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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 06-27-2011, 09:51 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
Took me awhile to find this:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=149090&page=2

...post #26...admittedly, one of manymanymany of value by Number 3 on this topic which, to me, sez "some thought" is certainly being given...by all manner of folks within AND beyond GM.

To that list I previously gave (above), add ZL1 Brakes...and "Laguna Seca" money would get you a BOSS-Basher...IMHO

Let me throw this out: Who would rather have a 505/470 LS7, and who would rather have a 450/440 "hot" LS3 for $5,000 less? All other things being equal...including Curb Weight.

'Cause, no matter what you do to an LS3, it will NOT = an LS7 from the assemblyline...and the more you modify an LS3, the closer you get, in co$t$, to an LS7, which only makes the LS7 more sensible...

As stated by Number 3, "Business Case required"...
Thanks LOWDOWN!

It's so simple if, I say if there is a chance of getting a 5Gen Z28 it has to use ready made parts. Time is of the essence. I would like to see a 5Gen Z28, it is the only generation without the icon available. It is a very different car than the ZL1. It can be marketed differently. It fills a rather large pricepoint gap. To simplify the makeup of the Z28 take a 1SS add an LS7, FE4 Suspension, ZL1 - Brakes, Transmission, Rearend, Exhaust, Wheels, Tires...Stir... and Serve

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Old 06-28-2011, 07:03 AM   #52
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All I know is that any chevrolet can be an SS. Only one can be a Z28!!!!
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Old 06-28-2011, 05:58 PM   #53
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All I know is that any chevrolet can be an SS. Only one can be a Z28!!!!
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:31 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Mikes SS
That is not how they price the 2lt from the 2SS. There is an 8 grand difference and the only difference is engine and tranny.





According to the Chevy website it is a $7,000.00 difference in price. Some of the differences mentioned are: engine, transmission, differential, brakes, suspension, exhaust, rear spoiler, wheels, tires...
Pretty much priced rationally with the added content. Brembo brakes alone might be pushing $1,000??

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All I know is that any chevrolet can be an SS. Only one can be a Z28!!!!
Amen!
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:46 AM   #55
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Gawd, Gibby, NOW yer gittin' with the PROGRAM!

Fact is, from GM PP, the crate-engine difference is about $7,000...with faaaar more profit made when they ring up an LS7 than an LS3...

Seriously, with deference to Number 3, if Ford can sell out 4000 BOSS ponies at low-mid-$40s, I suspect GM can sell MORE LS7-engined, option-careful, non-MR, ZL1-enhanced driveline'd/wheel'd/tire'd/brake'd thoroughbreds...for about the same dough...and SMILE all the way to the BANK!

Mike, your 1000-unit number would be the number of deposits, Day 1, for orders of our "favorite" Camaro...
WOW man you are in fantasy land! Don't get me wrong what you just described would be the ULTIMATE Camaro to me.......fact is it will never happen especially at that price point. If GM ever put the LS7 in the new Camaros it would have been with the ZL1 badge on it and we see where that went. GM knows what they have with the LS7 and LSA engines. The LSA is built to make a certain amount of power and not much more. The LS7 has so much more potential it is unbelievable. You can easily make 650+ hp with Cam and ported heads on the LS7. I honestly think GM will never put the engine that is in that years Z06 into a Camaro. (IE 427(1969 only came in COPO cars), LT5(ZR1), LS6, LS7)

It would make it hard to sell a car for 75K when you can buy a car with the SAME engine for 25k less. (Doesn't matter how many carbon fiber panels it has.)
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:39 AM   #56
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While I agree that you will only find the LS7 Camaro in Fantasy Land I disagree with your resoning why. If you are going to compare the Camaro lineup to the Corvette lineup for badging then the LS7 mates perfectly to the Z28 name as Z28 equals Z06 in GMs eyes. The ZL1 is the Camaro equivalent of the ZR1 for GM. We can't keep going back to the 60's to determine how the Camaro should be sold today. As GM proved by naming ZL1 as it did; lets leave the 60s for the historians

And a Z28 LS7 Camaro will never pull too many buyers away from the Z06. Come on, it is practically a freaking supercar, the Camaro a completey different category of sports car. If your reasoning was true everyone who wants an LS7 Z06 would just by and SS for $33k and drop in the LS7 for less than $10k...really???
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:17 PM   #57
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By the time the Chicago Show opened, and the "exciting new ultra-performance Camaro" was announced, Ford had revealed their BOSS which, previous to its announcement, was kind of a well-guarded secret. Two things became apparent:

1) The "Z/28" suddenly became the ZL1, THE most powerful version, historically, to roll out of a GM facility. NOT necessarily the most canyon-friendly version, and NOT with the same "heritage" as the Z/28.

2) There was/is NO Gen-5 Z/28. What could/should that vehicle be, based on "production-ready, certified/validated (in some GM vehicle or other) GM components"? And, with development fully underway for the ZL1, suddenly there are NEW Camaro-specific parts 'n pieces to pick from...some from CTS-V...some from Corvette...some from Australia...and, doubtless, some we don't know about...

Based on these "facts", what constitutes the best bang for the buck, the least amount of effort for the most impact, the best return on GM's inve$tment, and, ultimately, the most saleable version to bridge the price-gap between 2SS and ZL1 while being "price-competitive" to other offerings (read: BOSS) in the marketplace?

Business Case: How many, @ how much profit, @ how many anticipated conquests AND tempered by what cost to existing Camaro sales (if any).
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:42 AM   #58
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All I know is that any chevrolet can be an SS. Only one can be a Z28!!!!
So far, that really does just about sum everything that we KNOW absolutely sure for a fact about the Z28. Speculation is just that - a wild guess.
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:51 PM   #59
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:33 AM   #60
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WOW man you are in fantasy land! Don't get me wrong what you just described would be the ULTIMATE Camaro to me.......fact is it will never happen especially at that price point. If GM ever put the LS7 in the new Camaros it would have been with the ZL1 badge on it and we see where that went. GM knows what they have with the LS7 and LSA engines. The LSA is built to make a certain amount of power and not much more. The LS7 has so much more potential it is unbelievable. You can easily make 650+ hp with Cam and ported heads on the LS7. I honestly think GM will never put the engine that is in that years Z06 into a Camaro. (IE 427(1969 only came in COPO cars), LT5(ZR1), LS6, LS7)

It would make it hard to sell a car for 75K when you can buy a car with the SAME engine for 25k less. (Doesn't matter how many carbon fiber panels it has.)
While your logic has merit, they are doing basically that with the SS and base corvette. Seems like a 490hp Camaro would work well with the current model architecture.
If they want to beat Ford and win some brand loyalty, they need to target each model. So far, so good.
I don't see a real weight change, so power and tires would go a long way.
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Old 07-31-2011, 09:55 PM   #61
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I think GM should have gone with the Challenger SRT8 approuch "ONLY Z/28 THE FIRST YEAR - ONLY 6.2L 550HP" Then second year released the RS v6 and SS v8. The Z/28 should always be the top of the lot, then if you want a real monster SLP converts it into a ZL1. It is the "better fuel economy" line that I get hung up on, save the fuel economy for the v6's give me . . . . MORE POWER !

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Old 08-09-2011, 09:35 AM   #62
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I didn't understand how those were looking for a z/28 when the SS I thought was considered a higher end model in the previous gen.

I didn't think they would be bring back the z28 name. This zl1 looks mean. I hope they sell that front end and hood as aftermarket parts.
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:04 AM   #63
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Rogan, if you consider the "Gen-1 Heritage" present in the design and (so far) naming of the current Camaro, there's only TWO names (in total) missing. They've used RS, and SS, and "ZL1" (technically NOT a Gen-1 Model name, but an engine nomeclature), and Pace Car. They have NOT used COPO in a Production version (but have in a SEMA '08 concept), and they have NOT used "Z/28"...although until the 11th hour, we were all pretty sure that's what the ZL1 would be.

In Gen-1, a Z/28 became the most consumer-friendly iconic Camaro badge. Witness any current car show, and the plethora of '69 Camaros, ALL badged as Z/28s it seems... ICONIC. Stood for "high-revvin', sweet-handlin', stick-only Hugger-machine"! Ditto Gen-2 (kinda). Best handler, Gen-3, and then bastardized as an IROC. Gen-4, Base V8...like an SS is today...

Gen-5 offers the opportunity to return the Z/28 to its rightful place in history: "high-revvin', sweet-handlin', stick-only Hugger-machine"! And to do that, take a 1SS, add ZL1 HD driveline/brakes/wheels-tires/enhanced FE4...and a high-revvin' LS7...DONE! Bridges the price gap between 2SS and ZL1, plugs the hole created by the BOSS, makes 1,000s happy, makes GM $1,000s/unit, and basically does through GM what many aftermarket companies have been doing for 2 years...increasing the fun quotient of the Camaro!
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:01 AM   #64
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Quote:
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I didn't understand how those were looking for a z/28 when the SS I thought was considered a higher end model in the previous gen.

I didn't think they would be bring back the z28 name. This zl1 looks mean. I hope they sell that front end and hood as aftermarket parts.
Of the 243,085 Camaros made in 1969, 20,302 were Z/28's. That 20,302 has grown at least two fold with all of the clones in today's world.

I really hope the hood stays as a ZL1 item only.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:31 PM   #65
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Quote:
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I didn't understand how those were looking for a z/28 when the SS I thought was considered a higher end model in the previous gen.

I didn't think they would be bring back the z28 name. This zl1 looks mean. I hope they sell that front end and hood as aftermarket parts.
The top performing Camaro that GM built in the 4th gen was the Z28. SS's rolled off the line as a Z28, and then got a few mods done by SLP and were then sold as SS's through Chevy's dealership network.
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:24 PM   #66
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I really hope the hood stays as a ZL1 item only.
Yea, I'd be more for something like the '80 Z/28 functional hood scoop.
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:37 PM   #67
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As Justice Pete has reminded us, a "problem" for consistent engine performance is underhood heat, whether n/a or boosted. Some form of lightened extractor hood would assist in THREE areas: weight reduction AND heat extraction AND "Model identification". Something similar to the "Leno hood" (see my avatar), made from SMC or c/f, would suffice. I, personally, am NOT a fan of the ZL1 hood design...too cluttered.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:57 PM   #68
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I didn't understand how those were looking for a z/28 when the SS I thought was considered a higher end model in the previous gen.

I didn't think they would be bring back the z28 name. This zl1 looks mean. I hope they sell that front end and hood as aftermarket parts.
You've already gotten some good answers with lots of factual information. Whether SS or Z/28 should be "top dog" has been argued incessantly since the late '60s, but more so since the advent of the internet. Having been there back in the day when I bought a new '69 Z/28, I'll let an old friend of mine speak from back in 1970, he had several friends that all had Z/28s and had ridden in all of them and driven a couple, upon purchasing a brand new GTO "Judge" he stated "I'm not worried about any SS Camaros or SS Chevelles, but you can bet I won't be messing with any Z/28s!".
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:26 PM   #69
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Not trying to stir the pot, I don't think you will see a Z28... The ZL1 for all intents is the Z28 but in a different direction away from the z28 name. I never got or get the mystique of the Z28, for me it's the SS.

Secondly there is not a chance in a hell the Camaro will get the technology(5.5L DI engine). The Corvette is the top of the line. Does the Camaro have the LS7 or LS9? No because the Vette is their staging ground for their top end performance technology. If your waiting for that engine, it would be some time after the Vette gets it. Just my 2 cents
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:53 PM   #70
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just the fact that there is a ZL1 proves there will be a Z28... think about it before you respond.
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:56 PM   #71
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just the fact that there is a ZL1 proves there will be a Z28... think about it before you respond.
I like the way you think.
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:33 AM   #72
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I like the way you think.
Ditto
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:49 AM   #73
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I'm still of the opinion that sales of ZL1s will be lackluster considering what price range they'll have to sell for. The Z28 will be reborn, it's just a matter of timing with the Gen6. Mustang has committed it's 2015 model as the next generation. You would think GM would wait a year to make final touches to the Gen6, thus being a 2016 model. That leaves 3 model years for Gen5; 2013,2014,2015. I have to believe the Z28 will make its debut in the 2014 model year.
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:29 AM   #74
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GM, as we all know, had tremendous difficulties to overcome just as the Camaro was to commence building. Development of performance models was slowed (hell, development of everything was slowed!). But plans were in place for an ultra-performance version to compete head-to-head with Brand F's version. What we now know as ZL1. Which, by its very timing, is proof of manpower/funding issues.

What is not known, publicly, is what firm plans there were for "something in between" the SS and the now-ZL1. A not-so-inconsequential 40%! With the announcement of the BOSS, whatever plans there were/are must have been dusted off and/or resusitated and/or accelerated. And what would that car's name have to be?

Only one answer...

...which creates one more question...

When?

The "rest of the story", I have full confidence, will play out, properly featured/equipped. Properly positioned/priced...

Because, as we have been reminded, "any car can be an SS, but only ONE deserves to be called Z/28"...

And that, my friends, is the lowdown truth as I see it!
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:50 AM   #75
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Another fact is that anyone with an understanding of marketing knows you can't separate products too far in pricing.

Example Camaro $25K V6 - $31K SS - ? - $50K ZL1

There has to be an easy step up if you will to the next product to get the customer to stretch to the next pricepoint. In the example cited do you see anything missing?
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