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Old 06-18-2011, 06:46 AM   #15
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Excellent post Brett.
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Old 06-18-2011, 07:58 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by TJ91 View Post
got quoted an extra $50 to do this. Does that sound reasonable? Wish I could do this on my driveway.


And thanks soo much for this thread as it is EXTREMELY HELPFUL!!!
That's probably about right...especially if you don't have the means to do it yourself. I would say an extra .5 - 1 hr worth or work.
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Old 06-18-2011, 08:56 AM   #17
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Didn't time mine with the Hotchkis setup or so they said. rides great, no "sticksion" from the bushings or bad ride and full fluid vertical movements. Only std abruptness on bumps from any lowered car with less travel but not much and well cushined from the v6 shocks . Lucky I guess.
The main reason for timing the bushings it to avoid premature wear of the bushings,the improvement in the ride is a good by product of timing the bushing,but not the primary reason to do it.When the oem design a cars suspension it is all based on ride ride hieght.
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Old 06-18-2011, 11:26 AM   #18
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That's probably about right...especially if you don't have the means to do it yourself. I would say an extra .5 - 1 hr worth or work.
thank you very much, ill have them do that then

Now to fix that right front pulsing creek noise
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Old 06-18-2011, 11:36 AM   #19
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Great writeup BMR guy!

And I can attest to the absolute need to "Time" the bushings after a ride height alteration.

I installed the Pfadt drop springs and balance bar on my car last weekend. Today was the day to get the bushings "timed" and the 4 wheel alignment completed.

On my way to the shop for alignment I was beginning to think I'd made a mistake by lowering the car because of the ride quality I was experiencing. I knew there would be a slight trade off of ride compliance for handling improvements but the ride was much more harsh then I'd expected.

Once on the rack for a while, after timing but before aligning, the technician asked me who manufactured the spring package I had and who installed them? I immediately thought something must have been wrong. But to my relief he said that the drop was perfectly square side to side and just right front to back. (slightly lower in front then in back) He stated that the rear settled almost 1/2" after the bushings were timed!

Those bushings must have been under quite a bit of preload to hold the tail of the car up as much as a 1/2"! The tech wanted me to take him for a ride to make sure everything was to my liking before he signed off on the job and as soon as we wheeled out of the parking lot I could tell the difference in the ride quality.

Yes it still rides a bit stiffer then the factory set-up but the harshness that I felt on the way to the shop was gone! I LOVE the way the car looks, feels and takes the curves.

People......... if you alter the ride height of your car, take the time or pay the price to have those bushings "timed". The difference is night and day!

SOLD! Will have them do this for sure.


PS probably going to get shot if you guys knew where I was taking it for an alignment.....FORD yes thats right. Sadly its the only shop I trust around here. Knowing my dealer, theyll make me pay and not even do the work let alone probably damage something else on my car
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:34 PM   #20
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pic looks very similar to the one that i posted a few days ago when one of your customers needed help.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151826
Thats because it was your image that inspired me to write this thread. There is no shame in admitting that. This topic is so misunderstood that a simple picture of the bolts was not enough. It was a great starting point for a more detailed thread. We talk people through this on a daily basis but simply pointing out the bolts doesn't explain the how's or why's, nor what each component is...
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:46 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TJ91 View Post
got quoted an extra $50 to do this. Does that sound reasonable? Wish I could do this on my driveway.


And thanks soo much for this thread as it is EXTREMELY HELPFUL!!!
$50 isn't too bad. It's just a few more bolts to loosen and tighten but it's invaluable when you don't own a lift. I would say go for it.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:29 PM   #22
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Wow, OP, great post!

My only question is, during assembly at the factory, the weight of the car is not on the suspension. Does that mean that, from a performance/longevity standpoint, all vehicles would benefit from "re-clocking" the bushings?
You bring up a good point about the assembly process. You are correct that the weight of the actual car is not on the suspension during assembly however the cradle assemblies have already been assembled with the bolts tightened at a simulated "loaded" suspension angle before the cradle assemblies are bolted to the body. As seen in the image below, the entire driveline and suspension is assembled before it ever gets bolted to the body itself.



I am not sure if production tolerances are tight enough now that they can actually align the suspension before marriage to the body or if this is something they do down the line. Either way, I wouldn't worry about any bushing pre-load from the factory...

Last edited by BMR guy; 06-20-2011 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:06 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by BMR guy View Post
You bring up a good point about the assembly process. You are correct that the weight of the actual car is not on the suspension during assembly however the cradle assemblies have already been assembled with the bolts tightened at a simulated "loaded" suspension angle before the cradle assemblies are bolted to the body. As seen in the image below, the entire driveline and suspension is assembled before it ever gets bolted to the body itself. The fixture can move the suspension to any angle, simulating whatever ride height they want to.

I am not sure if production tolerances are tight enough now that they can actually align the suspension before marriage to the body or if this is something they do down the line. Either way, I wouldn't worry about any bushing pre-load from the factory...
Thanks.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:19 PM   #24
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Bruce's guys at Raymond's did mine about a month ago and I could tell an immediate difference in the quality of the ride. Seems like things smoothed way out, not that it was bad after being lowered but it's a better ride all together! Like it was mentioned, this is the best thing to do to right after ride height has been changed to save any excess wear on the bushings. It makes good sense in that those components were set from the factory with those parts you drove off the lot with, now you've changed those parts and the bushings need to be reset, to allow for adjustment in the changes you've created or made. Thanks for the write up, thanks Bruce and Raymond's and JusticePete for providing info on this some time back on another thread.
Oh yea, I told a buddy of mine who lives in Socal with his lowered Element on Teins and when he went back to Island motors who lowered his car back in 2005, they told him they didn't do it but they could but at this point he wouldn't tell a difference but it'll save some wear. The shop they farm out to, to lower cars said they knew of timing but didn't do it but typically and now, include that in the price of their work when dropping cars now.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:16 AM   #25
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Bruce's guys at Raymond's did mine about a month ago and I could tell an immediate difference in the quality of the ride. Seems like things smoothed way out, not that it was bad after being lowered but it's a better ride all together! Like it was mentioned, this is the best thing to do to right after ride height has been changed to save any excess wear on the bushings. It makes good sense in that those components were set from the factory with those parts you drove off the lot with, now you've changed those parts and the bushings need to be reset, to allow for adjustment in the changes you've created or made. Thanks for the write up, thanks Bruce and Raymond's and JusticePete for providing info on this some time back on another thread.
Oh yea, I told a buddy of mine who lives in Socal with his lowered Element on Teins and when he went back to Island motors who lowered his car back in 2005, they told him they didn't do it but they could but at this point he wouldn't tell a difference but it'll save some wear. The shop they farm out to, to lower cars said they knew of timing but didn't do it but typically and now, include that in the price of their work when dropping cars now.

It's just good practice for any shops that lower vehicles. Shops that just cycle cars in and out and focus on quantity instead of quality will never take the time to do it. This is just one of the things that separates quality shops like Raymonds with your typical in-and-out alignment shop...
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:35 AM   #26
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It's just good practice for any shops that lower vehicles. Shops that just cycle cars in and out and focus on quantity instead of quality will never take the time to do it. This is just one of the things that separates quality shops like Raymonds with your typical in-and-out alignment shop...
Funny! This is the same shigady I try telling the people who make decisions for the Indiana State Police with the quotas we now have. Once we start shooting for numbers (tickets or contacts) over quality arrest and traffic enforcement, we become nothing more than some Podunk P.D. in Backwash USA. Having an officers vacation draw, shift selection and whether or not he gets to drive a new Charger, Mustang or unmarked vehicle over a standard issue Crown Vic can taint a mans judgment to lower his standards and way of thinking. Oh how I digress! Sorry for the rant!

But back on topic, I do understand what you're saying. Funny how this way of thinking can transcend over into other areas. Damn shame!
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:00 PM   #27
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went to get my car timed an aligned yesterday. They had the car up timed the front bushing, started on the rears, then came to me and said they were going to charge an extra 100 because my car was way out of specs. This would be $250 for an alignment! So they stopped as I refused to pay and gave me my car back with damage on all four rims...basterds. Going to another shop today, hope these guys dont try to rip me off either
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Old 06-21-2011, 03:25 PM   #28
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so it all worked out. The shop yesterday timed my front bushings, not sure if they did the rears. Got that done for free because of the incident, went to another shop and got the car aligned and I can tell the difference since getting the bushings reclocked, or atleast the fronts were done for sure. When going over bumps on the highway, I dont have that floating or springing feeling anymore. Thanks for this thread, it literally helped out alot and made my ride so much better!
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