Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
HRE Wheels
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Suspension / Brakes / Chassis


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-06-2016, 07:01 PM   #1
PowerDad
 
Drives: 2010 SS1
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: CT
Posts: 7
Z28 or 1LE?

This is my first post, the Powerdad moniker was given to me by my 5-year-old son 16 years ago. Now that I have purchased a 2010 SS, it almost fits.
I want to improve handling of my stock Camaro SS, starting with upgrading the rear cradle bushings. My ultimate goal is to upgrade the entire suspension to either a Z28 or 1LE class system for street and possibly autocross track use.
There are many aftermarket solutions available. I checked with the dealership and Z28 cradle bushings are only available with a full cradle w/bushings purchase of $550.00. What is strange is the SS cradle w/bushings is $850.00 (Mystic CT). Doesn’t make sense to me or the salesman at the dealership.
The Z28 kit has upgraded bushings on the supplied parts, however the rear lower control arm and cradle bushing are left stock?? What aftermarket bushings would complement the bushings in the Z28 kit best for these locations? Does anyone have a set of stock FE4 rear lower control arms?
How does the 1LE and Z28 upgrades perform on the street? My wife’s little 5’1” body is sitting in the back seat so any feedback on back seat comfort is welcome.
PowerDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 08:07 PM   #2
olblue75


 
olblue75's Avatar
 
Drives: Inferno Orange 2SS/RS LS-3
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Clarksville Tennesse.
Posts: 2,483
Get with Justice Pete at JP Superior Solutions he's the 5th gen suspension guru!!! He can mix the 1LE shocks struts with the Z/28 springs he calls it the Z/28 light package...
olblue75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 07:26 PM   #3
X25


 
X25's Avatar
 
Drives: '14 AGM 1SS 1LE
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 2,947
I think 1LE package is all you need. Z/28 would be a waste if you don't intend to go to track all the time, not to mention the harsh ride, and 1LE comes with excellent shocks, better than most of the coilovers, except a few very expensive models.
__________________
'14 AGM 1SS 1LE [COTW 11/17/14] (Build Thread)
'13 Mazda MX-5 Club (Build Thread)
'15 RAM 1500 Crew Cab 4x4 Laramie
'15 Nissan Rogue S AWD
X25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2016, 07:27 AM   #4
JDP Motorsports
Driver of Frankey

 
JDP Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro SS/ 2016 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sandy, Utah
Posts: 3,386
We've got excellent solutions that mix OEM and aftermarket parts together. Give us a call or send a PM anytime!

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
888.308.6007
__________________

Click HERE to send a PM | jordan@jdpmotorsports.com | www.jdpmotorsports.com | 801-545-4215
JDP Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2016, 10:44 AM   #5
JOHNSONROD
 
JOHNSONROD's Avatar
 
Drives: 62 chevy & 2011 1SS/RS manual
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 594
i have an early 2011 ss so its basically the same car you have. my opinion would be to get a set of springs, the 1le dampers, a 1le rear bar and a zl1 front bar. JDP can put you a kit together that includes changing the rear sawy and LCAs to the new suspension style that the new camaros have. the first rev of rear suspension was a bad design. make sure any way you go, get the FE4 rear sway bar setup.
JOHNSONROD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2016, 10:28 PM   #6
PowerDad
 
Drives: 2010 SS1
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: CT
Posts: 7
Thanks everyone for all the good information. I believe i'm going to dive into this with all four feet!
PowerDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2016, 09:11 AM   #7
Hilflos
 
Drives: 2015 1SS / RS NPP
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Dayton Ohio
Posts: 290
I had typed out a bunch of bullet pointed stuff, but then figured it would be easier to link to a couple of the threads I've found where some of the questions are answered, and from which I evolved my own approach.

I'll also quote some of the more pertinent posts;

Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
A full build looks like this.

DSE Billet Aluminum Sub-Frame Bushings - They are the most expensive and also the best machines to the finest level of detail. There are no poly sub-frame bushings available in the market I can recommend.

1LE/ZL1/Z/28 OE toe Links with Sealed Monoballs from the Chevrolet
Z/28 Rear Upper Outer Control Arm solid rubber bushings from Chevrolet. They are the best available solution. They provide great stability while allowing just enough articulation to protect the arms from uneven load transfer.

JPSS Black Magic Billet Radius Bushing Inserts. They are bigger and more robust than the Z/28 molded inserts providing optimal stability while minimizing dynamic caster changes.

JPSS Black Magic Caster Locks deliver a 1 degree gain in caster to bring your steering wheel back on center more quickly coming out of turns and high speed straight line stability.

JPSS Black Magic Sway Bars are 32mm rear and 27mm adjustable front. My bar diameters have set the standard for the 5th Gen Camaro since 2009. Often imitated in dimension, but never duplicated. JPSS bars are the 5th Gen Gold Standard.

We have two choices in coilovers. Both the DSE and RideTech systems replace the rear upper strut mounts minimizing the side-loads on the strut shafts and seals. This makes them more reliable than the OE or aftermarket systems that retain the hard rubber hour glass OE mount. For street and up to mid level road course use we use RideTech. For full competitive mode we move to the DSE / JRI coilovers at mre than double the price of the RideTechs.

We use Forgeline GA3R wheels in our 5th Gen builds. The 5th Gen is an unusually powerful vehicle that is heavy by track car stabdards placing exceptionally high loads on the wheels. The GA3R by Forgeline is the ONLY wheels that comes with a competition warranty, that covers the wheels for all out racing on slicks. That tells you all you need to know about the strength and quality of Forgeline GA3R wheels. Match the suspension to a set of Forgeline GA3R 19 x 11.5 rear and 19 x 11 fronts with rubber squared from 305/30/19 to 325/30/19 and you have a 5th Gen that will out handle vehicles with sticker prices multiple times higher than a modified 5th Gen.

On your $2k initial budget we can do sub-frame bushings, radius bushing inserts, caster locks and sway bars. With a JPSS tight spec alignment you'll be astounded at how well it handles.

Double your budget and we can do a full build with RideTechs.

A little more than triple your budget and we can do a full build with DSE / JRI coilovers.

Three times your initial budget gets you into a set of Forgeline GA3Rs with rubber.

I hope this answers your questions and gives you some direction to get your suspension build started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDP Sales View Post
Hey Camaro5!

JDP ZL-850 Track Spec Package Includes
  • Detroit Speed 1" Lowering Springs
  • Detroit Speed ZL-Spec sway bars with adjustable endlinks
  • Detroit Speed Solid Rear Cradle Mounts
  • Detroit Speed adjustable trailing arms with JDP outer bushings
  • Detroit Speed adjustable toe-links
  • Detroit Speed adjustable rear lower control arms
  • Detroit Speed adjustable engine mounts
  • Prothane front radius arm inserts (black)
  • JDP Motorsports rear upper control arm bushings with brackets
  • JDP Motorsports front tow hook
  • Goodridge Stainless Steel brake lines with 3-pints of motul RBF-600 fluid
  • Complete Package ready for Installation
  • Free Shipping to the Lower 48!
Those were taken from here and here, respectively.

I quote those as they both list the components targeted by two of the more expert vendors that frequent this forum. Pete and Jordan both, I believe, know what they're talking about, and while their advice sometimes differs slightly, you will notice that they're targeting the same set of components, generally speaking.

Individuals who have posted about their own experiences, and spend a lot of time on tracks, are X25, Dropspeed, Cornerspeed92, and Backeddy. That's a partial list. There are more. I have found their build threads and posts quite useful. The first two have gone from 1LE to Z28 suspensions, and have written about their experiences, with both, extensively. Mgizzle has also been a good source for some glimpses into the design, and reasons behind the design of some things.

Personally, having read pretty much everything I can find on these forums, corresponded with the folks at JDP, and Apex, PM'd a couple of users to refine questions I had after reading about their experiences, and read the entirety of Pete's "book" any number of times, I am still evolving my plan. Helpful, huh?

What I've done so far is the complete 1LE suspension, and some BMR poly subframe / rear cradle bushings. I did these in May and August, respectively, each were noticeable improvements. The 1LE was dramatically so. The bushings not as much so, but still quite noticeable.

Next, for sure, are a square setup for wheels and tires (stock wheels have become my cold weather set) a slightly larger rear sway bar, and radius rod inserts up front. Some of the reasons why can be found here. My own contribution to that thread is found midway through page 2. That's going to happen as soon as the weather warms up.

From there, the only definitive steps I've determined are, when I get around to upgrading the rear end gears I'll replace the subframe / rear cradle bushings with something solid and aluminum, and do the upper rear control arm bushings at the same time. Hopefully that will be later this year.

Rear trailing arms, axles, drive shaft, and an Eaton true-trac are on the "eventually pretty likely" list.

My car is a daily driver currently, and with just the small amount I've done to it so far, I couldn't be happier. It is exactly what I'm after. A little autocross, mostly as an effort at driver mod, has been my only recreational time in the car, outside some regular back road corner carving. Track time is already set up for later on this year. Knowing me as well as I do, I'm planning on the bug settling in for a long stay, and will evaluate, pretty much every potential upgrade after I get some time, experience, and the car is relegated to hobby vehicle instead of daily (fun) driver.

Oh, and as always, thanks to everyone I called out in this post, as well as everyone whom I didn't mention by name. You all are the reason I know anything at all about these cars, and any mistakes in what I've written here, are more than likely down to me not having fully understood what you've been communicating.
Hilflos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2016, 10:16 AM   #8
JDP Motorsports
Driver of Frankey

 
JDP Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro SS/ 2016 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sandy, Utah
Posts: 3,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNSONROD View Post
i have an early 2011 ss so its basically the same car you have. my opinion would be to get a set of springs, the 1le dampers, a 1le rear bar and a zl1 front bar. JDP can put you a kit together that includes changing the rear sawy and LCAs to the new suspension style that the new camaros have. the first rev of rear suspension was a bad design. make sure any way you go, get the FE4 rear sway bar setup.
That is a great package and one we've done frequently! The 1LE/ZL1 front bar and the Z/28 rear bar is also an excellent set up in terms of OE bars. The DSE package is also an excellent choice with the adjustable rear bar and we are working on a lighter rate rear bar to work with a square package.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDad View Post
Thanks everyone for all the good information. I believe i'm going to dive into this with all four feet!
Feel free to call, email or PM me anytime with questions! We have a ton of proven options and we can piece something together over time or get it done in one swing!





Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilflos View Post
I had typed out a bunch of bullet pointed stuff, but then figured it would be easier to link to a couple of the threads I've found where some of the questions are answered, and from which I evolved my own approach.

I'll also quote some of the more pertinent posts;





Those were taken from here and here, respectively.

I quote those as they both list the components targeted by two of the more expert vendors that frequent this forum. Pete and Jordan both, I believe, know what they're talking about, and while their advice sometimes differs slightly, you will notice that they're targeting the same set of components, generally speaking.

Individuals who have posted about their own experiences, and spend a lot of time on tracks, are X25, Dropspeed, Cornerspeed92, and Backeddy. That's a partial list. There are more. I have found their build threads and posts quite useful. The first two have gone from 1LE to Z28 suspensions, and have written about their experiences, with both, extensively. Mgizzle has also been a good source for some glimpses into the design, and reasons behind the design of some things.

Personally, having read pretty much everything I can find on these forums, corresponded with the folks at JDP, and Apex, PM'd a couple of users to refine questions I had after reading about their experiences, and read the entirety of Pete's "book" any number of times, I am still evolving my plan. Helpful, huh?

What I've done so far is the complete 1LE suspension, and some BMR poly subframe / rear cradle bushings. I did these in May and August, respectively, each were noticeable improvements. The 1LE was dramatically so. The bushings not as much so, but still quite noticeable.

Next, for sure, are a square setup for wheels and tires (stock wheels have become my cold weather set) a slightly larger rear sway bar, and radius rod inserts up front. Some of the reasons why can be found here. My own contribution to that thread is found midway through page 2. That's going to happen as soon as the weather warms up.

From there, the only definitive steps I've determined are, when I get around to upgrading the rear end gears I'll replace the subframe / rear cradle bushings with something solid and aluminum, and do the upper rear control arm bushings at the same time. Hopefully that will be later this year.

Rear trailing arms, axles, drive shaft, and an Eaton true-trac are on the "eventually pretty likely" list.

My car is a daily driver currently, and with just the small amount I've done to it so far, I couldn't be happier. It is exactly what I'm after. A little autocross, mostly as an effort at driver mod, has been my only recreational time in the car, outside some regular back road corner carving. Track time is already set up for later on this year. Knowing me as well as I do, I'm planning on the bug settling in for a long stay, and will evaluate, pretty much every potential upgrade after I get some time, experience, and the car is relegated to hobby vehicle instead of daily (fun) driver.

Oh, and as always, thanks to everyone I called out in this post, as well as everyone whom I didn't mention by name. You all are the reason I know anything at all about these cars, and any mistakes in what I've written here, are more than likely down to me not having fully understood what you've been communicating.
There is some good info there! We appreciate your support and please feel free to call, email or PM us anytime with questions!

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
888.308.6007
__________________

Click HERE to send a PM | jordan@jdpmotorsports.com | www.jdpmotorsports.com | 801-545-4215
JDP Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2016, 04:26 PM   #9
SPCBA


 
Drives: pleather and Chiclets
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: a line somwhere
Posts: 4,192
Alignment, wheels and tires should be first if you want to upgrade the handling braking department
__________________
SPCBA is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.