What do we really "know" about the "Z/28"? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

ViperTomcat · 06-20-2011, 01:50 PM

Now..we know that everyone, their mother, sister and dog were convinced that the LSA powered Camaro was going to be the "Z/28". It wasnt, instead GM brought a proper name for a HP monster back from the the dead, the ZL1.

Now people are convinced that GM is still going to make a Z/28, but why? I'm not stirring the pot, calling anyone a fanboy or a liar, I just want to etablish what the Camaro and automotive community (myself being a member of the latter) either know, think they know, suspect or want to have revealed, about the Z/28.

IIRC, we know Fbodfather commented that GM would not put the properly respected and legendary Z/28 name on any car that was not worthy of it.

What is really known about the Z/28? Consider this kind of like the ZL1's "FAQS AND FACTS" thread.

toehead93 · 06-20-2011, 01:54 PM

I think it is safe to say that GM will make a Z28. I just don't think it will be as soon as some hope. I truley believe the Z28 will come in the 6th gen form with a high reving, race inspired 5.5L V8 (DI & VVT) that I keep reading about. The 6th gen will also be much lighter than the current platform. Add on the typical suspension and braking upgrades, similar to the 302 Boss and the Z28 is a winner...and one worth waiting for, IMHO.

I know nothing I posted is fact, but it is fact that GM is working on a 5.5L V8 for the Corvette. I dont't think Camaro sales are going to fall off without a Boss compeitor, the SS and ZL1 will have enough momentum to carry the out the 5th duties on their own. Then GM can do it right with the lightweight Z28.

ViperTomcat · 06-20-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toehead93

I know nothing I posted is fact, but it is fact that GM is working on a 5.5L V8 for the Corvette.

Which will more than likely mean a 5.5L powered Z/28 would now bow until the beginning of the 6th generation Camaro. Traditionally all new advancements and technology appears in the Corvette a full two years before they appear in anything else.

If, and this is a big if, the 5.5L engine comes out late next year (with the C7 Corvette) that could indicate a 2014 premier for the Z/28 with a 5.5L.

MillerTime · 06-20-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

Which will more than likely mean a 5.5L powered Z/28 would now bow until the beginning of the 6th generation Camaro. Traditionally all new advancements and technology appears in the Corvette a full two years before they appear in anything else.

If, and this is a big if, the 5.5L engine comes out late next year (with the C7 Corvette) that could indicate a 2014 premier for the Z/28 with a 5.5L.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toehead93

I think it is safe to say that GM will make a Z28. I just don't think it will be as soon as some hope. I truley believe the Z28 will come in the 6th gen form with a high reving, race inspired 5.5L V8 (DI & VVT) that I keep reading about. The 6th gen will also be much lighter than the current platform. Add on the typical suspension and braking upgrades, similar to the 302 Boss and the Z28 is a winner...and one worth waiting for, IMHO.

I know nothing I posted is fact, but it is fact that GM is working on a 5.5L V8 for the Corvette. I dont't think Camaro sales are going to fall off without a Boss compeitor, the SS and ZL1 will have enough momentum to carry the out the 5th duties on their own. Then GM can do it right with the lightweight Z28.

LOWDOWN · 06-20-2011, 05:27 PM

First of all by what definition, and based loosely on which Generation, constitutes the aforesaid "worthy Z/28"?

I've had personal experience with both a Gen-1 '68 and a Gen-2 '73 Z/28. I've had experience with Gen-3 and -4 T/As. I've also had a Gen-5 Camaro. All have their own particular "flavor", but to me a "Z/28" is less about all-out 1/4-mile performance as opposed to a more fully "balanced" experience with a road-racy bent. Turn the 'wheel and the car turns now...and sticks. Stop with a capital S. Equal to, or better than, any comparable Pony car in the marketplace.

That was what Ford devised and defined when their response, the BOSS 302, appeared in '69. And that is what their version is, now. But Ford has had several years of GT 500 experience in the marketplace to saturate their heritaged high-margin 1/4-mile king, and therefore a more "matured" buyer body to listen to, and respond to...and, to their credit, they have! "The BOSS is Back!"

What can be done to a Gen-5 SS to make it quickly/readily marketable at a price between the SS and ZL1, while being at least an equal to the BOSS? And, as the sunset of Gen-5 quickly approaches, is there the time, the will, and the business case to see a Gen-5 version arrive, thrive, and prosper? Or, is there fear that a "proper Z/28" will, in fact, cannibalize ZL1 sales? Near- or equal-to-ZL1 track numbers with superior "feel" at a "bargain-basement" price-point?

As to a "recipe" for a Gen-5 Z/28, that has been beat to death...with the quickest, most cost-effective version likely housing such things as FE4, wet-sump'd LS7, ZL1 driveline (excluding MR) and brakes and wheels/tires, on an option-limited, batch-built basis for something around $45K. With an almost 8 lb. to ft-lb. ratio, handily beating the BOSS's 9.5...

Gen-5 engine in a Gen-5 chassis? Only if the final product's pounds per ft-lb. is less than 9, which, in a 3800 lb+ Gen-5 Camaro, means the normally aspirated Gen-5 V8 must produce more than 425 ft-lb of torque...and I doubt, if a 5.5 L version is the best they have, that will be the case. Seems to me a Gen-5 V8 is best suited to a "Jenny Craig'd" Alpha Gen-6 Camaro, anticipated at something in the 35-3600 lb area as an n/a V8 version (similar to the current Mustang).

Now if the Gen-5 engine is, in fact, 6.2 L, then 425 ft-lb will be no problem...the current LS3 is 420, and DI will add "grunt".

Sources thusfar have warned us not to confuse the C6-R's 5.5 L V8 as being production-specific as far as displacement...

So what do we REALLY know about a resurrected Z/28? Not much...but DO "stay tuned"...

ShnOmac · 06-20-2011, 06:16 PM

What we know for sure....

NOTHING!

LOWDOWN · 06-20-2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

What we know for sure....

NOTHING!

That's not exactly true...is it?

A "Z/28" WILL BE:

1) A Camaro

2) Performance-oriented towards handling/braking beyond mere SS standards

3) Regarded as a "halo" for folks not seeking Super Stock status

4) A strong seller

5) A worthy BOSS-beater!

...or it simply will NOT exist under that name...

ShnOmac · 06-20-2011, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

That's not exactly true...is it?

A "Z/28" WILL BE:

1) A Camaro

2) Performance-oriented towards handling/braking beyond mere SS standards

3) Regarded as a "halo" for folks not seeking Super Stock status

4) A strong seller

5) A worthy BOSS-beater!

...or it simply will NOT exist under that name...

You know what I meant...

*DGthe3* · 06-21-2011, 03:12 AM

In short, we know absolutely nothing about the Z28. Everything is what we'd like to see, but we don't even know if something resembling our 'vision' of a zedder will actually be built on the Zeta/5th Gen platform. And if we don't know the 'if' then we certainly don't know the 'what'

Revo1 · 06-21-2011, 02:43 PM

All we really KNOW is that GM has given no indication that there will be one... :/

2cnd chance · 06-21-2011, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z284ever

What we know "for sure" is......

1) Please, please, please, everyone stop bringing up the 5.5L. That displacement is not destined for production.

2) GM is VERY interested in a proper Z/28. I was essentially told that directly. Thank you Boss.

3) GM feels that a 4100 pound, supercharged, (now with available automatic trans - of all things), pacakage is not what they want to put a Z/28 emblem on to.

Number 3,
This post made me very happy.

2cnd chance · 06-21-2011, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revo1

All we really KNOW is that GM has given no indication that there will be one... :/

Only if you read between the lines.
____________________________
__________Z28_______________

Number 3 · 06-21-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Number 3,
This post made me very happy.

As it should...............I've said it before if any one posting in this thread or others on the mythical Z/28 that believes GM isn't also thinking about it, well I have a bridge to sell you. LOL

Of course GM is very interested.

Experience tells me that doesn't mean it will happen.:(

kiteman · 06-21-2011, 05:45 PM

when is the 6th gen expected to debut?

2cnd chance · 06-21-2011, 06:02 PM

^right on time

*DGthe3* · 06-21-2011, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiteman

when is the 6th gen expected to debut?

2015-ish

LOWDOWN · 06-22-2011, 02:06 PM

So, for a Gen-5 Zee to be realized, time's a-wastin'...

2cnd chance · 06-22-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

So, for a Gen-5 Zee to be realized, time's a-wastin'...

Very true.

Every Gen had a Z28, so should the 5Gen.
I say let the 5Gen and the LS7 go out with a bang!!! Build a LS7/Z28 or a Z28/LS7 either works for me.

2cnd chance · 06-22-2011, 04:26 PM

Oh and 1 very true fact about the Z28 is; I want one.

SwiftDream · 06-23-2011, 02:00 AM

I guess Im just naive or something, but I cant believe the 5th generation is only going to be 5 years when the last 3 were 10+ years, kinda sucks IMO.

midnighter · 06-23-2011, 02:17 AM

Not to sound pessimistic but perhaps the Z-28 will be Chevy's mid-range Camaro model to compete with the Challenger R/T and the Mustang GT. A smaller V8 motor, a little less hp, and bigger fuel economy.

LOWDOWN · 06-23-2011, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midnighter

Not to sound pessimistic but perhaps the Z-28 will be Chevy's mid-range Camaro model to compete with the Challenger R/T and the Mustang GT. A smaller V8 motor, a little less hp, and bigger fuel economy.

I think I just messed myself...

Gosh, the thoughts of a Silverado-inspired 5.3 have me... apoplectic...

Wait, there's always the 4.8...or maybe we just need better Windex for the crystal ball.

Mikes SS · 06-23-2011, 08:37 AM

A DI 5.3 will work perfectly in "my" Z28. And since i know that GM cares about the heritage and enthusiast side of the house, i know they wont disappoint! Clamour on all you want about the LS7, with that it makes an already hardly possible version of the camaro even more expensive and less possible. Get your heads out of the clouds!!

2cnd chance · 06-23-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midnighter

Not to sound pessimistic but perhaps the Z-28 will be Chevy's mid-range Camaro model to compete with the Challenger R/T and the Mustang GT. A smaller V8 motor, a little less hp, and bigger fuel economy.

Wow really?!

I mean really???

2cnd chance · 06-23-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikes SS

A DI 5.3 will work perfectly in "my" Z28. And since i know that GM cares about the heritage and enthusiast side of the house, i know they wont disappoint! Clamour on all you want about the LS7, with that it makes an already hardly possible version of the camaro even more expensive and less possible. Get your heads out of the clouds!!

Not in' the clouds. If you look at other Z28 threads good arguments are made supporting the LS7.

06-20-2011, 01:50 PM	#1
ViperTomcat Banned Drives: 2011 Avenger Heat Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,705	What do we really "know" about the "Z/28"? Now..we know that everyone, their mother, sister and dog were convinced that the LSA powered Camaro was going to be the "Z/28". It wasnt, instead GM brought a proper name for a HP monster back from the the dead, the ZL1. Now people are convinced that GM is still going to make a Z/28, but why? I'm not stirring the pot, calling anyone a fanboy or a liar, I just want to etablish what the Camaro and automotive community (myself being a member of the latter) either know, think they know, suspect or want to have revealed, about the Z/28. IIRC, we know Fbodfather commented that GM would not put the properly respected and legendary Z/28 name on any car that was not worthy of it. What is really known about the Z/28? Consider this kind of like the ZL1's "FAQS AND FACTS" thread.

06-20-2011, 01:54 PM	#2
toehead93 Drives: 2010 SS, 1993 Z28 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: wpb fl Posts: 2,027 View My Garage	I think it is safe to say that GM will make a Z28. I just don't think it will be as soon as some hope. I truley believe the Z28 will come in the 6th gen form with a high reving, race inspired 5.5L V8 (DI & VVT) that I keep reading about. The 6th gen will also be much lighter than the current platform. Add on the typical suspension and braking upgrades, similar to the 302 Boss and the Z28 is a winner...and one worth waiting for, IMHO. I know nothing I posted is fact, but it is fact that GM is working on a 5.5L V8 for the Corvette. I dont't think Camaro sales are going to fall off without a Boss compeitor, the SS and ZL1 will have enough momentum to carry the out the 5th duties on their own. Then GM can do it right with the lightweight Z28. __________________ 2SS A6 Black 360 RWHP/382 FTLBS - tune only Mods on: Dynatech LTs, Vararam Intake, Pedders Xa's, DiabloSport tuned

06-20-2011, 05:27 PM	#5
LOWDOWN Downright Upright Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cruisin'... Posts: 3,245	First of all by what definition, and based loosely on which Generation, constitutes the aforesaid "worthy Z/28"? I've had personal experience with both a Gen-1 '68 and a Gen-2 '73 Z/28. I've had experience with Gen-3 and -4 T/As. I've also had a Gen-5 Camaro. All have their own particular "flavor", but to me a "Z/28" is less about all-out 1/4-mile performance as opposed to a more fully "balanced" experience with a road-racy bent. Turn the 'wheel and the car turns now...and sticks. Stop with a capital S. Equal to, or better than, any comparable Pony car in the marketplace. That was what Ford devised and defined when their response, the BOSS 302, appeared in '69. And that is what their version is, now. But Ford has had several years of GT 500 experience in the marketplace to saturate their heritaged high-margin 1/4-mile king, and therefore a more "matured" buyer body to listen to, and respond to...and, to their credit, they have! "The BOSS is Back!" What can be done to a Gen-5 SS to make it quickly/readily marketable at a price between the SS and ZL1, while being at least an equal to the BOSS? And, as the sunset of Gen-5 quickly approaches, is there the time, the will, and the business case to see a Gen-5 version arrive, thrive, and prosper? Or, is there fear that a "proper Z/28" will, in fact, cannibalize ZL1 sales? Near- or equal-to-ZL1 track numbers with superior "feel" at a "bargain-basement" price-point? As to a "recipe" for a Gen-5 Z/28, that has been beat to death...with the quickest, most cost-effective version likely housing such things as FE4, wet-sump'd LS7, ZL1 driveline (excluding MR) and brakes and wheels/tires, on an option-limited, batch-built basis for something around $45K. With an almost 8 lb. to ft-lb. ratio, handily beating the BOSS's 9.5... Gen-5 engine in a Gen-5 chassis? Only if the final product's pounds per ft-lb. is less than 9, which, in a 3800 lb+ Gen-5 Camaro, means the normally aspirated Gen-5 V8 must produce more than 425 ft-lb of torque...and I doubt, if a 5.5 L version is the best they have, that will be the case. Seems to me a Gen-5 V8 is best suited to a "Jenny Craig'd" Alpha Gen-6 Camaro, anticipated at something in the 35-3600 lb area as an n/a V8 version (similar to the current Mustang). Now if the Gen-5 engine is, in fact, 6.2 L, then 425 ft-lb will be no problem...the current LS3 is 420, and DI will add "grunt". Sources thusfar have warned us not to confuse the C6-R's 5.5 L V8 as being production-specific as far as displacement... So what do we REALLY know about a resurrected Z/28? Not much...but DO "stay tuned"... __________________ . *"It's what you learn, after* you know everything, that's really important" ... Sam Foose . "NOTHING matters...until you CARE"** ... and that's a LOWDOWN Truth "GOOD ENOUGH"...NEVER IS - Debbi Fields. *"STAY TUNED"* Last edited by LOWDOWN; 06-20-2011 at 05:39 PM.

06-21-2011, 03:12 AM	#9
DGthe3 Moderator.ca Drives: 05 Grand Am GT Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Niagara, Canada Posts: 20,712	In short, we know absolutely nothing about the Z28. Everything is what we'd like to see, but we don't even know if something resembling our 'vision' of a zedder will actually be built on the Zeta/5th Gen platform. And if we don't know the 'if' then we certainly don't know the 'what' __________________ Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them __________________ Quote: In 2014 the camaro will have ... a twin turbo v6 ... around 350 to 360HP No. Let me repeat that. No. FbodFather __________________ Camaro5 Fest III Information Camaro5 Fest III pre-registration

06-21-2011, 02:43 PM	#10
Revo1 Camaronogamous Drives: 2010/2002 Camaro SS! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 14,688 View My Garage	All we really KNOW is that GM has given no indication that there will be one... :/ __________________ "Tops off, tach up baby- loud and proud!" A Camaro lover from day one- 1996 3.8 V6 Camaro, to 1996 5.7 LT1 Camaro Z28, to the sold 2002 5.7 LS1 Camaro SS, and NOW, a [I]6.2 L99 VR 2SS/RS: XS Power stainless full exhaust, Airaid CAI, BMR drop springs and sways, custom tune by Cal Speed- 411rwhp

06-20-2011, 06:16 PM	#6
ShnOmac Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: WA Posts: 11,934	What we know for sure.... *NOTHING!*

06-21-2011, 05:45 PM	#14
kiteman Drives: 2012 45th Camaro, 2SS/M6 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: At my computer Posts: 1,146	when is the 6th gen expected to debut?

06-21-2011, 06:02 PM	#15
2cnd chance It Will Be Mine Drives: A 2014 Z28 or a C7? Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Atlanta Posts: 4,254	^right on time

06-22-2011, 02:06 PM	#17
LOWDOWN Downright Upright Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cruisin'... Posts: 3,245	So, for a Gen-5 Zee to be realized, time's a-wastin'... __________________ . *"It's what you learn, after* you know everything, that's really important" ... Sam Foose . "NOTHING matters...until you CARE"** ... and that's a LOWDOWN Truth "GOOD ENOUGH"...NEVER IS - Debbi Fields. *"STAY TUNED"*

06-22-2011, 04:26 PM	#19
2cnd chance It Will Be Mine Drives: A 2014 Z28 or a C7? Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Atlanta Posts: 4,254	Oh and 1 very true fact about the Z28 is; I want one.

06-23-2011, 02:00 AM	#20
SwiftDream Currently Dreaming Drives: '08 Grand Prix Join Date: May 2011 Location: Liverpool, NY Posts: 205	I guess Im just naive or something, but I cant believe the 5th generation is only going to be 5 years when the last 3 were 10+ years, kinda sucks IMO. __________________

06-23-2011, 02:17 AM	#21
midnighter Drives: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS 6M Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: CA Posts: 18,185	Not to sound pessimistic but perhaps the Z-28 will be Chevy's mid-range Camaro model to compete with the Challenger R/T and the Mustang GT. A smaller V8 motor, a little less hp, and bigger fuel economy. __________________

06-23-2011, 08:37 AM	#23
Mikes SS Drives: '10 CGM 2SS/RS 6M Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Va Beach, VA Posts: 748 View My Garage	A DI 5.3 will work perfectly in "my" Z28. And since i know that GM cares about the heritage and enthusiast side of the house, i know they wont disappoint! Clamour on all you want about the LS7, with that it makes an already hardly possible version of the camaro even more expensive and less possible. Get your heads out of the clouds!!

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