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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 03-26-2012, 12:33 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
As always well presented Lowdown. There is the profit that's built into the base model that carries over through all models. There are weight saving items than can be replaced, such as the seats, with dedicated racing buckets. As you stated, further weight reduction can be potentially found with [minimizing] sound insultation and other unneccessary creature comforts or options that appeal to a wide consumer market, not needed for the street/track consumer Zee creature. 19's all around...no nav, no console, no floor gauges, no push button steering wheel, no rear cam...you know the drill well! All the bells, whistles, comforts, options, packages, town car stuff is in the ZL1. It's the 4 course meal of high performance American cars! Can't we just get meat and potatoes on the Z/28, hold the frills please....
...and if you want Packages from the Brougham Edition, just tick the boxes (2SS, SuperSound etc.)...and stay away from the weigh-scales...

V8 Camaros:
1SS = $32-and-up
2SS = $36-up
"Dusk" - under $40
1SS-1LE = $42-up
2SS-2LE = $46-up
Z/28 = $48-and-change
ZL1 = $54-up

Now, we're just like those special exposed electrode spark plugs...GAPLE$$.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:24 PM   #277
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After reading some of the posts on here, a question came to mind - is it possible to have a Z28 and a ZL1 in the same Camaro line? For those hardcore to have the 1LE to be the Z28, it would only be sensible to achieve a lighter Camaro than the SS is to have GM utilize lighter materials like carbon fiber but then that also might make it costlier to produce. Another alternative would be if they developed a lighter yet stronger type of steel that would be less expensive a process than Carbon fiber, or an aluminum that has all the same characteristics and strengths of steel.

I think GM would have to make the Camaro a little smaller to gain some substantive weight loss in order to make the power/weight ratio something that would make the overall automotive populace say "YES - that's the ticket", but the argument could be made that now your sacrificing, legroom, trunkspace, etc.

Now getting back to the original question, If GM develops the Z28 close to what the major consensus of what it should be, I think it's going to be difficult to really distinguish between the two performance wise because:

1. the Z28 is 'supposed' to be lighter and less horsepower but stonger internals and NA.

2. the ZL1 is heavier but more horsepower

yet both are technically going to be track cars(ok the Z28 will be more for the strip probably ) so aerodynamically and suspension wise about the same, yes?
So, again the power to weight ratio comes into play here and I have a feeling we'll be splitting hairs here.
I know a lot of guys here want the Z28 to have a different appearance from the front mostly but it still doesn't really seperate it from the ZL1 that much, appearance wise. It's my opinion and speculation that I think that GM is aware of these subtlies and in order not to "cross-contaminate" sales, that they will come out with the 'hallowed' Z28 in the 6th Gen after utilizing and perfecting the technology of the ZL1 and thus replacing and retiring the ZL1 - though this might be strongly influenced by market conditions and demand if it continues to improve (as long as we don't have another market upheaval and major recession) All these are what ifs, but either way, for now, we are winning.

edit: I think OldSchool has it nailed




OH MY!!!
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:36 PM   #278
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With the new 2013 Boss 302, it would be perfect for GM to come out with a 2013 Z/28. These cars competed head to head in the late 60's and early 70's in SCCA Trans Am racing.

We would need to see a HP bump for the Camaro and some kind of track package, which would bump the price. It would be more than a 2SS but a Boss is more than a GT so I think the Z28 would slot perfectly between an SS and a ZL1.
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:39 PM   #279
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With the new 2013 Boss 302, it would be perfect for GM to come out with a 2013 Z/28. These cars competed head to head in the late 60's and early 70's in SCCA Trans Am racing.

We would need to see a HP bump for the Camaro and some kind of track package, which would bump the price. It would be more than a 2SS but a Boss is more than a GT so I think the Z28 would slot perfectly between an SS and a ZL1.
I think your wrong. It wouldn't be perfect for GM to release a Z/28 just because Ford has the 2013 Boss.

The "1LE" package has just been confirmed for 2013. The "Z/28" that all of us want will be something simply amazing and what better way to introduce that to us via the 6thGen.

Chevrolet wants to continue to hold the lead. If you release every Camaro version known to man all in a 3 year time span your headed for failure.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:10 AM   #280
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With the new 2013 Boss 302, it would be perfect for GM to come out with a 2013 Z/28. These cars competed head to head in the late 60's and early 70's in SCCA Trans Am racing.

We would need to see a HP bump for the Camaro and some kind of track package, which would bump the price. It would be more than a 2SS but a Boss is more than a GT so I think the Z28 would slot perfectly between an SS and a ZL1.
You're talking back in the 60's and 70's. Guess what? Today's races in the SCCA Trans Am racing use cars from the 60's and 70's. so I don't see how that relates to them bringing out a spec z/28 car for the sake of coming out the same year as the Boss.

The Z/28 will come out when GM feels it will be worthy of them to produce it to meet the demands of those that truly desire the car for what it's original intention was meant for - being a track car first over a street car.

I also believe that there are planned stages as to when these cars are released to the public for consumption and it is a firm belief among several members here we will not see it until the next Gen. But that's only speculation.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:28 PM   #281
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So back to the thread question; "Will there be a Z/28?" Chances for a Gen5 just got slimmer. Like many of us suspected the 1LE is an SS option. We do know a worthy Z/28 will someday appear and be worthy of our wait. So we can assume the next Z/28 will have it's own (compared to the rest of the Camaro lineup) engine. I've said before we're going to have to wait on the C7 Corvette to see that. So the timing is definitely looking more and more like a Gen6 Z/28 debut. I believe the Gen6 will start out with a LS,LT,SS, Z/28 lineup and no 1LE or ZL1; at least for a few model years.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:22 PM   #282
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STOP THE PRESSES!

Now that I've had time to digest what has taken place I believe more than ever before that there will be a 5Gen Z28.

Why?

Because the 1LE is not its own nameplate, but an option on the SS. This allows for another nameplate to be introduced. It also allows for a reasonable priced upgrade over the SS for the more performanced based customer with a little extra change.

Also the facts that the 1LE has NO MRC or that the Braking system in the 1LE is a 4/4 design and not a 6/4 design as shown on the show car. Why after Fbod said in the poll for the 1LE "AS SHOWN"? Very Smart GM, saving the MRC and the 6/4 Brakes for the Z28. And add to it that Fbod said "we are never done" (read between the lines).

I believe more than ever that the 5Gen Z28 will come to fruition!!!
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:33 PM   #283
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[sound of crickets]
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CAFE STANDARDS! Get used to them or vote our electeds in Washington out of office...........
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:12 PM   #284
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[sound of crickets]
[microphone in office named "Z28 LAUNCH ROOM" - with no vending machines... ]
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:49 PM   #285
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[microphone in office named "Z28 LAUNCH ROOM" - with no vending machines... ]
[and no chairs]
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CAFE STANDARDS! Get used to them or vote our electeds in Washington out of office...........

Last edited by Bad@ssCamaro; 03-28-2012 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:05 PM   #286
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The way things are going after the announcement of the "1LE", I am concerned the brain trust in position at GM may just deliver us a TT 6 cylinder Z/28 for MY 2016..., I think Lowdown and 2cnChance should be hired as consultants. Someone from Mr. Hendricks engine shop should also be brought in to show the tenured text book motor engineer's at GM how it's done and get the project through.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:34 AM   #287
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The way things are going after the announcement of the "1LE", I am concerned the brain trust in position at GM may just deliver us a TT 6 cylinder Z/28 for MY 2016..., I think Lowdown and 2cnChance should be hired as consultants. Someone from Mr. Hendricks engine shop should also be brought in to show the tenured text book motor engineer's at GM how it's done and get the project through.
Please say it ain't so......a 6 cylinder in a Z/28.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:57 AM   #288
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Guys-Guys-Guys!!

Think about this for a minute...per my listing above, by deleting MRC, 1LE is now "under 40K"...and apparently matches/betters the $48K BOSS LS @ VIR. Can you say, "Bargain!"? Can you say, "Volume!"? Good on you, GM!

[but it ain't no ZEE, right? ]

NOW...there's STILL a $10-15K spread from a 1LE to a ZL1...and about 7 seconds @ VIR...

[tap-tap-tap]

Hear that? That's NOT a rod...that's "opportunity" knockin'...

The OTHER thing to keep in mind: all those folks who have or will order a $54-60K+ ZL1 are just now about to get theirs, right? What disarray would befall the Camaro market if SUDDENLY, at ZL1 Launch, there was a $5-10K less expensive version that could ALMOST match the ZL1's VIR performance?!

So let the ZL1 guys have their moment in the sun...and get YOUR SPF 30 ready...
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Old 03-29-2012, 07:15 PM   #289
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Guys-Guys-Guys!!

Think about this for a minute...per my listing above, by deleting MRC, 1LE is now "under 40K"...and apparently matches/betters the $48K BOSS LS @ VIR. Can you say, "Bargain!"? Can you say, "Volume!"? Good on you, GM!

[but it ain't no ZEE, right? ]

NOW...there's STILL a $10-15K spread from a 1LE to a ZL1...and about 7 seconds @ VIR...

[tap-tap-tap]

Hear that? That's NOT a rod...that's "opportunity" knockin'...

The OTHER thing to keep in mind: all those folks who have or will order a $54-60K+ ZL1 are just now about to get theirs, right? What disarray would befall the Camaro market if SUDDENLY, at ZL1 Launch, there was a $5-10K less expensive version that could ALMOST match the ZL1's VIR performance?!

So let the ZL1 guys have their moment in the sun...and get YOUR SPF 30 ready...
Way to school them Lowdown
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CAFE STANDARDS! Get used to them or vote our electeds in Washington out of office...........
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Old 03-29-2012, 07:17 PM   #290
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Lowdown, you work in engineering or marketing for GM?
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CAFE STANDARDS! Get used to them or vote our electeds in Washington out of office...........
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:34 PM   #291
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I'll take your silence as a yes?! [do I hear crickets?]
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CAFE STANDARDS! Get used to them or vote our electeds in Washington out of office...........
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:43 PM   #292
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Well...there's actually FOUR questions in that ONE question of yours...

Work? "Yes"
Engineering? "No"
Marketing? "Yes"
GM? "No"...
"Should I"?!
Should you what???
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:00 PM   #293
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Well...there's actually FOUR questions in that ONE question of yours...

Work? "Yes"
Engineering? "No"
Marketing? "Yes"
GM? "No"...
"Should I"?!
Should you what???
I see your dilemma, then you would be in a position like Fbodfather and Number #3 and you would have all this beforehand knowledge and then painstakingly unable to share it until after its officially unveiled. Yep, tough call
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CAFE STANDARDS! Get used to them or vote our electeds in Washington out of office...........
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:33 PM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro View Post
After reading some of the posts on here, a question came to mind - is it possible to have a Z28 and a ZL1 in the same Camaro line? For those hardcore to have the 1LE to be the Z28, it would only be sensible to achieve a lighter Camaro than the SS is to have GM utilize lighter materials like carbon fiber but then that also might make it costlier to produce. Another alternative would be if they developed a lighter yet stronger type of steel that would be less expensive a process than Carbon fiber, or an aluminum that has all the same characteristics and strengths of steel.

I think GM would have to make the Camaro a little smaller to gain some substantive weight loss in order to make the power/weight ratio something that would make the overall automotive populace say "YES - that's the ticket", but the argument could be made that now your sacrificing, legroom, trunkspace, etc.

Now getting back to the original question, If GM develops the Z28 close to what the major consensus of what it should be, I think it's going to be difficult to really distinguish between the two performance wise because:

1. the Z28 is 'supposed' to be lighter and less horsepower but stonger internals and NA.

2. the ZL1 is heavier but more horsepower

yet both are technically going to be track cars(ok the Z28 will be more for the strip probably ) so aerodynamically and suspension wise about the same, yes?
So, again the power to weight ratio comes into play here and I have a feeling we'll be splitting hairs here.
I know a lot of guys here want the Z28 to have a different appearance from the front mostly but it still doesn't really seperate it from the ZL1 that much, appearance wise. It's my opinion and speculation that I think that GM is aware of these subtlies and in order not to "cross-contaminate" sales, that they will come out with the 'hallowed' Z28 in the 6th Gen after utilizing and perfecting the technology of the ZL1 and thus replacing and retiring the ZL1 - though this might be strongly influenced by market conditions and demand if it continues to improve (as long as we don't have another market upheaval and major recession) All these are what ifs, but either way, for now, we are winning.

edit: I think OldSchool has it nailed




OH MY!!!
Let's stick a LS7 in the 1LE ride and call it a day....oh....except for the fact we need a cold air package....voila!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Z/28...Z/28.....Z/28
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:14 PM   #295
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Let's stick a LS7 in the 1LE ride and call it a day....oh....except for the fact we need a cold air package....voila!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Z/28...Z/28.....Z/28
That would be saweet! but what are your thoughts about 2 Zee's in the lineup?
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:17 PM   #296
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That would be saweet! but what are your thoughts about 2 Zee's in the lineup?
....and may I ask as silly question, where is the second Z/28 you refer to? I'm at a loss...
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:23 PM   #297
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....and may I ask as silly question, where is the second Z/28 you refer to? I'm at a loss...
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:25 PM   #298
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So you also think that they will retire the ZL1 after they reintroduce the Zed28?
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:38 PM   #299
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...or here's an even better question....where is the first????? LOL>....
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:43 PM   #300
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So you also think that they will retire the ZL1 after they reintroduce the Zed28?
......ooohhhhhhh, now I get it, you mean that Z/28...........LOL...
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