't had any time. He kinda got beat up alittle, and i wasn't digging that to much. So that will also be on, if i can get down there again.
I don't think the relearning process should have affected anything but next time we'll have to disconnect the battery for a few minutes to see. I'd be interested to see what that intake does HP wise, I know the LLT is very sensitive to velocity.. Just keep me posted, we can get you back in when you have time.

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Airaid V2, MRT V2, BBK LTs w/ high flows, no tune. Only gained 10 hp and no torque. Weird?
You basically made 4 RWHP more than and Airaid CAI only auto we had here. Was that a comparison from no headers to headers? With that said every car is different but our dyno's numbers should be very close to ARD's as DynoJet's seem to be very consistent based on what I've seen.

Run 10 was a V6 with an Airaid, ARH LT's w/cats, Magnaflow axle-back and a Trifecta Tune. The tune didn't add a lot of HP (4 RWHP) but it did add (12 RWTQ) if I remember correctly..


That is interesting though... I haven't used the BBK headers so I don't have any good data there.

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Old 11-16-2011, 07:29 AM   #120
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You basically made 4 RWHP more than and Airaid CAI only auto we had here. Was that a comparison from no headers to headers? With that said every car is different but our dyno's numbers should be very close to ARD's as DynoJet's seem to be very consistent based on what I've seen.

Run 10 was a V6 with an Airaid, ARH LT's w/cats, Magnaflow axle-back and a Trifecta Tune. The tune didn't add a lot of HP (4 RWHP) but it did add (12 RWTQ) if I remember correctly..


That is interesting though... I haven't used the BBK headers so I don't have any good data there.

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Yeah no headers vs headers. Last dyno I ran pre headers was 238hp. 4hp or 10 hp doesn't seem like a lot at all. I got my tune and loaded it but sent him a data log to see if it needs tweaking. I mean it feels more peppy just not as peppy as I exepected, and I definately expected to see a little more on the dyno.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:37 AM   #121
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Yeah no headers vs headers. Last dyno I ran pre headers was 238hp. 4hp or 10 hp doesn't seem like a lot at all. I got my tune and loaded it but sent him a data log to see if it needs tweaking. I mean it feels more peppy just not as peppy as I exepected, and I definately expected to see a little more on the dyno.
you need to also check your AFR.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:41 AM   #122
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Airaid V2, MRT V2, BBK LTs w/ high flows, no tune. Only gained 10 hp and no torque. Weird?

I think this engine needs time to learn as someone else had mentioned. After my 252 dyno I disconnected the battery, drove it for about a 100 miles light driving. After that I drove it real hard. Overall power seemed a better and more low end power. I have no dyno to prove this but when I first picked up the car it did not seem to pull as much or as hard as it does now especially down low. I only drive this car once a week so I can tell there is a difference. Just need to fig out where I am getting a vacuum leak as vince mentioned my fuel trims are whacked even at idle. Just can't seem to find it. but he def said its killing some of my power.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:49 AM   #123
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you need to also check your AFR.
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I think this engine needs time to learn as someone else had mentioned. After my 252 dyno I disconnected the battery, drove it for about a 100 miles light driving. After that I drove it real hard. Overall power seemed a better and more low end power. I have no dyno to prove this but when I first picked up the car it did not seem to pull as much or as hard as it does now especially down low. I only drive this car once a week so I can tell there is a difference. Just need to fig out where I am getting a vacuum leak as vince mentioned my fuel trims are whacked even at idle. Just can't seem to find it. but he def said its killing some of my power.
I have thought about both of these as being options. Once I get my transmission tune figured out and I am going to drive it for awhile and maybe re-dyno later.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:51 AM   #124
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Yeah I know my first dyno after I got my tune tweaked put down about 249 hp /242 ft-lb (40% humidity) and a month later I put down 252 hp at the dyno day and that was with low humidity. So humidity and air density definitely make a big difference.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:07 AM   #125
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Yeah I know my first dyno after I got my tune tweaked put down about 249 hp /242 ft-lb (40% humidity) and a month later I put down 252 hp at the dyno day and that was with low humidity. So humidity and air density definitely make a big difference.
Oh I know.
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dyno numbers for my build are in (cam + nitrous) mark_p Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 5 09-10-2009 10:22 AM


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