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Old 07-08-2011, 07:59 PM   #1
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Sticking clutch.. answers????

Ok so I've read over a million post about this problem... Searched everywhere for a cure... But haven't came up with a fix yet for this problem.. Other than a spring from Lingerfelter... Which seems like a band aid...

I've never had this problem till now... Stock clutch was fine.. My Ram twin disk didnt have this problem.. But now I have the LPE ZR1 clutch and NOW I get the sticking clutch... WTF...

I also changed my Fluid over to willwood EXP 600 plus... DOT 4...

Here is a link to the Clutch I purchased... Also bought the spacer..

http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...Store_Code=LPE


Almost 2000.00 and Now I have This Problem.. Anyone Know what The Fix Is???

Thanks!!
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Old 07-08-2011, 08:25 PM   #2
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i guess i would make sure fluid is always clean of clutch dust and that lengenfelter clutch return spring. problem solved for me on stock clutch
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Old 07-08-2011, 08:45 PM   #3
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Only sticking after/during hard launches or normal use?
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:33 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by steeleshark2 View Post
Only sticking after/during hard launches or normal use?
Under hard launches...also whenever under hard accelleration......only does it when the RPM's get past 5000... If I shift around 4000, I have no Problems..
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:45 AM   #5
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i guess i would make sure fluid is always clean of clutch dust and that lengenfelter clutch return spring. problem solved for me on stock clutch

Well, I know the fluid is clean.. Just changed it.. Also used a power bleeder... I made sure there was no air in any of the lines... I ran 2 quarts through the system.. I did the brakes first, then the clutch... So I know I have a complete flush...

Idk about the spring... Just seems like a band-aid.... I've never had this problem before... There has to be a reason why it's doing this...

Every car I've ever owned that was a manual.. Has never given me any problems like this... The thought of this in the past, never even crossed my mind.. I never even heard of this problem till I got my camaro...

This BS is weird...There has got to be an answer to why all of a sudden I'm having this problem.

This sucks, cause I don't even want to go to the track till I get this problem fixed... I just finally recieved my 17' Bogarts... and I'm afraid to go the the track....Pointless to race when the clutch is like this... Ill Probably run a 18.00 or something crazy...when I should be seeing Hi 10's or low 11's
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Old 07-09-2011, 09:08 AM   #6
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For $90 you might as well and try the Lingenfelter spring.
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Yeah, I'll get around to it...
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:44 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by justa25thTA View Post
For $90 you might as well and try the Lingenfelter spring.

True, True... I just want to know what's causing this problem... I'd rather find the problem... then fix it... the spring would just be a temporary fix... but not a fix to the real problem...
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Old 07-09-2011, 07:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin1106 View Post
True, True... I just want to know what's causing this problem... I'd rather find the problem... then fix it... the spring would just be a temporary fix... but not a fix to the real problem...
I'm completely surprised you get this problem with a new ZR1 clutch for $2k. Most folks have this issue with their stock clutches.
Did you have a Force or RTrack RAM clutch before? And, why did you swap it out for a ZR1. I thought the RAM clutches had more holding strength than the RPS clutch.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:00 PM   #9
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I had the ram twin disk... supposed to have been good for 1000 hp... If I remember correctly... When I took my car in to the dealership for an oil leak.. I got to see my clutch.. after 1000 or so miles... It didnt look to good at all... I thought I was making a good decission by getting the ZR1... but now I have this damn problem..

For normal driving the ZR1 clutch is great.. I really like the feel of it... Only when you get on it... does it give me this problem...

I'll tell ya, Im so pissed to have spent 2000.00 to get this problem.. I don't know what to do.. I hope someone on here can tell my why I have this problem.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:03 PM   #10
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here some pics of my old clutch ( ram ) ... and new ZR-1

:mad0 260:
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:27 AM   #11
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First, a ram twin is good for about 700 hp. Second that clutch (ram) looks fine to me. If it was working ok why change?
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:41 AM   #12
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This is strange and disappointing since I just purchased the LPE clutch for mine. I haven't had it on the road yet as I am at the tail end of a supercharged 416 stroker build.

Not sure whether it makes that much of a difference, but those who have added a separate clutch fluid reservoir find that it has solved the problem IDK. There are a number of theories on why this happens, some say it is fluid temperature, some blamed it on the stock pressure plate but I don't think anyone has actually found the real cause. If it is none of these, that only leaves the master clutch cylinder. The last I heard, there is no replacement or upgrade for the master cylinder.
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Old 07-10-2011, 01:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin1106 View Post
:mad0 260:
Not 100 sure, but, clutch looks just fine with some normal wear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin1106 View Post
I had the ram twin disk... supposed to have been good for 1000 hp... If I remember correctly... When I took my car in to the dealership for an oil leak.. I got to see my clutch.. after 1000 or so miles... It didnt look to good at all... I thought I was making a good decission by getting the ZR1... but now I have this damn problem..

For normal driving the ZR1 clutch is great.. I really like the feel of it... Only when you get on it... does it give me this problem...

I'll tell ya, Im so pissed to have spent 2000.00 to get this problem.. I don't know what to do.. I hope someone on here can tell my why I have this problem.
You must have had the Force. Why did you change the RAM, did the dealer convince you something was wrong with it?
Did you send it back to RAM for analysis re-build?
A lot of people are purchasing the ZR1 clutch also known as (Slayer, RPS, LPE, et al). Most really like it, but I think they get the return spring along with the ZR1 kit. Seems like that's the only thing you may be missing here.
I'd be pissed off too, both of these clutch systems are $1500-2000, plus labour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyby View Post
First, a ram twin is good for about 700 hp. Second that clutch (ram) looks fine to me. If it was working ok why change?
I agree seems like some normal wear on the flywheel to me. The RTrack with 900 series discs (steel) are rated at 1300hp., this one looks like the Force with some kind of carbon fibre discs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matster View Post
This is strange and disappointing since I just purchased the LPE clutch for mine. I haven't had it on the road yet as I am at the tail end of a supercharged 416 stroker build.

Not sure whether it makes that much of a difference, but those who have added a separate clutch fluid reservoir find that it has solved the problem IDK. There are a number of theories on why this happens, some say it is fluid temperature, some blamed it on the stock pressure plate but I don't think anyone has actually found the real cause. If it is none of these, that only leaves the master clutch cylinder. The last I heard, there is no replacement or upgrade for the master cylinder.
Attachment 263207
Hey Matster; You may be right on. I thnk lot's of folks just get the return spring from LPE as a quick fix, but a separate reservoir may resolve the issue.
This happened to me last week (clutch stuck to floor) and I thought I fried the stock clutch, luckily it's still okay (for now).

When I do my clutch upgrade, a few other things I'll be doing. Hopefully, folks do clutch upgrades will do the same and avoid any further issues with clutch and shifter.
1. Separate reservoir kit
2. Bleeder kit
3. New return spring (most likely LPE)
4. Clutch will exceed my expected capacity by at least 100-300 lbtq. just to make sure, and it will be all steel construction (if it chatters, who cares? It's a damn sports car and it's more important to be able to confidently beat up on it than for it to be quiet so the kids can watch cartoons in the rear seat. LOL)
5. Check and / or change the syncronizer rings, and verify no busted gears (due to defective rings) in the tranny (to carbon instead of steel).

Unfortunately, all of this is out of pocket expenses.
Personally, I don't think GM had their thinking caps on when they decided to share fluids between a super hot braking system, and a clutch that has to throw down gear shifting at 5+k RPM's.
I believe they did the risk analysis and intentionally made a lot of screw ups on this car (due to bean counting) which people will see resolved in future versions of the vehicle (ZL1), but will pay dearly for it especially after all the warranty work they had to do on the 2010's and most likely 2011's.
By far the clutch and shiftng mechanims seems to be the one single largest issue with this vehicle. Which to me should be taken very seriously by GM, this is a sports car, and should have been designed to take a beating, especially the clutch and the shifter. If the car won't shift properly, you can't drive it the way it should be driven (aggressively). It's not rocket science.
Some of us are fortunate enough that we can afford to muck around to achieve build up a vehicle that we believe should have been performing at a certain degree to begin with, but I really feel for folks that have to fight / claw to get this BS resolved.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:37 PM   #14
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As most know the most common problem of a clutch sticking to the floor is heat/disk material entering the hydrolic system. Alot of the organic disks slip a certain % under heavy load or during a hard launch or hard gear shift.

My suggestion would be stay away from the organic disks. With the right clutch assembly your peddle will never drop or stick to the floor. I too think the spring mod is a band aid.

In the last 10 years I've tested a ton of clutches for drivability and life.Have blown up 7 of them personally in my own vehicles. Right now my favorite are Monster and Mcleod RXT's.With both of those the peddle will never stick on the floor.

The ZR1 clutches? I'd say they work for alot of people. We haven't had luck with them at all but our cars are driven hard. My dyno also showed them slipping in the whole rpm area when cool then they started to grab better the hotter they got but the peddles would stick to the floor. Must be the load dyno bringing them out because when I take out the 4000lb car load and use a generic 2k lb load they show no sign of slipping.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:48 PM   #15
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I just made a new thread about this:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157820
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Old 07-10-2011, 10:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyby View Post
First, a ram twin is good for about 700 hp. Second that clutch (ram) looks fine to me. If it was working ok why change?
Well I didn't really like the shutter on soft take offs... Seems like I never gave it enough gas... The ZR-1 is great in this category...

I really feel like I made a bad call on this clutch now... I do take mine to the track( Haven't yet since new clutch ) But the last time I was there there, I felt the clutch slipping to the 60' mark... I had a terriable run... I ran a 14.13

After that.. I called it a day and went home.. The next morning is when I noticed the oil leak.. So when I took it into the dealership to get it fixed... It wasnt to hard for the tech to talk me into getting a new clutch...
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:20 AM   #17
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As most know the most common problem of a clutch sticking to the floor is heat/disk material entering the hydrolic system. Alot of the organic disks slip a certain % under heavy load or during a hard launch or hard gear shift.

My suggestion would be stay away from the organic disks. With the right clutch assembly your peddle will never drop or stick to the floor. I too think the spring mod is a band aid.

In the last 10 years I've tested a ton of clutches for drivability and life.Have blown up 7 of them personally in my own vehicles. Right now my favorite are Monster and Mcleod RXT's.With both of those the peddle will never stick on the floor.

The ZR1 clutches? I'd say they work for alot of people. We haven't had luck with them at all but our cars are driven hard. My dyno also showed them slipping in the whole rpm area when cool then they started to grab better the hotter they got but the peddles would stick to the floor. Must be the load dyno bringing them out because when I take out the 4000lb car load and use a generic 2k lb load they show no sign of slipping.
Have you ever tested the SPEC (1500lbtq.) Twin or the RAM RTrack (1300lbtq.)?
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:50 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Matster View Post
This is strange and disappointing since I just purchased the LPE clutch for mine. I haven't had it on the road yet as I am at the tail end of a supercharged 416 stroker build.

Not sure whether it makes that much of a difference, but those who have added a separate clutch fluid reservoir find that it has solved the problem IDK. There are a number of theories on why this happens, some say it is fluid temperature, some blamed it on the stock pressure plate but I don't think anyone has actually found the real cause. If it is none of these, that only leaves the master clutch cylinder. The last I heard, there is no replacement or upgrade for the master cylinder.
Attachment 263207
This problem has been around for a while. I read an article of an improved master cylinder that reportedly helped the clutch sticking issue a few years back for the LS cars. I couldn't find the article, but here is another I found on GM HighTech Performance site:http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ics/index.html
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:44 PM   #19
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This problem has been around for a while. I read an article of an improved master cylinder that reportedly helped the clutch sticking issue a few years back for the LS cars. I couldn't find the article, but here is another I found on GM HighTech Performance site:http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ics/index.html
What amazes me is GM continues to pretend they don't know what's causing the issue. Amazing isn't it?
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:10 PM   #20
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Have you ever tested the SPEC (1500lbtq.) Twin or the RAM RTrack (1300lbtq.)?
I've tested 2 of the Specs twins,PT series.They were both pre production as test unit's. They were both great clutches and abused to hell and back on 900rwhp cars.They both lasted over 50k miles. Very good clutches. Since the testers they changed the disk material alittle bit and made the newer clutches chatter a bit on take off. Mine had and still have no chatter.

I've seen enough older RAMs not last long to even give them a try.
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:18 PM   #21
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This problem has been around for a while. I read an article of an improved master cylinder that reportedly helped the clutch sticking issue a few years back for the LS cars. I couldn't find the article, but here is another I found on GM HighTech Performance site:http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ics/index.html
The GTO's are very well known for the crap rubber line expanding while pushing the clutch peddle.

That article mentions hard to get into gears which leads me to believe they installed a LS7 clutch which is not designed for that hydrolic system.It will not disengage enough. So,they band aided it with a bigger master cylinder.

My 2001 TA was a M6 and made over 200 1/4 mile passes with it. The peddle stuck to the floor with the stock clutch.With the better non-organic clutches my peddle never stuck to the floor and had no problems shifting gears at 6900rpm. Made atleast 120 passes like that.Same clutch fluid was in there the whole time.
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:22 PM   #22
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master clutch cylinder is the problem, along with the whole stock hydraulic system. contact member JUDE on here. he had a 1000rwhp clutch problem and Fastlane replaced it all but i dont remember what they used
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:02 PM   #23
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OK, so I just called Lingenfelter today.... I wanted to see what they would say is the cause of the problem...and to see if they would help me with a fix.... Well all he said ( Tim ) was to bleed the clutch... ( told him that its been done twice ) and if that doesnt fix the problem.. That they sell a return spring kit for the pedal.. So once again.. No serious fix... Just a band-aid for the problem.. I asked if I could get a discount since I'VE NEVER HAD THIS PROBLEM BEFORE. Of course I was told no... Its 89.95....

I really think that's Fu**ed UP.. I spent 1873.00 on a clutch..... now I get this problem.. then they want to charge you more money for a band-aid cause their clutch isnt worth a Crap!!!

To anyone who is thinking of buying the ZR-1 clutch.. DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!! IT STICK TO THE FLOOR....With no help from LPE... except spend more money...For a sh*tty band-aid fix!!!

Im taking this clutch out of my car!! It's NO good to me!!!

WTF kind of crap is this!!! So mad I could spit bullets!!
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:08 PM   #24
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Do like Ophrah (Wow, .... wow.....). I"m amazed this issue can continue for as long as it has without any resolution.
Sounds, like regardless of which clutch you purchase (1-2k out of pocket), this issue won't go away.
Hellooooo........ GM, Chevy, anyone that works at that company, anything to say??????
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:25 PM   #25
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OK, so I just called Lingenfelter today.... I wanted to see what they would say is the cause of the problem...and to see if they would help me with a fix.... Well all he said ( Tim ) was to bleed the clutch... ( told him that its been done twice ) and if that doesnt fix the problem.. That they sell a return spring kit for the pedal.. So once again.. No serious fix... Just a band-aid for the problem.. I asked if I could get a discount since I'VE NEVER HAD THIS PROBLEM BEFORE. Of course I was told no... Its 89.95....

I really think that's Fu**ed UP.. I spent 1873.00 on a clutch..... now I get this problem.. then they want to charge you more money for a band-aid cause their clutch isnt worth a Crap!!!

To anyone who is thinking of buying the ZR-1 clutch.. DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!! IT STICK TO THE FLOOR....With no help from LPE... except spend more money...For a sh*tty band-aid fix!!!

Im taking this clutch out of my car!! It's NO good to me!!!

WTF kind of crap is this!!! So mad I could spit bullets!!
Bro' I'd be pissed too. But, I don't think the issue is the clutch, I believe "depending" on clutch materials (organic or steel) you may or may not have the issue(s), depending on how someone drives their vehicle.
In my opinion the real problem may have to do with the hydraulics of the entire system (master / slave cylinder), and / or combination of other things (the shifter mechanisms, syncronizers, single fluid system between brakes / clutch, small master cylinder, cheap rubber tubing instead of larger guage nylon or stainless tubes, etc...) that further complicate shifting (grinding gears, shifter get's stuck at higher RPM's, pedal stuck to floor, etc.....).
From what I read, I think most people change their clutch to resolve a number of issues, "and" the only workaround for now with the pedal is the dumb spring fix from LPE.
LPE is probably the only ones that come up with a quick fix for the problem.
Personally, I believe anyone with clutch issues need to complain to GM (head office not dealerships), perhaps if they get enough complaints they'll do something about it.
I would bet the clutch issues are very prevalent in 2010, 2011, and will be in the 2012 (all version including ZL1), and if not in future versions GM needs to pony up and tell consumers how to resolve the issue or make a recall to fix the issue.
It could be very "dangerous" driving on the freeway, and your clutch sticks to the ground and you're no longer able to shift.
This happened to me once already on the freeway, I was very concerned.
If the problem is someplace else in the system simply changing the clutch won't fix it, we either have to change the whole system or live with driving our "sport cars" like granny does.
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