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Old 09-24-2011, 09:38 AM   #86
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1) Why wait for the "politics" of DI as a Camaro application to play out? Lost opportunities... There's only so much time left for the Gen-5 (thru MY '15?), and we still have to launch the ZEE after a successful ZL1 launch. Time's a-wastin'...and a DI 6.2 = LS7 in power. LS7 is ready-willing-able...and so is Wixom...

2) SCCA-approved means MR an option...and an enhanced FE4 standard...

3) The "best" aero will be required for the near-200 mph ZL1. Added downforce from doodads will "marginalize" and/or polarize the appearance, if standard, while needlessly driving up the price point for most. Make a Downforce Package as part of a Track-Ready "option"...Coolers/SSX Wing/splitter-canards etc. Not all BOSSes are LSes...and NOT all Z/28s should/need to be Track-Ready... Maybe GMPP will need to be your "new best friend"...or Pratt & Miller...

Even in the Z/28's brightest heritage days, circa '69, the spoilers only that year were made standard...and the Super Scoop hood was standard, late-production '69. Cross Rams/headers/off-road cam/4WDB were largely Parts Department issue (yes, available as an RPO, but most were upgraded after-sale). There is "history" to suggest "after-sale upgrades" made/make sense for those-only, so-inclined...

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Old 09-24-2011, 01:25 PM   #87
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1) Why wait for the "politics" of DI as a Camaro application to play out? Lost opportunities... There's only so much time left for the Gen-5 (thru MY '15?), and we still have to launch the ZEE after a successful ZL1 launch. Time's a-wastin'...and a DI 6.2 = LS7 in power. LS7 is ready-willing-able...and so is Wixom...

2) SCCA-approved means MR an option...and an enhanced FE4 standard...

3) The "best" aero will be required for the near-200 mph ZL1. Added downforce from doodads will "marginalize" and/or polarize the appearance, if standard, while needlessly driving up the price point for most. Make a Downforce Package as part of a Track-Ready "option"...Coolers/SSX Wing/splitter-canards etc. Not all BOSSes are LSes...and NOT all Z/28s should/need to be Track-Ready... Maybe GMPP will need to be your "new best friend"...or Pratt & Miller...

Even in the Z/28's brightest heritage days, circa '69, the spoilers only that year were made standard...and the Super Scoop hood was standard, late-production '69. Cross Rams/headers/off-road cam/4WDB were largely Parts Department issue (yes, available as an RPO, but most were upgraded after-sale). There is "history" to suggest "after-sale upgrades" made/make sense for those-only, so-inclined...
And one needs only to go back and read articles written by Chevy engineer Valkenburg to see that the '67-'69 front and rear spoilers worked well at highway speeds, not just racetrack speeds, they corrected handling issues at 60mph and up. Chevrolet needs to get on the ball and have a quality Z/28 ready to roll out in short order.
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Old 09-24-2011, 05:06 PM   #88
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In watching different types of GT racing noticing the Mustang FR's becoming salable Boss's. Just think of the opportunity for GM to see the Camaro GS's become salable Z28's. Hopefully this will not be a lost opportunity. Where's the 5Gen Z28???
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:09 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
1) Why wait for the "politics" of DI as a Camaro application to play out? Lost opportunities... There's only so much time left for the Gen-5 (thru MY '15?), and we still have to launch the ZEE after a successful ZL1 launch. Time's a-wastin'...and a DI 6.2 = LS7 in power. LS7 is ready-willing-able...and so is Wixom...
The politics of DI? If I'm not mistaken last I heard the DI was going to be released with the new vette. and isn't the C7 due out next year? by the time the Z would come out it would have been in the C7 (MY 2013) almost a full year. so politics aside. . .the DI 6.2 with thicker walls and lower cost of build will lower the cost of the Zee. I don't understand the fascination with the LS7. it's a great engine. just see more potential in the future of DI. Correction: The C7 will be a 2014 MY will debut in 2013. even with that the DI used could still be given to a Z28 pushed out the door shortly after the release. info here meaning testing for such engine is already underway for the vette. the ZL1 will be on the streets for a year before a possible Z28. and it is quite possible for the DI v8 to be put into a Z28.

As for the suspension as long as I can get an SCCA spec car I'm cool. let MR be optional. more options gives more buyers what they want.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.

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Old 09-24-2011, 08:37 PM   #90
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just the fact that there is a ZL1 proves there will be a Z28... think about it before you respond.

Me thinks you are right.....but if they were both out right now Z-28 and ZL1, I would still buy the ZL1. So far the ZL-1 looks like a beast...and I'm the Beastmaster
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:14 PM   #91
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Sorry don't want to wait for a DI engine. I want a 5Gen Z28 as soon as possible. The LS7 fits the Z28 model perfectly. There will be a DI 6Gen I'm sure. .
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:00 AM   #92
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Sorry don't want to wait for a DI engine. I want a 5Gen Z28 as soon as possible. The LS7 fits the Z28 model perfectly. There will be a DI 6Gen I'm sure. .
lol. this honestly makes me laugh. If the Vette has it for MY 2013 (sometime next year), and we have to wait half to a year after the ZL1 deput then it is quite possible to see a DI v8 in this current generation. Either way R&D has been done on DI v8's for the vette. It would take just as much time to do a full R&D on an LS7 camaro release as a DI V8.


I don't understand why everyone is sooooooo against having a DI engine that costs less than an LS7 producing the same amount of power. yes the LS7 is in production NOW. but timing for the new vette and a possible Z28 launch give credence to the possibility of a better engine choice.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:03 PM   #93
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IF it can be ready as fast or faster than you say I'll be fine with the DI. It's just that the LS7 is ready now.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:09 PM   #94
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lol. this honestly makes me laugh. If the Vette has it for MY 2013 (sometime next year), and we have to wait half to a year after the ZL1 deput then it is quite possible to see a DI v8 in this current generation. Either way R&D has been done on DI v8's for the vette. It would take just as much time to do a full R&D on an LS7 camaro release as a DI V8.


I don't understand why everyone is sooooooo against having a DI engine that costs less than an LS7 producing the same amount of power. yes the LS7 is in production NOW. but timing for the new vette and a possible Z28 launch give credence to the possibility of a better engine choice.
Because DI in and of itself won't be a distinguishing feature. Once the DI engines are out, they'll be used everywhere including the SS. At that point, it would need to be a DI replacement for the LS7 (as opposed to the LS3's replacement), which brings us right back to square one.

As for R&D time, it takes longer to develop an engine and a car than it takes to do just the car. First they have to wait until there is a DI engine to use (which they may or may not have at the moment), or go with a substitute of comparable output for initial testing and then do final validation once the 'real' engine is ready. So in all likelihood, to get a ~500 hp DI LS3ish engine in the Z28 quickly, they'd use an LS7 as a placeholder. Then, if they have to use an unproven engine during testing, they're going to have more problems than if they just went with the LS7. Fixing problems adds time to the project. Its not that it would cripple the project, just slow it down a bit. All in all, I'd estimate that a DI Z28 would take at least an extra year vs an LS7 version.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:50 PM   #95
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Because DI in and of itself won't be a distinguishing feature. Once the DI engines are out, they'll be used everywhere including the SS. At that point, it would need to be a DI replacement for the LS7 (as opposed to the LS3's replacement), which brings us right back to square one.

As for R&D time, it takes longer to develop an engine and a car than it takes to do just the car. First they have to wait until there is a DI engine to use (which they may or may not have at the moment), or go with a substitute of comparable output for initial testing and then do final validation once the 'real' engine is ready. So in all likelihood, to get a ~500 hp DI LS3ish engine in the Z28 quickly, they'd use an LS7 as a placeholder. Then, if they have to use an unproven engine during testing, they're going to have more problems than if they just went with the LS7. Fixing problems adds time to the project. Its not that it would cripple the project, just slow it down a bit. All in all, I'd estimate that a DI Z28 would take at least an extra year vs an LS7 version.
But the fact that there is already a DI engine in the works (if not completed) for the vette means the R&D Time isn't what you are making it out to be. Seems to me everyone has written the engine off as a possibility because the have LS7 stuck in their eyes. just because it exists now doesn't mean it's the best possible choice. Especially if R&D is done on a new DI motor with VVT pushing more power less liters and cheaper to build. the only real issues for this would be putting it in the car and testing it. which the LS7 would need the same. There is no way they haven't built a Gen V motor for the vette and haven't started testing it yet. it maybe in basic C6 vette mules right now. no proof, but looking at timing for the next vette they would already have built these new Gen V engines.

I already see since the power output of DI engines is higher the base V-8 being down sized in the SS to put out 450 (max) when it comes out. And do you really think they will build a 7.0L motor for the next z06 with cafe? more then likely not. more then likely it will be downsized pushing more power (due to DI/VVT). I could very well be wrong. if they keep the 7.0L displacement and add DI/VVT. . .that would be a monster of an engine. quick someone do the math for power out put increase. . . 606 ish? I don't see a z28 that you all are talking about with a price point between the ss and zl1 having more hp then the zl1. Not now adays. maybe back in the 60's/70's.
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Old 09-25-2011, 09:38 PM   #96
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But the fact that there is already a DI engine in the works (if not completed) for the vette means the R&D Time isn't what you are making it out to be. Seems to me everyone has written the engine off as a possibility because the have LS7 stuck in their eyes. just because it exists now doesn't mean it's the best possible choice. Especially if R&D is done on a new DI motor with VVT pushing more power less liters and cheaper to build. the only real issues for this would be putting it in the car and testing it. which the LS7 would need the same. There is no way they haven't built a Gen V motor for the vette and haven't started testing it yet. it maybe in basic C6 vette mules right now. no proof, but looking at timing for the next vette they would already have built these new Gen V engines.

I already see since the power output of DI engines is higher the base V-8 being down sized in the SS to put out 450 (max) when it comes out. And do you really think they will build a 7.0L motor for the next z06 with cafe? more then likely not. more then likely it will be downsized pushing more power (due to DI/VVT). I could very well be wrong. if they keep the 7.0L displacement and add DI/VVT. . .that would be a monster of an engine. quick someone do the math for power out put increase. . . 606 ish? I don't see a z28 that you all are talking about with a price point between the ss and zl1 having more hp then the zl1. Not now adays. maybe back in the 60's/70's.
But the thing is, the SS should get the same DI V8 that is going into the base Corvette. So I don't see what you expect to gain from using that engine in the Z28.
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:06 PM   #97
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The Z28 wasn't the top dog until the big blocks went away.

However GM decides to spec out the Z28 is mostly unknown it will however be lighter than the ZL1.
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:03 AM   #98
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But the thing is, the SS should get the same DI V8 that is going into the base Corvette. So I don't see what you expect to gain from using that engine in the Z28.
who is saying the 6.2 is going to be the base v-8. for all we know it will be a 5.5 or 5.7. rumor mill for the c7 says a 3.0 turbo v-8 is going in the vette. also the 6.2 if making 606 would be the next logical step for the z06. should get better mileage and will have more power. I'm just saying everyone has ruled out the possibility because of what's on the factory floor in full production now. not what's being developed and what could be in the mix about the time we see the Z28 on the roads. I say don't rule it out because it's not on the shelf now. I'm looking at what's going to be on the shelf about the time a possible Z28 would debut.

Don't get me wrong I think an ls7 powered z28 would be BA. But with the possibility of DI/VVT being apart of the car why rule it out if it's going to be on the road by then? I fully trust the camaro team to deliver a BA z28 no matter what.
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:04 AM   #99
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The Z28 wasn't the top dog until the big blocks went away.

However GM decides to spec out the Z28 is mostly unknown it will however be lighter than the ZL1.
That's entirely opinion based. A BB would own the 1320 but not a road course.

you're talking to people that don't get their jollies in 1320 ft. Some of us like to go longer and harder. Being someone that has done more 1/4 mile passes than road course. . .I find it quite boring. all that build up for such a short run.
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Old 09-26-2011, 02:43 AM   #100
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who is saying the 6.2 is going to be the base v-8. for all we know it will be a 5.5 or 5.7. rumor mill for the c7 says a 3.0 turbo v-8 is going in the vette. also the 6.2 if making 606 would be the next logical step for the z06. should get better mileage and will have more power. I'm just saying everyone has ruled out the possibility because of what's on the factory floor in full production now. not what's being developed and what could be in the mix about the time we see the Z28 on the roads. I say don't rule it out because it's not on the shelf now. I'm looking at what's going to be on the shelf about the time a possible Z28 would debut.

Don't get me wrong I think an ls7 powered z28 would be BA. But with the possibility of DI/VVT being apart of the car why rule it out if it's going to be on the road by then? I fully trust the camaro team to deliver a BA z28 no matter what.
I certainly didn't claim any specific displacement. I'm thinking in terms of the role these engines fill, not how much air fills each engine.

The engine that you want for the Z28 is the one that will be found in the base Corvette in a couple of years. It should be a great engine, probably producing power somewhere between the current LS3 & LS7. The problem is, that engine will also be found in the Camaro SS, just as the LS3 is used for both cars right now. It won't be 'saved' as some sort of Z28 exclusive (within the Camaro lineup of course). It won't do anything to distinguish the Z28 from the SS on its own. And if it won't be anything special, why bother waiting for it? Why not just give the SS a handling package right now & call it a day?
oesn't fit that role.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:38 AM   #101
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I would definitely think the Z/28 engine is going to be a lower displacement DI engine; something like 5.5. At this point it would make sense to have an engine that's also fits the bill for the Gen6. So it could carry over as the Gen6 Z/28 or be the next base SS engine for Gen6. No way are they going to put a 6.2 or larger engine in this street fighter.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:51 AM   #102
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What we know is that there isn't a Z/28. I bet they sell the ZL1 for a few years until CAFE kicks in and then ,they will come out with a Z/28 on the new platform with a small displacement turbo charged motor.
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