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Old 07-28-2011, 08:17 AM   #26
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The problem with turning it off in the tuning is the junk AFM lifters are still there.

The real solution is an LS3 auto, just like the Corvette. Maybe someone will see the light for the Gen 6.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:58 AM   #27
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Quote:
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The problem with turning it off in the tuning is the junk AFM lifters are still there.

The real solution is an LS3 auto, just like the Corvette. Maybe someone will see the light for the Gen 6.
The lifters are the same with or without AFM turned off. Because we can use paddles to have AFM off already. If GM keeps AFM in D mode, everything is just like normal. Just allow us to have it off in S mode.

Don't think this is going to be a Gen 6's problem with a lighter body and smaller and more efficient engine = better MPG.

Hoping to hear from Jeff and the FBOBY man himself.
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:13 AM   #28
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Thanks Jeff,
I would like to know from your technical department if there is any technical reason why I should not turn this off. I mean, is it going to break anything if this is disabled? I would also like to know if GM is not allowed to turn this off because of some political factor such as MPG ratings. We just need a little help here. These are awesome cars, but we are seeing people trade their cars and probably not buying camaros due to this one feature alone. I'd appreciate if you looked into some type of solution.
Unfortunately I don't have any information whether from my technical department or my other resources on whether or not tuning this system out would negatively affect the rest of the vehicle. I am also not sure why this feature is inculded with the vehicle. Also to answer another question that you have, AFM should deactivate if you put the vehicle into manual mode (either Sports mode or Tap-shift). Once you put the vehicle back into D mode the AFM system would then re-activate and act upon your vehicle normally. I hope that helps to answer some of your questions.

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Old 07-28-2011, 11:18 AM   #29
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Unfortunately I don't have any information whether from my technical department or my other resources on whether or not tuning this system out would negatively affect the rest of the vehicle. I am also not sure why this feature is inculded with the vehicle. Also to answer another question that you have, AFM should deactivate if you put the vehicle into manual mode (either Sports mode or Tap-shift). Once you put the vehicle back into D mode the AFM system would then re-activate and act upon your vehicle normally. I hope that helps to answer some of your questions.

Jeff Morris, Chevrolet Customer Service
Thanks again for your help Jeff! I would be satisfied if AFM was disabled if you move the shifter down into manual mode (sports mode). However, this doesn't seem to be the case, at least for my car. Others have reported the same thing. Is there something that you can point us to that shows that this is suppose to be the case? When I show up to the dealer to get them to fix this, I don't want them to be able to say that it works as it is supposed to.

Thanks Jeff!
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:33 AM   #30
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I was told by a member of the engineering team (someone who should know), at a trade show, that AFM definitely DOES work in both D & M modes. Whether it "kicks in" is dependant on the load on the engine (I believe he said it is fuel demand that does it). That is why you can sometimes avoid it by using paddles... but for sure in my car, sometimes it kicks in even if you use the paddles. You can kind of train yourself to drive around it, so to speak. But it's still a lousy system. I've also been told that it is sensitive to both temperature and altitude, but I can't verify that.
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:14 PM   #31
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I can attest that AFM will kick in if I'm in 6th gear in Tap-Shift mode if my speed isnt too high. (i.e. 50-60 mph)

I never felt it kick in on lower gears but I'm not usually in them long enough so I may just not have hit the right variables.

AFM definitely kicks in in Sport mode (non-tap-shift) since that is what I drive in on a daily basis and it kicks in even under light acceleration sometimes. (very annoying)
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:21 PM   #32
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The only information that I have to go one are the e-mails that I have that were sent between myself and our techincal department which I am not allowed to divulge. Also we have agents within the department that work solely with our different vehicles and this answer came from the person that works with the Camaro. If your dealership is unwilling to work with you on this subject I would suggest you ask them to speak with our technical department themselves. I hope that helps you.

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Old 07-28-2011, 01:51 PM   #33
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The only information that I have to go one are the e-mails that I have that were sent between myself and our techincal department which I am not allowed to divulge. Also we have agents within the department that work solely with our different vehicles and this answer came from the person that works with the Camaro. If your dealership is unwilling to work with you on this subject I would suggest you ask them to speak with our technical department themselves. I hope that helps you.

Jeff Morris, Chevrolet Customer Service


Thanks for the info, Jeff. I will definitely talk to my service manager next week when I take the car in for a checkup.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:43 PM   #34
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Thanks again for your help Jeff! I would be satisfied if AFM was disabled if you move the shifter down into manual mode (sports mode). However, this doesn't seem to be the case, at least for my car. Others have reported the same thing. Is there something that you can point us to that shows that this is suppose to be the case? When I show up to the dealer to get them to fix this, I don't want them to be able to say that it works as it is supposed to.

Thanks Jeff!
My car would always be off in tapshift mode but would be on in sport mode..... maybe GM can at least solve this inconsistency, even better would be the "off" in sport mode and tapshift.... stir it up Jeff, maybe we'll get something done. Thanks for the help.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:55 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Mike's LazruSS View Post
I was told by a member of the engineering team (someone who should know), at a trade show, that AFM definitely DOES work in both D & M modes. Whether it "kicks in" is dependant on the load on the engine (I believe he said it is fuel demand that does it). That is why you can sometimes avoid it by using paddles... but for sure in my car, sometimes it kicks in even if you use the paddles. You can kind of train yourself to drive around it, so to speak. But it's still a lousy system. I've also been told that it is sensitive to both temperature and altitude, but I can't verify that.
Excellent post. Been driving the car exclusively in S mode since I drove it off the lot. AFM does not 'deactivate' just by moving out of D. You can work around it using the 'paddles' but AFM is always there, waiting to bite you in the ass.
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:13 PM   #36
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I can attest that AFM will kick in if I'm in 6th gear in Tap-Shift mode if my speed isnt too high. (i.e. 50-60 mph)

I never felt it kick in on lower gears but I'm not usually in them long enough so I may just not have hit the right variables.

AFM definitely kicks in in Sport mode (non-tap-shift) since that is what I drive in on a daily basis and it kicks in even under light acceleration sometimes. (very annoying)
This is exactly the way I remember it... the lower gears are shorter and if I did keep it in these gears the RPMs were too high for DOD to activate

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Originally Posted by godeepdown View Post
I'll try it. I know the difference between manual and sport. I know if I just use the paddles it kicks in. Never tried the 2-3-2 thing. I did buy an auto tho and don't want to have to mess with the paddles. Hard to shift in a corner the way they are set up too. I really would love a factory tune that would turn it off.
Each gear is different w/ the shifter in D or M... DOD can be tuned off or on for each gear independently in both modes (total of 12 settings). It is too bad this constitutes a tune, but I know a lot of dealers look the other way on this one but you better check first. Mine used to be active in 5th & 6th gear D only, off everywhere else.
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I was told by a member of the engineering team (someone who should know), at a trade show, that AFM definitely DOES work in both D & M modes. Whether it "kicks in" is dependant on the load on the engine (I believe he said it is fuel demand that does it). That is why you can sometimes avoid it by using paddles... but for sure in my car, sometimes it kicks in even if you use the paddles. You can kind of train yourself to drive around it, so to speak. But it's still a lousy system. I've also been told that it is sensitive to both temperature and altitude, but I can't verify that.


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Excellent post. Been driving the car exclusively in S mode since I drove it off the lot. AFM does not 'deactivate' just by moving out of D. You can work around it using the 'paddles' but AFM is always there, waiting to bite you in the ass.
You are correct.. excellent post...
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:28 PM   #37
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I wanted an automatic, but if I had been able to drive one before I ordered it, I would have known how terrible the AFM is and would have ordered the manual (even though I'm tired of driving sticks).

It's a crying shame that such a lousy system had to be incorporated into an otherwise superb muscle car. The only reason that two-ton resonator is on the L99 is to hide the AFM from unsuspecting drivers who think they bought a true performance machine. I would have gladly paid the extra money to cover the gas-guzzler tax.

Who buys a Camaro to bang around on four cylinders?! It's totally asinine.

Oh well. My AFM is long gone, along with my power train warranty. Good riddance!
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:32 PM   #38
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And another thing. The mere fact that so many people are willing to sacrifice their warranties to get rid of it should be a clear message to GM that AFM is not a crowd pleaser.
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Old 07-29-2011, 12:32 AM   #39
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Disabling AFM using paddle shifters

Wow, there has been a lot of discussion on the behavior of AFM on these cars.

I have owned two L99s, the first was a 2010 2SS coupe and now my 2011 2SS vert. Both have behaved the exact same regarding AFM.

AFM was only disabled when the transmission was in Sport or Manual mode "AND" I used the paddle shifters to manually "downshift" from 2nd gear or higher.

For both cars, when I would start out and shift from Park to Sport mode and then use the paddle shifter (while still stopped) to go to first, AFM would still kick in under low loads as I manually up-shifted to second gear, third gear, etc.
But as soon as I manually "downshifted" from second gear (or higher gear) using the paddle shifter, AFM was disabled and stayed disabled until I shifted back into drive "D" mode.
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:39 AM   #40
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My 2010 L99 does go to 4 cylinders in M, but only when cruising in 6th gear.

Personally, AFM does not bother me. The noisey lifters are another matter. I hear that even 2011s have the tapping on start-up problem. (Why hasn't it been fixed yet?

Mine is intermittent and never lasts more than a second or two, so I have left it alone. But it's annoying.

I hope the LS1 auto either drops the4 AFM or gets better lifters. This will be the deciding factor for me on LS1 vs Shelby Mustang.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:51 AM   #41
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Wow, there has been a lot of discussion on the behavior of AFM on these cars.

I have owned two L99s, the first was a 2010 2SS coupe and now my 2011 2SS vert. Both have behaved the exact same regarding AFM.

AFM was only disabled when the transmission was in Sport or Manual mode "AND" I used the paddle shifters to manually "downshift" from 2nd gear or higher.

For both cars, when I would start out and shift from Park to Sport mode and then use the paddle shifter (while still stopped) to go to first, AFM would still kick in under low loads as I manually up-shifted to second gear, third gear, etc.
But as soon as I manually "downshifted" from second gear (or higher gear) using the paddle shifter, AFM was disabled and stayed disabled until I shifted back into drive "D" mode.
This definitely seems to be the consensus. Thanks for sharing.

...and KCMD you are dead on, the message about folks ELECTING to turn off DOD knowing they lose the factory warranty should ring clear. I'm sure the Warranty is worth more than the gas guzzler tax.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:38 AM   #42
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I'ts funny because AFM never bothered me that much but there may be an explanation for it. Although I never knew about the "magical" shift sequence of 2-3-2 and will probably never know,I always use tapshift and drive a bit aggressiveley so around town there are many times where I would shift to 3rd and then immediately downshift to second because of traffic. Because of the two perhaps I was deactivating the feature and /or driving outside of it's parameters unkowingly. Now that it has been disabled is when you realize the difference. As mentioned above surely between waranty work on the system, the added cost of the components to support the system and customer dissatisfaction the gas guzzler tax would be cheaper and more acceptable to most of us, I mean who the hell bought this car for gas mileage, if you did, you as well as GM should wake up and smell the rubber burning.
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Old 07-29-2011, 04:45 PM   #43
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I would have gladly paid the extra money to cover the gas-guzzler tax.
This is what I am currently thinking as well.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:52 PM   #44
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In addition to the gas guzzler tax. As a whole GM has to meet an average level of MPG among all cars sold. Which means they need to sell a whole bunch of Volts so they can average out the MPG of high performance cars and SUV's. Maybe someone knows more details without getting political, but I think it has to do with the bailout. Don't quote me on that.

My Tahoe has AFM and it displays in the DIC what mode you are in. Here are two pics with V4 mode active. One in Drive and one in Manual while using the Tahoe version of tap shift... both were 6th gear.
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Old 08-01-2011, 03:38 AM   #45
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The only information that I have to go one are the e-mails that I have that were sent between myself and our techincal department which I am not allowed to divulge. Also we have agents within the department that work solely with our different vehicles and this answer came from the person that works with the Camaro. If your dealership is unwilling to work with you on this subject I would suggest you ask them to speak with our technical department themselves. I hope that helps you.

Jeff Morris, Chevrolet Customer Service
Jeff,

Any info you have that I could take to the dealer would be greatly appreciated. Or maybe contact info for the proper tech services people to have the dealer talk to.

Thanks
Jeremy
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:56 AM   #46
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This is simply a recommendation for Chevy, and to support the current talk of deactivating the AFM, through GM. Proof, that they can do it!

When I purchased my 2009 Turbocharged Cobalt SS, GM shortly released what they called a "STAGE 1 KIT". I am not going to get into the technicalities of the "Stage 1 kit", BUT it ultimately was a Tune that re-mapped the airflow sensors, removed the 'learn-down' feature for bolt-on mods, and it also boosted the amount of PSI the turbocharger could push from 16psi to 24psi. The end result was a car that put down 260hp/260 ft lbs of torque, stock, to a car that could put down 280HP/320ft lbs of torque (which was a lot for a 3,000lb car). Okay okay, so what's my point?! IT DIDN'T VOID THE FACTORY POWERTRAIN WARRANTY!

It was $1000 for basically a Facotry Re-tune, that HAD TO BE DONE AT THE DEALER. But for the amount of horsepower/torque that was gained just from the tune, and the ability to have the 'learn-down' feature removed, so I could add bolt-ons for even more HP/TQ, it was WORTH IT!

All I am saying is this... CHEVY! MAKE A STAGE 1 KIT or do a RETUNE FOR THE AUTOMATIC CAMARO'S! WE KNOW YOU CAN DO IT! AND WE WILL PAY TO KEEP OUR WARRANTY!
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Old 08-01-2011, 12:15 PM   #47
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Just dropped my car off for service and had a talk with my service manager. His position is pretty clear. This AFM deactivating option must come from GM; i.e. as long as GM will provide a new program to reload, he will be glad to put it in. Otherwise, he can't go in there with a tuner to change any thing in the current/stock program without screwing up your warranty. GM should provide a new program to deactivate AFM in Sport Mode and keep AFM in D mode as an upgrade option. This option will make their customers a lot happier than the current situation.
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Old 08-01-2011, 12:25 PM   #48
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Just dropped my car off for service and had a talk with my service manager. His position is pretty clear. This AFM deactivating option must come from GM; i.e. as long as GM will provide a new program to reload, he will be glad to put it in. Otherwise, he can't go in there with a tuner to change any thing in the current/stock program without screwing up your warranty. GM should provide a new program to deactivate AFM in Sport Mode and keep AFM in D mode as an upgrade option. This option will make their customers a lot happier than the current situation.
Then did the service manager suggest that you contact GM support directly? Or are they going to contact them?
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Old 08-01-2011, 03:06 PM   #49
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Jeff,

Any info you have that I could take to the dealer would be greatly appreciated. Or maybe contact info for the proper tech services people to have the dealer talk to.

Thanks
Jeremy
I'm sorry Jeremy but I can't give out specific information in regards to this subject. All I personally have are internal e-mails and I cannot share those with the general public. I would simply have your dealership service person call our technical team to speak with them about this. Other than that I can't be any more specific. I'm sorry I can't be of more help to you in this situation.

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Old 08-01-2011, 08:28 PM   #50
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Then did the service manager suggest that you contact GM support directly? Or are they going to contact them?
His Regional GM contact person have basically said NO to any changes to the OEM program/tune for ALL GM vehicles as recent as 3 weeks ago. His explanation is simply that, the dealer still have to report your current tune to GM for approval of the warrantied works. If the tune of your VIN does not match the GM's database, your warranty will be denied. The only way around this is if GM was to sell/provide an upgrade factory tune as an option, then GM can update their database and the dealer can install the new tune.

I am still hoping for a better answer from Jeff and/or other GM reps on this forum as to the specific name/channel that we all should be contacting.
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