Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
TireRack
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions

5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions General 5th generation Camaro topics not covered by other subforums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-10-2011, 02:04 AM   #51
doc7000
 
Drives: 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lomita,CA
Posts: 275
Seriously the Pill, you always claim victory for the Mustang over the Camaro (and have always fallen short) and always come out with some nice spin to make it sound like there is nothing to see here..........

On the Dodge note they don't really view it as a direct competitor to the Mustang and Camaro but an alternative for someone who wants something a bit different. They have no issue with their lower production numbers as from my understanding that is what that program is built around.

As far as the 6th Gen Camaro its going to be fine, I don't know why you are declaring victory for the next Mustang over the next Camaro when really we know so little about both. It can go either way as always.......
doc7000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 02:40 AM   #52
thePill
Account Suspended
 
Drives: '11 Mustang GT Premium
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kaiserslauthern, Germany
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc7000 View Post
Seriously the Pill, you always claim victory for the Mustang over the Camaro (and have always fallen short) and always come out with some nice spin to make it sound like there is nothing to see here..........

On the Dodge note they don't really view it as a direct competitor to the Mustang and Camaro but an alternative for someone who wants something a bit different. They have no issue with their lower production numbers as from my understanding that is what that program is built around.

As far as the 6th Gen Camaro its going to be fine, I don't know why you are declaring victory for the next Mustang over the next Camaro when really we know so little about both. It can go either way as always.......
I wouldn't claim victory for either car at this point. Sales are horrible... The only advantages the Mustang had was that it was successful in 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008. Sales tapered off in 2009 but it still continues to sell at the Camaro's pace. The Challenger enjoys an advantage because it has the highest profit margin of the 3 with the limit in production and the higher MSRP. The Camaro's sales are currently as good as the sales of the decade old Mustang. Numbers for the first year should have been 150k, that would have been a decent year. It took Ford 3 consecutive years at a sales volume of 150k average to make a profit. After three years, the Camaro is just now breaching 200k units sold. Here is the real spin, there really isn't nothing to see here. The Camaro's sales for a new model are not impressive. The Mustang's sales are bad so what would that make the Camaro's current sales? The Camaro does create excitement but sadly it is limited to this website...
thePill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 03:26 AM   #53
Nightfall
"To Punish And Enslave"
 
Nightfall's Avatar
 
Drives: B E RS GBA #72541 3564 CC 220 CI
Join Date: May 2011
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 3,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePill View Post
I wouldn't claim victory for either car at this point. Sales are horrible... The only advantages the Mustang had was that it was successful in 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008. Sales tapered off in 2009 but it still continues to sell at the Camaro's pace. The Challenger enjoys an advantage because it has the highest profit margin of the 3 with the limit in production and the higher MSRP. The Camaro's sales are currently as good as the sales of the decade old Mustang. Numbers for the first year should have been 150k, that would have been a decent year. It took Ford 3 consecutive years at a sales volume of 150k average to make a profit. After three years, the Camaro is just now breaching 200k units sold. Here is the real spin, there really isn't nothing to see here. The Camaro's sales for a new model are not impressive. The Mustang's sales are bad so what would that make the Camaro's current sales? The Camaro does create excitement but sadly it is limited to this website...
i disagree with that last bit after owning one sence may and not to beat a dead horse but you own a mustang so.....
__________________

C.A.M.A.R.O- Constantly Adding Modifications Addiction Relentless Obsession
90% canadian 10% mexican 100% american muscle :flag2:
Nightfall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 06:05 AM   #54
10spokess
Wild and Cammed
 
Drives: 2002 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pasadena, MD
Posts: 758
So that means that there are more 5th gens out there than there are the Remodeled 4th gens 98-02 Thats insane. (212,370 4th gens, 236,329 5th gens)
__________________
10spokess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 07:37 AM   #55
Cam#7

 
Cam#7's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2LT IBM / SIM stripe 6M
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: STL
Posts: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10spokess View Post
So that means that there are more 5th gens out there than there are the Remodeled 4th gens 98-02 Thats insane. (212,370 4th gens, 236,329 5th gens)
Not sure what you mean by "Remodeled 4th gens". But from what I can gather there were over 650,000 Gen4 cars built.
__________________
Cam#7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 09:18 AM   #56
FenwickHockey65
General Motors Aficionado
 
FenwickHockey65's Avatar
 
Drives: 2003 GMC Envoy SLE/2000 Ford Ranger
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,749
Send a message via AIM to FenwickHockey65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam#7 View Post
Not sure what you mean by "Remodeled 4th gens". But from what I can gather there were over 650,000 Gen4 cars built.
Probably means MCE'd 4th gens. MCE was for '98 MY.
__________________
FenwickHockey65's GM Thread!

2003 GMC Envoy SLE - Airaid Cold Air Intake, Gibson Performance Catback Exhaust
2000 Ford Ranger XLT Regular Cab (State-issued)
FenwickHockey65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 12:03 PM   #57
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 22,006
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePill View Post
I wouldn't claim victory for either car at this point. Sales are horrible... The only advantages the Mustang had was that it was successful in 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008. Sales tapered off in 2009 but it still continues to sell at the Camaro's pace. The Challenger enjoys an advantage because it has the highest profit margin of the 3 with the limit in production and the higher MSRP. The Camaro's sales are currently as good as the sales of the decade old Mustang. Numbers for the first year should have been 150k, that would have been a decent year. It took Ford 3 consecutive years at a sales volume of 150k average to make a profit. After three years, the Camaro is just now breaching 200k units sold. Here is the real spin, there really isn't nothing to see here. The Camaro's sales for a new model are not impressive. The Mustang's sales are bad so what would that make the Camaro's current sales? The Camaro does create excitement but sadly it is limited to this website...
The Challenger costs about the same as the Camaro or Mustang, unless you are specifically looking at the SRT8 model which probably accounts for less than 10% of sales. Its built about an hour away from the Camaro, by the same union, so labour costs are almost identical between the two. Both cars have a similar drivetrain, similar suspension systems, similar interior features, and so on. So I can't see how there is going to be too much of a difference in build cost. So, they don't save any money on building them, and they don't charge more for them ... where is the extra profit margin coming from?

As for Camaro sales volume ... something tells me that launching a performance car in the worst recession ever is going to reduce the total sales. For some strange reason, when people are worried about losing their job (and house), they're not really concerned with buying a brand new car. Crazy I know, but thats what happened. That said, prior to launch, GM's estimates for the 2010 Camaro were 80k and they still managed to greatly exceed it despite the recession (which hadn't hit when GM mentioned their forecast)

As for Camaro excitement being limited to this website ...
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather
__________________

Camaro5 Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 07:47 PM   #58
10spokess
Wild and Cammed
 
Drives: 2002 Camaro SS
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pasadena, MD
Posts: 758
I was talking about post 98 model camaros I even said that in the post (98-02)
__________________
10spokess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 08:45 PM   #59
doc7000
 
Drives: 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lomita,CA
Posts: 275
Seriously the Pill?

I am not sure if I can agree with you on the sales of this market segment being bad, when you consider how many sales existed in this market in 2006 compared to today. It was something like 160,000 units total in the entire market segment. Today that number is over 200,000 units in the market segment so it has grown and with the help of the Camaro and the Dodge Challenger.

That is impressive especially if you consider the Mustang was selling those numbers when the US auto industry was bigger then it is today.

The main reason for the growth of the segment though would have to come down to the Camaro which has peaked interest from demographics that weren't even interested in American cars. This segment has stolen sales from other market segments which is exactly what it needed to do.

The Mustang is selling at the rate of Camaro (if you subtract the 10,000 difference in sales).

At the same time the Camaro sales model was built around 8,000 to 10,000 units a month so they are also dealing with a production limitation. If they started to sell lets say 12,000 units a month they would have to expand production beyond what they planned to ever do. So to move the goal post to a mark where GM never intended for the Camaro to be at in a down economy really isn't realistic and is just you looking for any reason to call the Camaro a failure and the Mustang a success.

The biggest flaw with the Mustang are its fans......
doc7000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 09:01 PM   #60
Axe
 
Axe's Avatar
 
Drives: have not ordered yet
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: poconos,pa
Posts: 183
Can you imagine your self-esteem being dependant on the car you drive? (cough, Pill, cough)
Axe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2011, 11:04 PM   #61
Cam#7

 
Cam#7's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2LT IBM / SIM stripe 6M
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: STL
Posts: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10spokess View Post
So that means that there are more 5th gens out there than there are the Remodeled 4th gens 98-02 Thats insane. (212,370 4th gens, 236,329 5th gens)

Sorry, I wasn't following what you meant by Remodeled 4th Gens. I get it now, you meant the facelift. So the 212,370 number is the 4th gens from 98-02. The production numbers sure do fall off every year after the facelift.
__________________
Cam#7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2011, 02:14 AM   #62
doc7000
 
Drives: 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lomita,CA
Posts: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe View Post
Can you imagine your self-esteem being dependant on the car you drive? (cough, Pill, cough)
I wouldn't know how that feels, I have a pretty big ****.....
doc7000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 04:43 PM   #63
PercyJWellingtonIII
Account Suspended
 
Drives: pontiac
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Md
Posts: 1,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tran View Post
July 2011 Delivery (sales) Stats:

Camaro July 2011 Deliveries (actual sales): 7,671
Total Deliveries in 2011: 56,432 (4.8% higher than same period last year)

July 2011 Production Stats:

Camaros Produced in July 2011: 4,522 (4,105 MY2012 / 417 MY2011)
Total Model Year 2011 Camaros produced: 106,987 (compared to total of 129,405 MY2010 produced)


Compared to Competition:

Mustang sold 6,805 units in July 2011 (45,846 year-to-date)
Challenger sold 3,509 units in July 2011

June 2011 stats: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156043
April 2011 stats: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150464


Great set of charts/graphs from Enator:

Attachment 271442

Attachment 271436

Attachment 271437

Attachment 271438

Attachment 271439

Attachment 271440

Attachment 271441

In Chart #2 why does mustang have a red chevy bowtie emblem??
PercyJWellingtonIII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 04:44 PM   #64
FenwickHockey65
General Motors Aficionado
 
FenwickHockey65's Avatar
 
Drives: 2003 GMC Envoy SLE/2000 Ford Ranger
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,749
Send a message via AIM to FenwickHockey65
Quote:
Originally Posted by PercyJWellingtonIII View Post
In Chart #2 why does mustang have a red chevy bowtie emblem??
...it doesn't?
__________________
FenwickHockey65's GM Thread!

2003 GMC Envoy SLE - Airaid Cold Air Intake, Gibson Performance Catback Exhaust
2000 Ford Ranger XLT Regular Cab (State-issued)
FenwickHockey65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 06:43 PM   #65
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 22,006
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by PercyJWellingtonIII View Post
In Chart #2 why does mustang have a red chevy bowtie emblem??
I assume this is what you're talking about:
Name:  mustang bowtie.jpg
Views: 150
Size:  2.7 KB
Look again, its just a square with a line behind it. Camaro has a diamond, Challenger has a triangle.

Plus, a Chevy Bowtie features a much thicker bar with both sides slanted to the right. The specific 'Red Chevy Bowtie' emblem is unique from most other versions of the bowtie in that it is simply a red outline of the emblem and not a solid colour.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather
__________________

Camaro5 Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2011, 11:25 PM   #66
daveagogo1
TRI COUNTY TAMPA
 
daveagogo1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 1SS/RS VR/BLK A6
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trinity, Florida
Posts: 6,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePill View Post
I wouldn't claim victory for either car at this point. Sales are horrible... The only advantages the Mustang had was that it was successful in 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008. Sales tapered off in 2009 but it still continues to sell at the Camaro's pace. The Challenger enjoys an advantage because it has the highest profit margin of the 3 with the limit in production and the higher MSRP. The Camaro's sales are currently as good as the sales of the decade old Mustang. Numbers for the first year should have been 150k, that would have been a decent year. It took Ford 3 consecutive years at a sales volume of 150k average to make a profit. After three years, the Camaro is just now breaching 200k units sold. Here is the real spin, there really isn't nothing to see here. The Camaro's sales for a new model are not impressive. The Mustang's sales are bad so what would that make the Camaro's current sales? The Camaro does create excitement but sadly it is limited to this website...

The very last sentence is horribly wrong. All you need to do is go to any decent sized local judged auto show where 5th gens are in the same class as the Mustangs. Every show i have been in this year 5th gens walked away with the hardware 3 to 1. Last large show here locally had 200+ cars. 12 5th gens won in class and 4 Mustangs won and none were stock. A totally insane customized Roush, A second Roush, A days old Boss 302 and a blown 5.0. Hell, i was entered in the wrong class. "Heavily modified" and i still won. Wrong class meaning i have ZERO performance mods beyond a CAI. That pretty much says it all.

I'm not bashing the Mustang but the facts are the facts.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by HufferSS View Post
Fast cars have rubber on the quarter panels...you sissies need to knock it off.

daveagogo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2011, 12:22 PM   #67
BowlingSS
Camaro Owner Since 1987
 
BowlingSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS L99 RJT
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Posts: 2,025
I'm would not bash the Mustang either but the facts are the facts.

Way to go Camaro.

Bill
__________________
2011 Camaro 2SS/RS L99 RJT
CAI, Inc. Cold Air Induction;ADM Scoop
Rx Catch Can;Rx Breather;Roto-Fab Washer Container
VMax Ported RJT Throttle Body
XSPower Headers and XSPower 3" Exhaust System
Elite Engineering Tunnel Brace,
Gorilla Wheel Lock System;
Tinted Windows 35%;EFILive Tune
BowlingSS is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
5th Gen Suspension -- The Book JusticePete Suspension / Brakes / Chassis 148 09-04-2013 02:28 PM
Transcript of Camaro ZL1 Q&A Webchat with Chevrolet Tran Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 38 02-17-2012 12:45 AM
August 2010 Camaro Sales and Production Figures. Camaro retakes lead over Mustang. Enator 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 118 09-07-2010 07:02 PM
Answeres to questions I have stumbled on dieseldave24v 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 13 02-23-2009 06:56 PM
UPCOMING CAMARO IMPORTANT DATES CamaroScotty 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 125 01-11-2009 12:31 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.