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Old 08-11-2011, 10:00 AM   #1
qtr-camaro ss
 
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Suspension and adjustment coil overs (help)

Hi C5 members,

I would like to ask the experienced people here, if they have some suggestion for my need. My camaro is a DD car, has some upgrades , planing on doing twin turbo on September, thats why i want to upgrade my suspension. I go to the drag race some times, I will go more often ( not sure about that lol ) after getting the twine turbo, street race with my friends sometimes, go from point A to point B, Basically some of everything.

I was looking and the suspension packages at PFDAT, and pedders suspension packages. My builder recommended PFADT drag race suspension package stage1, Also there is pedders which lot of people recommend, which one should I go with.

Now let's see what do you think about coil overs. I was thinking of PFADT adjustable coil overs, PFADT drag race adjustable coil overs and CB adjustable coil overs. I don't know about pedders coil overs. There is one more brand but I forgot the name it's something start with Xa something like that, I read In one of the thread hat it's the same one as CB but they rebrand CB coil over ( that what I read ), And they sell it for much more than CB. Which coil overs should go with, I don't really know if the PFDA drag race Coil overs worth the extra cash ( around $600 more ) from the regular One.

Please I want to hear from you guys, what do think about what I want to do. Do you guys recommend something els, I would love to hear anything will make my suspension upgrade better. ( don't chose the $5000 upgrade) I'm still in he first stage (:

Thank you for taking the time to read my thread
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:13 AM   #2
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Coilovers are a great upgrade but really are only one piece of the puzzle when it comes to quality suspension upgrades. Depending on your budget the first thing I would do is address the weak points in the bushings.

I would suggest getting our super street 1.5 package.


This package addresses the voided cradle bushings and will allow you to plant the power you are planning without the severe cradle movement present in the Camaro cradle.

It comes with Differential bushings which address the diff movement under heavy power.

And finally, full front radius rod bushings. The front radius rod bushings are liquid filled with far too much compliance for NVH purposes. With our bushings you will feel better braking and much more confidence going into heavy turns on the brakes.

Then I would add the coilovers. With those bushings and the coilovers you take the Camaro from an awesome performer to being an AMAZING performance machine!

We just got done putting this exact package on forum member Kbui. I would suggest you PM him to get his honest opinion on the transformation of his vehicle!
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:27 AM   #3
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street racing
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:43 AM   #4
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since your car is a daily driver the pedders pace car package is going to do you wonders. it is comfortable on the street and has great track manners and its also a great place to upgrade from as your power increases
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qtr-camaro ss View Post
Hi C5 members,

I would like to ask the experienced people here, if they have some suggestion for my need. My camaro is a DD car, has some upgrades , planing on doing twin turbo on September, thats why i want to upgrade my suspension. I go to the drag race some times, I will go more often ( not sure about that lol ) after getting the twine turbo, street race with my friends sometimes, go from point A to point B, Basically some of everything.

I was looking and the suspension packages at PFDAT, and pedders suspension packages. My builder recommended PFADT drag race suspension package stage1, Also there is pedders which lot of people recommend, which one should I go with.

Now let's see what do you think about coil overs. I was thinking of PFADT adjustable coil overs, PFADT drag race adjustable coil overs and CB adjustable coil overs. I don't know about pedders coil overs. There is one more brand but I forgot the name it's something start with Xa something like that, I read In one of the thread hat it's the same one as CB but they rebrand CB coil over ( that what I read ), And they sell it for much more than CB. Which coil overs should go with, I don't really know if the PFDA drag race Coil overs worth the extra cash ( around $600 more ) from the regular One.

Please I want to hear from you guys, what do think about what I want to do. Do you guys recommend something els, I would love to hear anything will make my suspension upgrade better. ( don't chose the $5000 upgrade) I'm still in he first stage (:

Thank you for taking the time to read my thread
Both Pfadt And Pedders are gmpp and both of them make very good parts.I have Pedders Xa track 2 kit on my car and am very happy with it.Which ever way you decide to go you will need to rebush the rear diff and the rear sub frame to begin with.Then mod the rest after that since all of the rear suspension parts are mounted to the rear sub frame.
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:54 AM   #6
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street racing
So times we mess around ... Not really street racing, for example we are having chilling together, we go have fun for a bit
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Old 08-11-2011, 12:57 PM   #7
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Well, it sounds like your car is going to put down some pretty serious power in the near future. If you're looking to keep it under control we have some products that will absolutely help you out.

Our Drag race coilovers are fantastic for going in a straight line. They feature custom length front springs, as well as custom damping in the front and rear. Serious drag racing does present some unique suspension requirements, most of which render the car not particularly fun to drive anywhere but a straight line. If you're looking to cut a 1.4x 60" time our Drag Coilovers are fantastic, but if you can be satisfied with slightly higher 60" times, our street coilovers are much more enjoyable to drive.

Personally for a daily driver and occasional drag racer, I would suggest our street coilovers. They can be tuned to give you some of the same advantages that our drag race coilovers do, but can be tuned back to settings that are much more fun to drive on the street. The Street coilovers are extremely flexible and will grow with you no matter what your interests are.

For example, our Camaro coilovers have 20 units of damping adjustment... if you wanted to head to the strip you can set your dampers at click #1 in the front and #4 in the rear, this will promote weight transfer to your rear wheels while keeping the rear end under control while shifting hard. As soon as your finished at the drag strip, take 10 minutes and adjust your coilovers back to click #8 or #9 for a comfortable and sporty street ride. If you decided the next day that you wanted to head to the Autox or Track day, turn them up to 12 or 13 and have a blast with your new extreme handling machine.

With our street coilovers, you will have the ability to quickly tailor your suspension to what ever your needs are. Our coilovers are GMPP certified and can help you with alignment and setup recommendations you might have along the way.



There are some other items that will help you keep the rear suspension under control. Our Solid Subframe Bushings are designed to prevent the entire rear subframe from moving around in relation to the front, while retaining whisper quiet operation. They are extremely useful for putting power effectively down to the ground, while reducing wheel hop. In this video you can see what happens to the rear end of your car during a hard launch, notice how much the subframe is allowed to deflect by the stock bushings.



Our rear Trailing Arms are lighter, and stronger than the stock trailing arms. When you launch the car hard the stock arms deflect at the bushing, and in the arm it's self. Our Trailing Arms prevent this from happening, allowing you to put big power to the ground and reducing wheel hop tremendously. This is another modification, just like the Solid Subframe Bushings, that can be performed without an increase in noise/vibration/harshness, which makes them perfect mods for street cars looking to get the most performance they can.



We are a US based engineering firm specializing in Corvette and Camaro parts who does all design, engineering and testing in the US. If you have any questions about our products and how they can help you reach your goals please don't hesitate to call or email us. We can be reached at info@pfadtracing.com or 1-888-972-2464.
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Old 08-11-2011, 03:22 PM   #8
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Unless your Camaro is going to be a dedicated drag car your best option will be Pedders Supercars. LPE switched from brand-x to Pedders off the shelf Supercars on their monster dedicated drag Camaro and found 2/10ths.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Behan View Post
Thanks Speedster, we switched to Pedders suspension and have been "tweaking" on the car to get the right set up. Plus getting our driver, Jon Ebert, more seat time in the car.

All the best
Graham.
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Originally Posted by Graham Behan View Post
All,
The best mph was the 152.33, the next best was 152.28. The best 60 ft was 1.412 and I would like to thank Justice Pete for our shocks!!
More to come!!

Best Regards

Graham.


For a dual purpose daily driver and strong drag car you will want to have:

Supercar Coilovers
Solution C Sway Bars with High Efficiency OE Quiet Endlinks
Extended Range Alignment Bolt Kit
EP6579 Radius Bush Inserts (we do have to stop your beast)
EP1201HD Sub-frame Bushes
EP1167HD Differential Bushes

Now comes the choice of pure function over the noise of spherical bearings. The toe link and trailing arm bush deflection must be addressed. We can do this by replacing the OE rubber bushes with Pedders urethane or we can use LPE trailing arms and toe links with spherical bearings. On a dedicated track car like the LPE Black Pig the LPE made trailing arms and toe links are right at home. On the street, my personal choice would be Pedders bushes. There is a big difference between the noises a spherical makes and the noise your exhaust makes. One is annoying and the other is music in a daily driver.

Alignment is critical at the drag strip. The less negative camber the better. In fact a bit of positive camber on the Camaro IRS is a really good thing at the strip. 0 camber will deliver great lunches at the strip and more even wear across your rear tire. It is a win win situation.

At the track you will want to disconnect and secure on front endlink. This disables the front bar and improves your launch. Be sure to carefully secure the disconnected front endlink so it does not foul the ABS wire, brake line of any hard parts. Endlink nuts loose quench when screwed on and off. It is a good idea to keep a plastic bag with spares handy so you can replace them at will.

A quality installation and alignment from an expert Like Bruce Raymond from Raymond's Alignment or camaro4mybday is invaluable.

Long story short, Pedders partnered with LPE because of their unmatched expertise at the drag strip. LPE needed to control a ridiculous amount of RWHP and had exhausted the market place. Pedders needed a test mule that would expose any weaknesses in our Supercars. Only with LPE could we push our Supercars to the extreme and beyond. An under 9 second pass in a 4,100 six speed says it all.

LPE + Pedders = Great Products, Even Better Customer Service with Proven Results.
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Last edited by JusticePete; 08-11-2011 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Unless your Camaro is going to be a dedicated drag car your best option will be Pedders Supercars. LPE switched from brand-x to Pedders off the shelf Supercars on their monster dedicated drag Camaro and found 2/10ths.







For a dual purpose daily driver and strong drag car you will want to have:

Supercar Coilovers
Solution C Sway Bars with High Efficiency OE Quiet Endlinks
Extended Range Alignment Bolt Kit
EP6579 Radius Bush Inserts (we do have to stop your beast)
EP1201HD Sub-frame Bushes
EP1167HD Differential Bushes

Now comes the choice of pure function over the noise of spherical bearings. The toe link and trailing arm bush deflection must be addressed. We can do this by replacing the OE rubber bushes with Pedders urethane or we can use LPE trailing arms and toe links with spherical bearings. On a dedicated track car like the LPE Black Pig the LPE made trailing arms and toe links are right at home. On the street, my personal choice would be Pedders bushes. There is a big difference between the noises a spherical makes and the noise your exhaust makes. One is annoying and the other is music in a daily driver.

Alignment is critical at the drag strip. The less negative camber the better. In fact a bit of positive camber on the Camaro IRS is a really good thing at the strip. 0 camber will deliver great lunches at the strip and more even wear across your rear tire. It is a win win situation.

At the track you will want to disconnect and secure on front endlink. This disables the front bar and improves your launch. Be sure to carefully secure the disconnected front endlink so it does not foul the ABS wire, brake line of any hard parts. Endlink nuts loose quench when screwed on and off. It is a good idea to keep a plastic bag with spares handy so you can replace them at will.

A quality installation and alignment from an expert Like Bruce Raymond from Raymond's Alignment or camaro4mybday is invaluable.

Long story short, Pedders partnered with LPE because of their unmatched expertise at the drag strip. LPE needed to control a ridiculous amount of RWHP and had exhausted the market place. Pedders needed a test mule that would expose any weaknesses in our Supercars. Only with LPE could we push our Supercars to the extreme and beyond. An under 9 second pass in a 4,100 six speed says it all.

LPE + Pedders = Great Products, Even Better Customer Service with Proven Results.
pm the price of the parts you listed above please ... and how long its going to take to get to VA 22102
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:18 AM   #10
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I was looking at BC coil overs today, they have the ER serious which it look exactly like pedders supercar coil overs. I'm wondering why they look exactly the same, I want explanation from one of pedders or BC vendors here .

I'm just wondering,
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:43 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by qtr-camaro ss View Post
I was looking at BC coil overs today, they have the ER serious which it look exactly like pedders supercar coil overs. I'm wondering why they look exactly the same, I want explanation from one of pedders or BC vendors here .

I'm just wondering,
I personally did the development for the Pedders Supercars here in the USA. We had them in the market for about 15 months when, to be politically correct, 'similar' products began to appear. The same is true for the Xa range of product. I personally did the the development work starting with the measurements all the way through road testing. Our product was in the market for well over a year when 'similar' product began to appear.

When you lead in markets as Pedders has with late model American Muscle we have to take the position that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. You see it with sub-frame inserts. Pedders brought them to market and now there are other companies selling 'similar' product. You see it in matching sway bar diameters.

Pedders develops complete solutions that integrate into a system that delivers a result greater than the sum of the parts. That has been our hallmark. It is our hallmark. It will always be our hallmark. Combine that with a commitment to excellence in customer support through some of the best dealers in the aftermarket and you have a premium priced product that is a good value. Add in Pedders no hassle warranty and Pedders becomes a best buy. If it isn't bent, if it is on a street registered vehicle, you can call Pedders with your warranty item for two years -- even if you broke it on a race track.

In the end, none of that makes any difference. What does make a difference is proven performance. Pedders has done that on the road course and the drag strip. Pedders has been the partner of choice with GM for the Pace Cars that run on track at INDY and NASCAR. Pedders has literally dozens of products GMPP licensed for the Camaro and other GM products. Pedders is a proud partner of some of the finest names in the business including Richard Petty, Lingenfelter Performance Engineering and Saleen Performance Vehicles.

We do not claim to be as good as some other brand. We strive to be the best in the markets we choose to enter. Looking at our on track performance, our industry partners and our client satisfaction levels we belive we meet and exceed our client's expectations.
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:44 AM   #12
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pm the price of the parts you listed above please ... and how long its going to take to get to VA 22102
Are you active military?
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
I personally did the development for the Pedders Supercars here in the USA. We had them in the market for about 15 months when, to be politically correct, 'similar' products began to appear. The same is true for the Xa range of product. I personally did the the development work starting with the measurements all the way through road testing. Our product was in the market for well over a year when 'similar' product began to appear.

When you lead in markets as Pedders has with late model American Muscle we have to take the position that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. You see it with sub-frame inserts. Pedders brought them to market and now there are other companies selling 'similar' product. You see it in matching sway bar diameters.

Pedders develops complete solutions that integrate into a system that delivers a result greater than the sum of the parts. That has been our hallmark. It is our hallmark. It will always be our hallmark. Combine that with a commitment to excellence in customer support through some of the best dealers in the aftermarket and you have a premium priced product that is a good value. Add in Pedders no hassle warranty and Pedders becomes a best buy. If it isn't bent, if it is on a street registered vehicle, you can call Pedders with your warranty item for two years -- even if you broke it on a race track.

In the end, none of that makes any difference. What does make a difference is proven performance. Pedders has done that on the road course and the drag strip. Pedders has been the partner of choice with GM for the Pace Cars that run on track at INDY and NASCAR. Pedders has literally dozens of products GMPP licensed for the Camaro and other GM products. Pedders is a proud partner of some of the finest names in the business including Richard Petty, Lingenfelter Performance Engineering and Saleen Performance Vehicles.

We do not claim to be as good as some other brand. We strive to be the best in the markets we choose to enter. Looking at our on track performance, our industry partners and our client satisfaction levels we belive we meet and exceed our client's expectations.
your replay made me . thank you for the information, thats what i know about pedders. I just wanted to make sure

Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Are you active military?
no I'm not active military

Last edited by qtr-camaro ss; 08-12-2011 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:59 PM   #14
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I'll have a pm for you this evening.
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
I personally did the development for the Pedders Supercars here in the USA. We had them in the market for about 15 months when, to be politically correct, 'similar' products began to appear. The same is true for the Xa range of product. I personally did the the development work starting with the measurements all the way through road testing. Our product was in the market for well over a year when 'similar' product began to appear.

When you lead in markets as Pedders has with late model American Muscle we have to take the position that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. You see it with sub-frame inserts. Pedders brought them to market and now there are other companies selling 'similar' product. You see it in matching sway bar diameters.

Pedders develops complete solutions that integrate into a system that delivers a result greater than the sum of the parts. That has been our hallmark. It is our hallmark. It will always be our hallmark. Combine that with a commitment to excellence in customer support through some of the best dealers in the aftermarket and you have a premium priced product that is a good value. Add in Pedders no hassle warranty and Pedders becomes a best buy. If it isn't bent, if it is on a street registered vehicle, you can call Pedders with your warranty item for two years -- even if you broke it on a race track.

In the end, none of that makes any difference. What does make a difference is proven performance. Pedders has done that on the road course and the drag strip. Pedders has been the partner of choice with GM for the Pace Cars that run on track at INDY and NASCAR. Pedders has literally dozens of products GMPP licensed for the Camaro and other GM products. Pedders is a proud partner of some of the finest names in the business including Richard Petty, Lingenfelter Performance Engineering and Saleen Performance Vehicles.

We do not claim to be as good as some other brand. We strive to be the best in the markets we choose to enter. Looking at our on track performance, our industry partners and our client satisfaction levels we belive we meet and exceed our client's expectations.
Pete,

You and I have stayed out of each others way now for over two years. While I would generally like to keep it that way there are some things you just aren't being honest about.

Here is a breif history about BC Racing. (http://www.bcec.com.tw/history/history.html)

For those who don't care to read through that, here are the facts. BC racing Introduced their coilovers in 2003. They also introduced the BR series in 2006. Concidently the XA line from Pedders was also released in 2006.

While I respect the work that you have put in on the Camaro we have to be honest here as well. The one and only reason why the R&D was not performed in Australia, like the GTO and G8 platforms, was simply the fact that the Camaro does not exist in AU. As we both know however, much of the R&D came over from the G8 platform.

Now let me be clear, I am not an engineer. Taking measurements and collecting road data, while immensely important, does not equate to parts being made. The guys in AU had to engineer the parts to fit the need as well as the guys at BC Racing.

Here's the facts about BC Racing. I too can have BC Racing private brand coil overs for me. All I have to do is send them the existing struts/shocks/springs of vehicle I would like to market and pay for my name to be placed on the box.

Finally with all do respect you did not answer the OP's question. He asked what the difference between the two coil over brands is.

The BC Racing Coilover has 30 click positive adjustable bound and rebound adjustment.
Both the BR and ER ship with 8kg front springs and 10kg rear springs.
BC Raing features height adjustability by screwing into the clevis thus eliminating spring rate changes during ride height adjustments.

TO ALL CAMARO ENTHUSIASTS:

At the end of the day you guys have to make a decision. I, like you (being an enthusiast first) had to make the same decision. Is the premium price worth it? There are literally hundreds of BC racing coil overs on GTO's/G8's/and Camaro's all over the United States. I ask that you do the research to try and find a dissatisfied GTO/G8/Camaro owner who has personally purchased the BC Brand.

As an enthusiast first, I put my trust in BC on both my twin turbo GTO and my 2ss/rs Camaro.

-Mike White
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:53 PM   #16
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Hello Mike,

I can tell you that Pete did a significant amount of R& D with the Camaro coil overs. I do not remember how many corrections and changes were made. But there were a lot. I can tell you the Pedders stuff works and works really well. Pete has backed up 100% his preformance claims and setups. But as you said, everyone needs to make their decisions



mike
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:07 PM   #17
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Hello Mike,

I can tell you that Pete did a significant amount of R& D with the Camaro coil overs. I do not remember how many corrections and changes were made. But there were a lot. I can tell you the Pedders stuff works and works really well. Pete has backed up 100% his preformance claims and setups. But as you said, everyone needs to make their decisions



mike
dms

Mike,

I am not trying to discount the work both you and Pete put into the brand. As you may or may not know I have the utmost respect for you and all of your technical ability.

The real issue is this. Countless times Pedders has been asked who makes the XA coil over on many different forums. The XA line has been out for nearly 5 years. So to not answer the question means one of two things.

Either you don't know or you don't want your customers to know.

I value honesty above all else when it comes to business. When a customer asks a direct question they deserve a direct answer.
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:46 PM   #18
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While I would generally like to keep it that way there are some things you just aren't being honest about.
I wish you great success in your new venture.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:16 PM   #19
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guys I did not ask this question to start a war between 2 vendors. I just wanted to know, because I was reading a lot about this. some people says this brand is better than the other one, honestly both of them looks the same to me. they look identical, thats why I borough this up.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:21 PM   #20
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You're right to ask questions. You didn't start a war, you're just looking for some info.

Good info in this thread!
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:27 PM   #21
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I'm still like PFDAT ( drag coil overs ) more than pedders or BC. I want to see which one is worth the $ will pay. I want to go with the best ...

ok the ER or the supersport coil overs are harder to adjust than the BR right.
the same question to pete the supersport coil overs are harder to adjust than the Xa, is that right. I mean how long it will take me to adjust them
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:28 PM   #22
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Anyone that would like to to go straight to the source, BC the manufacturer in Asia, to inquire about any relationship they may or may not have with Pedders is welcome to do so.

bc@bcec.com.tw
phone 886-4-2339-9193
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:32 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by qtr-camaro ss View Post
The same question to pete the supersport coil overs are harder to adjust than the Xa, is that right. I mean how long it will take me to adjust them.
You need to have independent bound and rebound adjustment to optimise a 5th Gen at the drag strip. That means Supercars are the solution. Xa coilovers take a couple of minutes to adjust damping. Supercars have four more knobs to turn so that is a couple more minutes. I can do a Supercar damping adjustments in no more than five minutes and so can you.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:45 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Anyone that would like to to go straight to the source, BC the manufacturer in Asia, to inquire about any relationship they may or may not have with Pedders is welcome to do so.

bc@bcec.com.tw
phone 886-4-2339-9193
Simple question. Where are the Pedders super car coil overs made? Where are the Pedders XA's made?

BC coil overs are made in Taiwan. White line bushings are manufactured largely in australia but also some in Korea.

The op wants to know what the best solution would be. In our opinion it is the ER series from BC racing. With separate bound and rebound adjustment they are right at home on the drag strip as well as the road course. Did I also mention with 52mm mono tubes and external reservoir how silky smooth they operate for daily driving?

All at a price that simply cannot be beat. These are the same coil overs we will be running on our project SYN R G.
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Old 08-13-2011, 12:17 AM   #25
qtr-camaro ss
 
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Thanks guys, I will keep thinking about which one I will get, there is something in my mind and i wont even say what I'm going with. until I install it on my car, Its not before one month from now. thank you for all of the information you gave me guys. I think this thread is a good reference to everyone here at C5, there is a lot of good information.
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