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Old 07-17-2011, 12:25 AM   #1
MikeLA2011ss
 
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Supercharging advice

What's up everyone, so I am going with a centrifigal supercharger set up, I keep hearing the weak point in an ls3 is the valves, what is the max psi or max hp an ls3 can run safely? I hear 12 psi and under all the time, I also hear no more then 650 hp and psi doesn't matter... I already have full bolt ons
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Old 07-17-2011, 01:12 AM   #2
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Weak part is the connecting rods and high compression with weak pistons.
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Old 07-17-2011, 01:29 AM   #3
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I have a ProCharger installed and although the engine IAT's and all were good, engine still cracked up inside this past week. Only, took 1 1/2 months. We used all brand new top of the line accessories in the heads. Medium size custom grind 3 pin. blower CAM and still kaboom.
Word of advice; Save yourself some serious stress and stay stock or forge the engine first, then get a supercharger or figure out a way to go no more than 5psi. of boost (seems pretty useless to go that low though).
I ran 7.5psi. at 6400rpm. which is very modest (rarely hit more than 4500rpm.), and as you know centris provide boost based on RPM's. Upon inspetion so far a bent valve, now need to tear down the entire engine to figure out what went wrong. Not good at all.
Everyone believed this LS3 engine could handle <10psi. yet lot's of stories of cracked up engines. The only guys that don't have busted engines are the ones that bored them to 416ci. or 427ci. and forged the internals.
I thought I could have things done well below the 10psi. and wait until next spring to have engine stroked and forged.
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Old 07-17-2011, 03:48 AM   #4
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Weak part is the connecting rods and high compression with weak pistons.
What he said and add in pump gas as well... Look around before you make a decision... First thing I would do is forge the bottom end, then save for a fuel system and humongous intercooler.. then get the s/c

compression, iat's, pump gas and lean conditions ... you should do reserch on all that

a meth kit will help
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Old 07-18-2011, 02:29 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by MikeLA2011ss View Post
What's up everyone, so I am going with a centrifigal supercharger set up, I keep hearing the weak point in an ls3 is the valves, what is the max psi or max hp an ls3 can run safely? I hear 12 psi and under all the time, I also hear no more then 650 hp and psi doesn't matter... I already have full bolt ons
Moved to V8 Forced Induction ... might get you a few more replies than Camaro5 Fest discussions
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Old 07-18-2011, 07:27 AM   #6
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I have a ProCharger installed and although the engine IAT's and all were good, engine still cracked up inside this past week. Only, took 1 1/2 months. .

If this was on the stock rotating assembly, you were pushing some serious horsepower through it. I`m not suprised something let go at that power level. Sorry it happened to you, definetly sucks.

To the OP stay around 550rwhp and you should be fine on the stock motor, but boost is a finicky animal, some stay together for a long time, others die early.
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Old 07-18-2011, 07:40 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by calbert1999 View Post
I have a ProCharger installed and although the engine IAT's and all were good, engine still cracked up inside this past week. Only, took 1 1/2 months. We used all brand new top of the line accessories in the heads. Medium size custom grind 3 pin. blower CAM and still kaboom.
Word of advice; Save yourself some serious stress and stay stock or forge the engine first, then get a supercharger or figure out a way to go no more than 5psi. of boost (seems pretty useless to go that low though).
I ran 7.5psi. at 6400rpm. which is very modest (rarely hit more than 4500rpm.), and as you know centris provide boost based on RPM's. Upon inspetion so far a bent valve, now need to tear down the entire engine to figure out what went wrong. Not good at all.
Everyone believed this LS3 engine could handle <10psi. yet lot's of stories of cracked up engines. The only guys that don't have busted engines are the ones that bored them to 416ci. or 427ci. and forged the internals.
I thought I could have things done well below the 10psi. and wait until next spring to have engine stroked and forged.
Damn, I hate to hear that; silver lining is you get to rebuild now and make more power. I know those are hollow thoughts at present, but hope you get it put back together sooner rather than later.
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Old 07-18-2011, 09:48 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by MikeLA2011ss View Post
What's up everyone, so I am going with a centrifigal supercharger set up, I keep hearing the weak point in an ls3 is the valves, what is the max psi or max hp an ls3 can run safely? I hear 12 psi and under all the time, I also hear no more then 650 hp and psi doesn't matter... I already have full bolt ons
Hello Mike, I have a ton of Experience with Centrifugal Supercharging using Vortech Superchargers since the early 90s.

We currently have an LS3 Stock Long block that puts down 800 RWHP on 100 octane unleaded race fuel, owned by Bigdog.

Vortech YSI supercharger
Vortech optional Cog drive
JRE Rough Idle blower cam
2 inch long tube headers
Magnaflow 3 inch exhaust.
1000 cc Injector Dynamics injectors
ADM dual fuel pump system
JRE custom Tuning.

Centrifugal superchargers are Easier on Parts as the boost is Linear with Engine RPM.

We have Hundreds of supercharged cars running around with 6-10 PSI for years and years drag racing and daily street driving.

Give me a call and I will Hook you up, I have a Polished V3 Vortech system in stock.

GQ4life has about 40,000 miles on his and He is NOT easy on it by any means

Ted.
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Old 07-18-2011, 10:29 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Hello Mike, I have a ton of Experience with Centrifugal Supercharging using Vortech Superchargers since the early 90s.

We currently have an LS3 Stock Long block that puts down 800 RWHP on 100 octane unleaded race fuel, owned by Bigdog.

Vortech YSI supercharger
Vortech optional Cog drive
JRE Rough Idle blower cam
2 inch long tube headers
Magnaflow 3 inch exhaust.
1000 cc Injector Dynamics injectors
ADM dual fuel pump system
JRE custom Tuning.

Centrifugal superchargers are Easier on Parts as the boost is Linear with Engine RPM.

We have Hundreds of supercharged cars running around with 6-10 PSI for years and years drag racing and daily street driving.

Give me a call and I will Hook you up, I have a Polished V3 Vortech system in stock.

GQ4life has about 40,000 miles on his and He is NOT easy on it by any means

Ted.
Everytime I read horror stories, I think " Theres no way I'm boosting my Camaro now." Then you reassure me again thats it's ok to do it, just do it right lol. Thanks Ted!
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Old 07-18-2011, 10:34 AM   #10
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Yeah boosting is scaring me away from it. I may just go longtube headers and LS3 conversion with 3 bolt CAM and call it a day.
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:34 AM   #11
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Yeah boosting is scaring me away from it. I may just go longtube headers and LS3 conversion with 3 bolt CAM and call it a day.
Don't Be Scared, when done Properly it is as Reliable as any other factory car on the road.
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:45 AM   #12
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Don't Be Scared, when done Properly it is as Reliable as any other factory car on the road.
when you say "properly", does that include being forged? or are you saying this based on a stock bottom end? i also am looking forward to a modest amout of boost at some point, so i am reading more and more about it. thanks.
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Old 07-18-2011, 12:25 PM   #13
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when you say "properly", does that include being forged? or are you saying this based on a stock bottom end? i also am looking forward to a modest amout of boost at some point, so i am reading more and more about it. thanks.
Not necessarily, it depends on power goals, in this Case NO.

Modest boost is 6-8 PSI which could net you 500-550 RWHP Easy and Reliably.

We built hundreds of Stock Bottom end Supercharger packages over the last 20 years.

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Old 07-18-2011, 01:50 PM   #14
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i ts picking a good combination and having realistic goals.... Then having Confidence in your tuner and his goal..... Some are in it for sheer Horsepower numbers others have your cars health in mind....and a few rare ones balance both... At the end of the day ....stick to what you said .... dont add anything else and Trust your tuner....You start tweaking without him ......and your begging for it..... This winter Ill be taking the next step and forging and Once again going to my tuner for his magic touch

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Old 07-18-2011, 02:06 PM   #15
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Not necessarily, it depends on power goals, in this Case NO.

Modest boost is 6-8 PSI which could net you 500-550 RWHP Easy and Reliably.

We built hundreds of Stock Bottom end Supercharger packages over the last 20 years.

Ted.
thats exactly what i am hoping for, 5-550 hp, and SAFE...i realize more psi, more hp...more mods needed. but i dont want to get into all that if i can be at the levels you mention and be ok with reliability.
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Old 07-18-2011, 04:37 PM   #16
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this is why I added a water/meth system to my TVS 2300 setup. I didn't have to have it but everyone said it would really help my engine and provide some cheap insurance at the same time.

might want to check in to it.
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Old 07-18-2011, 05:36 PM   #17
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Everyone thank you so much for your input, I am definitely going to supercharge it, I have been working with ragin Racin and have not heard/ experienced anything but good work, Ted I definitely want to talk about that vortech set up and see what we can do, I have about 4 other Camaro owners interested as well, call me at 337 366 4016---- also I heard the meth injection was very effective along with an oil cooler. I'm trying not to forge my internals right now, eventually yes, 2 years from now yes. My goals are to walk all over a Shelby gt 500 lol. 05 06 07 gt, new 5.0 down, cobra and Shelby to go! Haha go Camaro!
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Old 07-18-2011, 06:22 PM   #18
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I have a ProCharger installed and although the engine IAT's and all were good, engine still cracked up inside this past week. Only, took 1 1/2 months. We used all brand new top of the line accessories in the heads. Medium size custom grind 3 pin. blower CAM and still kaboom.
Word of advice; Save yourself some serious stress and stay stock or forge the engine first, then get a supercharger or figure out a way to go no more than 5psi. of boost (seems pretty useless to go that low though).
I ran 7.5psi. at 6400rpm. which is very modest (rarely hit more than 4500rpm.), and as you know centris provide boost based on RPM's. Upon inspetion so far a bent valve, now need to tear down the entire engine to figure out what went wrong. Not good at all.
Everyone believed this LS3 engine could handle <10psi. yet lot's of stories of cracked up engines. The only guys that don't have busted engines are the ones that bored them to 416ci. or 427ci. and forged the internals.
I thought I could have things done well below the 10psi. and wait until next spring to have engine stroked and forged.
Sorry to Hear this....Yes....the engine may have been the fault here....but I think the best tuners aren't going to allow certain builds to proceed....regardless of all the numbers looking good.
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Old 07-18-2011, 06:28 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by MikeLA2011ss View Post
What's up everyone, so I am going with a centrifigal supercharger set up, I keep hearing the weak point in an ls3 is the valves, what is the max psi or max hp an ls3 can run safely? I hear 12 psi and under all the time, I also hear no more then 650 hp and psi doesn't matter... I already have full bolt ons

i wouldnt run 12 PSI on a stock bottom end, not if you want it to live a while, most of our stg 6 kits are doing 670+ rwhp with under 10 PSI of boost, and if you do it with a Vortec you are being even eaiser on your motor over a maggie. let us know if we can help you out on your build, our shop car is getting a YSI right now actually :-)
and our other two shop cars already have vortec's on them. they are great blowers.
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Originally Posted by calbert1999 View Post
I have a ProCharger installed and although the engine IAT's and all were good, engine still cracked up inside this past week. Only, took 1 1/2 months. We used all brand new top of the line accessories in the heads. Medium size custom grind 3 pin. blower CAM and still kaboom.
Word of advice; Save yourself some serious stress and stay stock or forge the engine first, then get a supercharger or figure out a way to go no more than 5psi. of boost (seems pretty useless to go that low though).
I ran 7.5psi. at 6400rpm. which is very modest (rarely hit more than 4500rpm.), and as you know centris provide boost based on RPM's. Upon inspetion so far a bent valve, now need to tear down the entire engine to figure out what went wrong. Not good at all.
Everyone believed this LS3 engine could handle <10psi. yet lot's of stories of cracked up engines. The only guys that don't have busted engines are the ones that bored them to 416ci. or 427ci. and forged the internals.
I thought I could have things done well below the 10psi. and wait until next spring to have engine stroked and forged.
man that really sucks! you hear about a guy here and there popping a motor on lower boost but not as often as 10+ psi cars, after about 9 PSI or 650 RWHP i tell my customers your time is limited...another thins is a good tune. tune has to be PERFECT for a motor to live at these levels.
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Old 07-18-2011, 07:27 PM   #20
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What's up everyone, so I am going with a centrifigal supercharger set up, I keep hearing the weak point in an ls3 is the valves, what is the max psi or max hp an ls3 can run safely? I hear 12 psi and under all the time, I also hear no more then 650 hp and psi doesn't matter... I already have full bolt ons

You need to do some math with this one...

Your boost and power is limited by the stock short block for sure...

at a bare minimum, replace the stock flat top pistons with forged dished pistons to lower your compression ratio and do the math to figure out what your maximum boost should be... use the specs on the blower you want, find its "sweet spot" (the highest airflow for HP used to turn the SC), and determine what your starting compression ratio should be to meet the max airflow at a compression of no more than 11:1... this should keep you on pump gas and get you the most power.


at minimum, get the flat-top hypereutectic pistons out of the engine... if your gonna shoot for more than 650 HP, loose the rods as well...
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:13 PM   #21
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Ted how do Vortech IATs compare to Procharger or ECS or even a PD like a Maggie or a WHipple?
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:57 PM   #22
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Ted, what's the lift on the blower cams your using in the ls3 engines with stock pistons. I'm seeing slot of ls3 engines fail...and I've noticed they all have bent valves in the mix. I know you know I'm getting at. I'm thinking with those flat pistons that the valves may be kissing them slightly and causing some failures. Of course cam timing has alot to do with it too, not just lift. Op, if you have the funds, I'd change pistons and rods before putting the blower on it. Also, if your going to do a cam, not is the time to check piston to valve clearance and degree it in.
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Old 07-18-2011, 10:48 PM   #23
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Can you live with whipple ls3 stock, twin pump meth LT's cam making 700rwhp ?
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:12 AM   #24
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I have a ProCharger installed and although the engine IAT's and all were good, engine still cracked up inside this past week. Only, took 1 1/2 months. We used all brand new top of the line accessories in the heads. Medium size custom grind 3 pin. blower CAM and still kaboom.
Word of advice; Save yourself some serious stress and stay stock or forge the engine first, then get a supercharger or figure out a way to go no more than 5psi. of boost (seems pretty useless to go that low though).
I ran 7.5psi. at 6400rpm. which is very modest (rarely hit more than 4500rpm.), and as you know centris provide boost based on RPM's. Upon inspetion so far a bent valve, now need to tear down the entire engine to figure out what went wrong. Not good at all.
Everyone believed this LS3 engine could handle <10psi. yet lot's of stories of cracked up engines. The only guys that don't have busted engines are the ones that bored them to 416ci. or 427ci. and forged the internals.
I thought I could have things done well below the 10psi. and wait until next spring to have engine stroked and forged.
I was reading this thread and getting a bit nervous in regards to jumping into the supercharger world until I saw 680 rwhp listed, that motor was thumping for sure.
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:50 AM   #25
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Everyone thank you so much for your input, I am definitely going to supercharge it, I have been working with ragin Racin and have not heard/ experienced anything but good work, Ted I definitely want to talk about that vortech set up and see what we can do, I have about 4 other Camaro owners interested as well, call me at 337 366 4016---- also I heard the meth injection was very effective along with an oil cooler. I'm trying not to forge my internals right now, eventually yes, 2 years from now yes. My goals are to walk all over a Shelby gt 500 lol. 05 06 07 gt, new 5.0 down, cobra and Shelby to go! Haha go Camaro!
Nice Talking with you today Mike, I Look forward to working with you.

Ted.
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