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V8 and V6 Transmissions / Driveline (6L80 / 6L50 / TR6060 / AY6) Driveshafts | Differentials | Gears | Rearends | Clutch | Shifters

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Old 08-03-2011, 11:06 PM   #1
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9" kit vs driveshaft and axles?

I'm approaching that rwhp range where I think I need to consider beefing up my drive train. I've done a bunch of reading on this topic, so please don't give me the "search is your friend" line. But, when I ask questions, I'm never quite sure when someone is trying to sell me something I don't need (overkill for my car) OR whether I am being safe and prudent with my choices. So, I need some help deciding on this from you kind smart folks who actually drive Camaros and aren't necessarily trying to sell me something.

Here is where I'm at:
L99 (LS3 conversion) very close to 600 rwhp with a maggie (3.4" pulley), cam, stall, and headers.
suspension - differential and cradle bushings, coilovers, railing arms, sway bars, etc.
(A complete list of mods is in the first post of my build thread - just click on my sig).

I use my car mostly for street driving, but I plan to drag race it occasionally and perhaps try autocross. I just put some drag radials (Nitto 555-R) on it this week.

Now, I'm trying to decide if I should install a drive shaft and axles OR get a 9" kit with pumpkin.
(Or should I leave it as is and wait for something to break before doing anything else?)

I've heard good and bad things about a 9" kit. Some say it's a good idea, but others say it's overkill for my rwhp and it would rob power. So, perhaps new axles and a driveshaft might be a better use of funds.

I'm posting this because I'm hoping those of you who know more about 9" kits, axles, and driveshafts will be able to shed some light based on your experiences.

I've heard that one piece driveshafts can add vibration. Is that your experience?

I don't have unlimited funds, but I want to try to avoid obvious problem areas and I want to learn about this.

Thanks for any and all helpful suggestions and info.
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:13 PM   #2
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Well, if you can afford the 9" kit, I'm pretty sure that comes with new axles and a new driveshaft. So, like I said....if you can afford it....do it!!!
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:18 PM   #3
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Well, if you can afford the 9" kit, I'm pretty sure that comes with new axles and a new driveshaft. So, like I said....if you can afford it....do it!!!
Yes, it does come with axles and driveshaft. But at a pretty high cost. Is it really worth that added cost at my rwhp level?
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Old 08-04-2011, 02:14 AM   #4
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If you go ahead and pay that cost, unless you get crazy with power you should never have to worry about it again. I'm assuming your talking about Driveshaft Shops Pumpkin upgrade. I've looked at it too. As the guy said above...if you can afford it do it.
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:09 AM   #5
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If you go ahead and pay that cost, unless you get crazy with power you should never have to worry about it again. I'm assuming your talking about Driveshaft Shops Pumpkin upgrade. I've looked at it too. As the guy said above...if you can afford it do it.
I am thinking about the GForce 9" kit.
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:19 AM   #6
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Well, if you buy just the upgraded axles and driveshaft now....and then sometime down the road, you decide you need to upgrade your rear diff., then your stuck with these upgrades that you can no longer use (you would have to sell them). Why not avoid the hassle, and again...if you can afford it, upgrade to the 9" kit now, then you can upgrade your rear gears at the same time too!!! For an A6, you can upgrade to 3.73's or maybe even 3.90's if they are available for the 9". It will be like a totally new car. And yes, both kits from either the DSS or GForce are bad-@$$!!! Personally, if I had the cash, I would be looking at the Lingenfelter 9.5" diff.,....now that is beyond bad-@$$!!!
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:27 AM   #7
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Well, if you buy just the upgraded axles and driveshaft now....and then sometime down the road, you decide you need to upgrade your rear diff., then your stuck with these upgrades that you can no longer use (you would have to sell them). Why not avoid the hassle, and again...if you can afford it, upgrade to the 9" kit now, then you can upgrade your rear gears at the same time too!!! For an A6, you can upgrade to 3.73's or maybe even 3.90's if they are available for the 9". It will be like a totally new car. And yes, both kits from either the DSS or GForce are bad-@$$!!! Personally, if I had the cash, I would be looking at the Lingenfelter 9.5" diff.,....now that is beyond bad-@$$!!!
Yeah, that was my fear... buy axles and driveshaft... stock pumpkin breaks... then what? Then, I would have to buy the whole 9" kit anyway.

On the other hand, if I'm pretty sure not to break the stock pumpkin with only a measly 600 rwhp, why waste the money? And, my understanding is that there is significant loss in rwhp when using a 9" kit.

I'm not familiar with Lingenfelter's 9/5" kit. I'm off to do some searching. Thanks!

Edit: found it. http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...egory_Code=C61
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:33 AM   #8
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I can't tell you what to do, but I'll tell you what I'm planning when I get to that level of hp. I hear the stock rear end and axles hold up with an auto at your power level. So with that being said, I was gonna wait till something breaks and then upgrade. The only precautionary thing I was gonna do is a girdle on the rear end and Jannety sell some kit for the posi unit. I wont ever do a 9" conversion because they soak up too power.
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:44 AM   #9
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600HP is nothing to scof at, that is a lot of power!!! Especially, considering "back in the day", it was quite a milestone to reach 300HP or 350HP, and those were the bad-@$$ muscle cars!!! That being said, I have not really heard of anyone trashing their OEM gears, but a gear upgrade is one of the BEST "bang-for-your-buck" upgrades you can do. I would just stay away from the Richmond gears....too many issues in my opinion. From what I've read on here, I think the 9" conversions do soak up about 20-24 RWHP, but I think that's pretty negligible considering the benefits....you won't "feel" that loss, especially with the gear upgrade!!! Here's some good reading (link below) about the Lingenfelter unit. It's really expensive, but at this point, I don't think you will find anything better.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119574
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:48 AM   #10
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I have over 100 passes and have around same hp levels, I just purchased the 1 piece driveshaft and that's all (for precaution)....stock everything else (I do have sways)....do you know of anyone that has broken an axel with an A6? I don't remember reading about it....M6 cars, plenty, but I can't remember A6 cars....I even think that getting stronger bolts with our current 2 piece drivshaft may still work.....so, why go to the expense? unless you are planning on pushing a lot more....
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:58 AM   #11
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I have over 100 passes and have around same hp levels, I just purchased the 1 piece driveshaft and that's all (for precaution)....stock everything else (I do have sways)....do you know of anyone that has broken an axel with an A6? I don't remember reading about it....M6 cars, plenty, but I can't remember A6 cars....I even think that getting stronger bolts with our current 2 piece drivshaft may still work.....so, why go to the expense? unless you are planning on pushing a lot more....
I have not heard of anyone with an A6 breaking a drive shaft. I do have a friend who did break his tranny.

I sort of feel like the dilema is this: at my current rwhp, everything will probably be fine. However, I say to my builder, what if I want more? He says, well, you'll need to upgrade the rear end, tranny, forge the engine...

So, where to start? If I forge the engine and put an OD cog drive on the maggie and add nitrous, then the stock rear end and tranny probably won't take it.

Right now, I'm just at the research stage of things. I'm not quite ready to commit to adding more rwhp. I just had the cam installed this spring and I haven't quite gotten to the point where my driving skills have exceeded that of my car's power. But, that point will come eventually and I have a feeling I'll want more.
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:07 AM   #12
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What's the car run in the 1/4? What stall are you running?
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:09 AM   #13
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What's the car run in the 1/4? What stall are you running?
I just got my DRs this week. I havent' taken it to the track yet. I expect it to be in the 11s.

I have Precision Industries Vigilante stall.
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:20 AM   #14
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I would do 1 Piece Driveshaft with upgraded half axles.

should be perfect for that power range.
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:30 AM   #15
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I would do 1 Piece Driveshaft with upgraded half axles.

should be perfect for that power range.
Do any of you with a 1 piece drive shaft notice any added vibration in the car? I've heard some folks mention that as a possible risk to using a 1 piece drive shaft.
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:32 AM   #16
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Do any of you with a 1 piece drive shaft notice any added vibration in the car? I've heard some folks mention that as a possible risk to using a 1 piece drive shaft.
I don't have one.

But if it is balanced correctly. It should be fine.

I mean older style cars used them. They did have Live Axle's, but it is the same overall idea.

Through all the mounts, bushings. It should suppress the vibrations sufficiently as long as it is fully balanced.

Someone want to chime in here?
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:40 PM   #17
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WIth an A6 you should be fine with the factory rear and upgraded axles/DS.

The advantage with the 9" for you would be a larger selection of gears and they are alot easier to switch out.

I priced out Axles/Aluminum DS and all of the JRE goodies and a gear vs the Gforce 9" setup. The 9" will be about 1200 to 2000 dollars more depending on what parts you put in the center section.

9" will be a bit heavier and will take a little bit more power to drive it as it is not as efficient.

If you can afford it, go with the 9". You will probably want more power down the road and that setup will definately NOT be the weak link. For your current power level the upgraded OE setup will be good.

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Old 08-04-2011, 08:16 PM   #18
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I am in the same delema. Next for my car is clutch and axles and driveshaft if not 9". Just have yet to decide. Right now my car will be full bolt on, with the exception or Mezler water pump. Should be done on Monday. I am yet to be at your power level, but end goal over the next 2 years is to have fully built 416 with a nice dose of gas. Then set up a procharger and smaller shot of gas. The car won't be tracked all that much, just a couple trips down the 1/4. Car will be a show and go car and play a little here and there with it. The end result will be anywhere from 800-900+ rwhp.
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:22 PM   #19
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I am in the same delema. Next for my car is clutch and axles and driveshaft if not 9". Just have yet to decide. Right now my car will be full bolt on, with the exception or Mezler water pump. Should be done on Monday. I am yet to be at your power level, but end goal over the next 2 years is to have fully built 416 with a nice dose of gas. Then set up a procharger and smaller shot of gas. The car won't be tracked all that much, just a couple trips down the 1/4. Car will be a show and go car and play a little here and there with it. The end result will be anywhere from 800-900+ rwhp.
I don't think I'll ever get to that power level, but 700 rwhp isn't out of the question.
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:29 PM   #20
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I don't have one.

But if it is balanced correctly. It should be fine.

I mean older style cars used them. They did have Live Axle's, but it is the same overall idea.

Through all the mounts, bushings. It should suppress the vibrations sufficiently as long as it is fully balanced.

Someone want to chime in here?
Yes, older cars used them and for me a 1-piece is better; but remember that up til now the longest wheelbase in a Camaro was 108 inches. 5Gs are at 112 which may contribute to utilizing the 2-piece (like long wheelbase trucks). Other muscle cars probably weren't much longer but I don't keep up with their specs.

For what it's worth, if finances are truly an issue, you have an automatic which is a lot easier on the rearend than a stick. Invest the money in the transmission/torque converter, you'll probably need it before the rear gives out. Plus you'll realize better times with the right setup in the transmision.

I would focus on the rearend when it breaks
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:36 PM   #21
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Yes, older cars used them and for me a 1-piece is better; but remember that up til now the longest wheelbase in a Camaro was 108 inches. 5Gs are at 112 which may contribute to utilizing the 2-piece (like long wheelbase trucks). Other muscle cars probably weren't much longer but I don't keep up with their specs.

For what it's worth, if finances are truly an issue, you have an automatic which is a lot easier on the rearend than a stick. Invest the money in the transmission/torque converter, you'll probably need it before the rear gives out. Plus you'll realize better times with the right setup in the transmision.

I would focus on the rearend when it breaks
I have a Precision Industries Vigilante converter in my tranny. I also had a transmission cooler installed for it. Is there something else you would suggest I do as well to the tranny?
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:42 PM   #22
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Half shaft now. Drive shaft if you just want some extra peace of mind. There is no need for a 9" diff.

You don't beat on you car enough to justify the cost. I'd do an LPE swap or a jannetty rebuild. m

Your transmission is the ticking Tim bomb everything else is good. Once you decide to track it every week. Then go spend big buck to make it as bulletproof as possible. But not now.

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Old 08-04-2011, 10:51 PM   #23
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I don't mean to sound snarky, but I find it interesting that people (not just you, GTA) who have never seen me drive my car seem to think I don't beat on it. BWA HA HA!

I appreciate the advice just the same.

Now that I have my DRs, I'm planning to have go to the track - maybe as soon as next week.
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:10 PM   #24
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Darth,
Here's what I have learned traveling a similar path as you. I was at 660 rwhp, 10.19 in the 1/4 with a 100% drivetrain. I did twist up one stock two piece driveshaft. Ted had a spare for me. Then I had a smoking deal come up that had the 1400 hp axles and a Jannetty built rear so I jumped on it. I also added some trailing arms. Well, then the motor popped and thats when we forged it, added some boost and all that crap. 25 passes so far this year at somewhere between 750-800 rwhp just with the axles and Ted's built pumpkin and not one problem to speak of. I even had one day of nothing but wheel hop! I do leave on a slick so that is very friendly to the car but there is no doubt that I will be able to get these parts into the 9's when the weather cools a bit. Maybe a month from now. You can get a deal on some axles and get a built rear and since you're not a track junkie you'll be good to go. The DSS one piece is mint. Zero vibration.
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:13 PM   #25
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Be snarky we like you that way.

But the truth is most of us don't beat on our cars. Driving aggressively on the street doesn't count as beating on your car. Going to the track and sticking 18" stickies on a prepped track every other weekend is beating on your car. And most people take many trips to the strip to actually get god enough to make that kind of launch repeatedly. Again, most of us don't fall into that category.

A tire shredding rev limiter bouncing burnout is impressive to see but produces very little wear and tear on the drive train.

Again you are free to tell me to pack sand. It's your car.

I'm just giving you my thoughts. If I had the money. I'd go all out whether I needed to or not

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