Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Vararam
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Camaro Issues / Problems | Warranty Discussions | TSB and Recalls


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-24-2011, 06:28 AM   #1
572HP
ACE5 (Atlanta Group)
 
572HP's Avatar
 
Drives: "Black Ice"
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Suwanee, GA
Posts: 1,703
SS Automatic Active Fuel Management

I'm hoping this will catch the eyes of the faithful GM support reps that frequent this site. I would like to hear what GM engineers have to say. I'm hoping that this can be discussed on this forum, instead of a phone call to GM.

I have a friend (on this board) that just sold his camaro and bought a mustang. His main reason for this is that he had an SS with an automatic transmission. He actually had an Indy Pace Car. Along with the SS and auto trans, you also get displacement-on-demand (aka AFM). He told me that he sold the car because he could not stand the AFM, and disabling it in the tuning options would void some of your drivetrain warranty.

My first camaro was a 2010 SS with a manual transmission. Earlier this year I bought a 2011 SS automatic convertible. I love everything about the car except AFM. I hate it! My dealer says that they are not allowed to turn off AFM.

I would like to know why turning off AFM will void the warranty...and why it is in the tuning menu at all. Is there an engineering reason? Is it due to some federal regulations...or making sure enough of the GM lineup has high enough fuel mileage?

This board is full of discussions on AFM, and how many people hate the feature. Is GM just willing to let people be dissatisfied with a great product because of this? It surely doesn't make sense. People ask me all the time if I love my new convertible. I always say yes, except for the AFM.

Can we get some GM discussion? Anyone else agree?

UPDATES
In an effort to summarize this thread, I'll update this first post with what I feel are the important posts.

Post #28 from Jeff Morris, Chevrolet Customer Service
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevrolet Customer Svc View Post
Unfortunately I don't have any information whether from my technical department or my other resources on whether or not tuning this system out would negatively affect the rest of the vehicle. I am also not sure why this feature is inculded with the vehicle. Also to answer another question that you have, AFM should deactivate if you put the vehicle into manual mode (either Sports mode or Tap-shift). Once you put the vehicle back into D mode the AFM system would then re-activate and act upon your vehicle normally. I hope that helps to answer some of your questions.
Post #32 from Jeff Morris, Chevrolet Customer Service
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevrolet Customer Svc View Post
The only information that I have to go one are the e-mails that I have that were sent between myself and our techincal department which I am not allowed to divulge. Also we have agents within the department that work solely with our different vehicles and this answer came from the person that works with the Camaro. If your dealership is unwilling to work with you on this subject I would suggest you ask them to speak with our technical department themselves. I hope that helps you.
Post #49 from Jeff Morris, Chevrolet Customer Service
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevrolet Customer Svc View Post
I'm sorry Jeremy but I can't give out specific information in regards to this subject. All I personally have are internal e-mails and I cannot share those with the general public. I would simply have your dealership service person call our technical team to speak with them about this. Other than that I can't be any more specific. I'm sorry I can't be of more help to you in this situation.
Post #96 from 572HP
Quote:
Originally Posted by 572HP View Post
I just got back from the dealer. Here is what was said:

Quote:
Customer states that the Active Fuel Management is not disengaging when in sports or tap shift mode. Call TAC Case 975558370 Operating As Designed - AFM Disengages only on 2010 normal operation.
Jeff...I have a 2011. What is my next step?
Post #98 from 572HP
Quote:
Originally Posted by 572HP View Post


So per Jeff's suggestion (PM'd), I called and opened a case with GM. Case 71-975740962. After explaining my situation, the person I talked with put me on hold for about 10 minutes while he called my dealership and talked with my service advisor. When he came back, he said that they were told that it was working as designed, and nothing would be done about it, but the engineering team would get a copy of the complaint for possible future design decisions.

I guess GM is just willing to let a bunch of unhappy customers spread the word.
Post #131 from 572HP
Quote:
Originally Posted by 572HP View Post
I sent a letter to the Service Director at my dealership asking for their assistance. They forwarded my letter to GM, and here is the response that I received:

Quote:
The long and short of it is we MUST meet criteria established by the EPA and tons of other federal agencies. I wish it was like it was in the good old days when we could do just about anything we wanted when it came to performance but it's not that way anymore. Performance cars of today and tomorrow WILL be different than in the past. That doesn't mean they wont be great cars but they will be different.

Dwellion Howard
District Manager - Aftersales
General Motors - Southeast Region
Customer Care and Aftersales
__________________

Last edited by 572HP; 08-25-2011 at 12:07 PM.
572HP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 07:14 AM   #2
L99CAMA2011


 
L99CAMA2011's Avatar
 
Drives: One of the baddest handling Gen 5s
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Masachusetts
Posts: 3,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by 572HP View Post
I'm hoping this will catch the eyes of the faithful GM support reps that frequent this site. I would like to hear what GM engineers have to say. I'm hoping that this can be discussed on this forum, instead of a phone call to GM.

I have a friend (on this board) that just sold his camaro and bought a mustang. His main reason for this is that he had an SS with an automatic transmission. He actually had an Indy Pace Car. Along with the SS and auto trans, you also get displacement-on-demand (aka AFM). He told me that he sold the car because he could not stand the AFM, and disabling it in the tuning options would void some of your drivetrain warranty.

My first camaro was a 2010 SS with a manual transmission. Earlier this year I bought a 2011 SS automatic convertible. I love everything about the car except AFM. I hate it! My dealer says that they are not allowed to turn off AFM.

I would like to know why turning off AFM will void the warranty...and why it is in the tuning menu at all. Is there an engineering reason? Is it due to some federal regulations...or making sure enough of the GM lineup has high enough fuel mileage?

This board is full of discussions on AFM, and how many people hate the feature. Is GM just willing to let people be dissatisfied with a great product because of this? It surely doesn't make sense. People ask me all the time if I love my new convertible. I always say yes, except for the AFM.

Can we get some GM discussion? Anyone else agree?
Yeah I hate it also, there should be an AFM/DOD option button in my opinion. That's one reason I refer to this as my robot car. Plus for performance it is not that great. Also I don't notice any advantage in fuel economy anyway even with it. I also hate the fact that when it engages it sounds like the AC at my house kicking in.
L99CAMA2011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 07:22 AM   #3
CFD



 
Drives: 2SS/RS L99 BLACK
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dedham
Posts: 5,706
Agreed. Absolutely no difference in mileage with it de-activated even when highway cruising. I suppose if we all drove the cars in a manner to maximize gas mileage there would be a difference but GM buit us a performance car with a non-performance feature that adds to the cost of manufacturing, is prone to failure and warranty claims and everyone seems to hate but if you want this car we have to deal with it. It would be great to hear GM's reasoning behind it as the op requested.
CFD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 07:24 AM   #4
cam62

 
Drives: 2012 IBM Vert 2SS/rs
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,158
I read somewhere that AFM helps avoid the gas guzzler tax.
cam62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 07:34 AM   #5
Padre
Only drives on Sundays
 
Padre's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 2SS/RS, Black/Inferno, L99 A6
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Dalton, GA
Posts: 2,416
Lost all of 1 MPG when I turned mine off. Good riddance.

It is not turning off AFM that voids the warranty. Changing the tune in the ECM is what MAY cause it to be voided. Of course, there's no other way to turn off AFM permanently.

However, there is a method to turn off AFM using the tap-shift. Temporarily. I'll let someone who knows the how explain.

Padre
__________________

The "Heretic": '11 2SS/RS L99 A6 Black/Inferno. Build Journal, Videos
D1SC GT9 JBA-LT = 720/680 | 10.330 @ 133.61, 1.546 sixty... Camaro King at ECS V, Darlington.
Padre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 07:38 AM   #6
CFD



 
Drives: 2SS/RS L99 BLACK
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dedham
Posts: 5,706
I use tapshift all the time and don't think it turned off afm, I think the way you drive and the rpm range you use just doesn't allow it to kick in.
CFD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 07:41 AM   #7
572HP
ACE5 (Atlanta Group)
 
572HP's Avatar
 
Drives: "Black Ice"
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Suwanee, GA
Posts: 1,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padre View Post
Lost all of 1 MPG when I turned mine off. Good riddance.

It is not turning off AFM that voids the warranty. Changing the tune in the ECM is what MAY cause it to be voided. Of course, there's no other way to turn off AFM permanently.

However, there is a method to turn off AFM using the tap-shift. Temporarily. I'll let someone who knows the how explain.

Padre
I have used the tap-shift method on the highway. Comes in handy when you are going up a long gentle slope on the interstate. The car wants to go in and out of AFM, and downshifting into 5th pulls it out of AFM, but this would also hurt MPG. I also don't want to actively manage the car. That means that I am the automatic part of the transmission.

However, I would like to hear from GM on this. I'll give the support guys a couple of days on here to see if they are willing to help get some answers or solutions, and then I'll get opening a case.
__________________
572HP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 08:17 AM   #8
L99CAMA2011


 
L99CAMA2011's Avatar
 
Drives: One of the baddest handling Gen 5s
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Masachusetts
Posts: 3,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by cam62 View Post
I read somewhere that AFM helps avoid the gas guzzler tax.
Automotive politics my friend, saves us some cash on initial purchase but takes it back when AFM/DOD needs fixing out of warranty. LS3 for the win (FTW).
L99CAMA2011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 08:56 AM   #9
Camarowguy


 
Camarowguy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 imperial blue SS, black 92 RS
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denham Springs
Posts: 2,572
F that junk. It's disabled.
__________________
2011 imperial blue SS/RS a6 12.43@112 vararam, tune, jba cats, magnaflow axle back, self ported tb, under drive pulley, NO headers, Stock tires. 1.87 60ft. Stock tires.
2000 1500 silverado extra cab
Camarowguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 08:58 AM   #10
Camarowguy


 
Camarowguy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 imperial blue SS, black 92 RS
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denham Springs
Posts: 2,572
O and as soon as I can afford it, I'm removing it. Just more junk to deal with. Really gm? Like you could not have altered the tune to get another mpg or 2 out of it. You could have done many other things to gain some mileage, why this?
__________________
2011 imperial blue SS/RS a6 12.43@112 vararam, tune, jba cats, magnaflow axle back, self ported tb, under drive pulley, NO headers, Stock tires. 1.87 60ft. Stock tires.
2000 1500 silverado extra cab
Camarowguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 10:20 AM   #11
L99CAMA2011


 
L99CAMA2011's Avatar
 
Drives: One of the baddest handling Gen 5s
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Masachusetts
Posts: 3,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camarowguy View Post
O and as soon as I can afford it, I'm removing it. Just more junk to deal with. Really gm? Like you could not have altered the tune to get another mpg or 2 out of it. You could have done many other things to gain some mileage, why this?
Like lighter freaking wheels for example . lighter car, you know that sort of stuff.
L99CAMA2011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 10:56 AM   #12
572HP
ACE5 (Atlanta Group)
 
572HP's Avatar
 
Drives: "Black Ice"
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Suwanee, GA
Posts: 1,703
Guys...this is not a "Complain to GM about everything thread". Please post somewhere else. I would like some help from GM with AFM...which is what this thread is about.
__________________
572HP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2011, 09:42 AM   #13
Chevrolet Customer Svc


 
Chevrolet Customer Svc's Avatar
 
Drives: GM Vehicles
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,234
I'm sorry to hear all of the complaints about this system. Unfortunately tuning out this system from the vehicle would constitute as a modification and would then not be covered by GM. It would then be up to the dealership to cover you should you perform this work while under warranty. As to why this feature is still on the vehicles these days I do not have a solid answer for you. I could check into this with my technical department to see if they might have any sort of reason as to why it is included with the vehicle. I'm sorry I can't be of more help in this discussion.

Jeff Morris, Chevrolet Customer Service
Chevrolet Customer Svc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2011, 09:54 AM   #14
572HP
ACE5 (Atlanta Group)
 
572HP's Avatar
 
Drives: "Black Ice"
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Suwanee, GA
Posts: 1,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevrolet Customer Svc View Post
I'm sorry to hear all of the complaints about this system. Unfortunately tuning out this system from the vehicle would constitute as a modification and would then not be covered by GM. It would then be up to the dealership to cover you should you perform this work while under warranty. As to why this feature is still on the vehicles these days I do not have a solid answer for you. I could check into this with my technical department to see if they might have any sort of reason as to why it is included with the vehicle. I'm sorry I can't be of more help in this discussion.

Jeff Morris, Chevrolet Customer Service
Thanks Jeff,
I would like to know from your technical department if there is any technical reason why I should not turn this off. I mean, is it going to break anything if this is disabled? I would also like to know if GM is not allowed to turn this off because of some political factor such as MPG ratings. We just need a little help here. These are awesome cars, but we are seeing people trade their cars and probably not buying camaros due to this one feature alone. I'd appreciate if you looked into some type of solution.
__________________
572HP is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Camaro5 invites you to say thanks to Camaro assemblers and tour the Martinrea plant! Hylton 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 646 12-23-2009 03:41 PM
65 Camaro's to choose from. tony_c Camaro Price | Ordering | Tracking | Dealers Discussions 25 08-29-2009 03:25 PM
Camaro ls3 news...true or false? Dark Knight Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 74 06-05-2008 05:29 PM
Active Fuel Management? MJA03 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 41 01-09-2008 02:25 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.