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Old 08-19-2011, 12:20 AM   #1
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My L99 needs new AFM lifters

Recently I've been hearing the 5 to 10 second lifter clatter during cold startup more frequently. It's been there all along (at random cold starts), but it was starting to occur a bit more frequently of late.

A new symptom (within the last 500 miles or so) is that starting around the 1 minute mark after coldstart through about 4 minutes, the driver's side lifters were starting to loudly "TAP/TAP/TAP/TAP/TAP/SNAP/TAP/TAP".

The noise is still present after full engine warm up but you had to have at least "normal hearing" to hear it. My hearing has been called "freakishly good" by more than a few people. I could still hear the lifter tapping noises pretty much all of the time.

I took my 2010 Camaro SS L99 into service last week and demonstrated the "warm engine" tapping noise to the service writer. She heard it without a problem. I scheduled an appointment to take it in this past Tuesday when the shop foreman returned to work.

I took it in on Tuesday. The shop foreman took me back to the back parking lot where they parked it and we listened to the engine (warm engine again). The tapping was there but not in its fully glory as a cold start. I purchased a camera the day before that takes videos and I created a video clip of the cold start noise (1 minute to 4 minute range). You could definitely hear the TAP/TAP/TAP/TAP/SNAP/TAP noises in the video. I posted the video online for the service department to listen to. The shop foreman seemed confused why I would post a video of the noise online. I told him I was simply trying to provide as much info as possible to them to help them fix it. The video is not public and only the people I want to see the video will see/hear it.

The shop foreman was already steering the conversation in the direction of "it's normal" or "I really don't hear anything" direction. He at least agreed to listen to the engine after being off for a few hours just like the conditions of the car in the video clip I captured. I tried calling after they performed another test listen in the afternoon and they did not call back.

I called Wednesday morning, and you guessed it, I received "come pick it up because there's nothing wrong". I drove over and returned the rental car and my daughter was nice enough to drive her car too and be there as a witness.

I observed the shop foreman and another tech walking out to my Camaro as I was standing in the service bay driveway. They started the engine and listened for a bit. The shop foreman walks back to me and says "I heard it. I don't know what it is yet, but I heard it". I asked him to explain to me what that means since just one hour ago I was told to come pickup my car because it's running normally. He agreed to start investigating the root cause now that he's heard the noise I reported.

I called them today in the late afternoon and asked what the current status is with the repair (they claimed to be very busy with other major repairs [one other AFM repair as well]). I was informed by the service writer that the shop foreman was able to hear it again at least one more time today and that they have decided to order the AFM replacement lifters.

I'm not excited about the upper portion of the engine being opened up for this, but it's got to be better than listening to the annoying TAP/TAP/TAP/TAP/SNAP/TAP/TAP noises come from my 8500 mile Camaro.

The parts should arrive Monday or Tuesday of next week.

I have been PMing with Jeff (Chevrolet Customer Svc) on this site to help me with this matter since at first it appeared to be going nowhere fast.

Thanks Jeff!

-- Robert
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:29 AM   #2
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I had the same issue with my lifters - took it in 1 time only to me dealer told them the problem they kept it over night heard the noise found the service sheet talking about the issue and no questions asked replaced my lifters and everything has been perfect since. Sorry for your luck, I have a great dealer.
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:49 AM   #3
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This particular service department is the only one in the local area that has not flat out lied to me about repairs.

So many "fun" true horror stories I have about repairs on my Chevy SSRs that I've had over the past several years and one repair attempt on my Camaro at a nearby Chevy service department that resulted in the service manager (with the owner backing him up) telling me to leave because I did not buy the Camaro at that dealership. That dealership is now out of business!!!

The shop foreman at the current service department is a very nice man! I have no problem with him personally or professionally. He's just a bit hard to convince sometimes the issue(s) exist, but once you do convince him, the problem is worked to a good solution.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:35 AM   #4
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Took mine in 3 times and they keep saying it is normal. So might just do the LS3 conversion with Vengenace since GM dealer does not want to fix it. Plus not sure I would trust them opening an engine.
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Old 08-20-2011, 03:11 PM   #5
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Jeff (Chevrolet Customer Svc) opened a case for this issue.

I received a call back from someone else at Chevrolet customer service this morning (left voice mail) stating that GM was sorry for the inconvenience this matter may have caused me. This case is being handled at a higher level via a district specialist and they will make sure that this repair will correct the problem.

I left a voice mail back for the person that called me stating the shop foreman had already selected a repair path for this issue. (AFM lifter replacement via TSB).

It's hard to look in the garage this weekend and not see my Camaro.

I just want it fixed once and correctly so no new issues are created from this repair.
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Old 08-20-2011, 03:43 PM   #6
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Glad to hear it is going to get fixed, the funny thing is that there is a TSB out for it so there should be no problem with just taking it in and telling them to search it up but as with all things in life Dealer Service Departments tend to hire the stupidest of the stupid to work. I remember they tried arguing with me that I had a V6 engine. I had to start it up and rev it for them and they still didn't believe me it took me searching it out myself to get the work done and at the end of it all they broke my friggin air box
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Old 08-20-2011, 05:08 PM   #7
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just got mine done under 8,000 miles on mine and it started ! but took to dealer and told them there was a tsb on it and i didnt have a bit of problems with the issue it got resolved quickly one day as a matter of fact and they did a great job i really like my dealership ! even called the shop forman and gave him and the mechanic great praise and thanks for getting it done so quickly with no fuss ! good luck on getting yours fixed and hope your happy in the end !
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Old 08-20-2011, 06:29 PM   #8
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The shop foreman handed me a copy of the AFM lifter TSB when I first brought my Camaro in for my scheduled service appointment. I also had a copy of the same TSB (via my AllDatadiy.com subscription) attached to the write up of the problem I gave to the service writer/him.

Both I and the shop foreman were well aware of the TSB. His concern is that he had to hear it for himself. Which he did twice in two days of testing the engine. But he only heard it after they told me to come pickup the Camaro because everything was "normal".

My lifter noises seem to have progressed beyond the typical clatter of the lifters at cold startup (which mine will do on random cold startups). The pronounced TAP/TAP/TAP noise is what I'm most concerned with since it was not doing that until the last few hundred miles or so.

If I rev and hold the engine RPM @ 975 (aprox according to the analog IP tach) I can hear what I would call "an old sewing machine" type of noise from the valve train as well (based on my observation point from within the car holding the accelerator pedal for that RPM).

I can hear the TAP/TAP/TAP/SNAP/TAP noises most all of the time, but the noises are there most frequently and with the loudest volume between 1 minute and 5 minutes after cold startup running at idle.

I stopped by a local car rental place in my home town. They have a 2010 Camaro 2SS with an L99 engine. I made the request of simply hearing it from a cold startup and letting it run for up to 5 minutes. The lady behind the desk was more than happy to let me listen to their Camaro's engine. It sounded "normal" with no odd lifter clattering or tapping noises at all. It has 16K miles on it as well (nearly double my Camaro).

Everything (at the moment) is moving in the right direction and hopefully I get my Camaro back this coming week with this issue fully resolved.
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:11 AM   #9
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Got the same issue here... And i already had my first SS replaced for a new one due to major electrical malfuncion.

Found the TSB here:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...m-engines.html
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:58 AM   #10
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Here is another (more recent) TSB from GM:

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/Bl...afm_lifter.pdf

One thing I didnīt understand is why there are so many complaints about the AFM? I have my camaro for about two months now, and I canīt even notice when it kicks in (I really canīt tell when itīs engaged, even at cruise speed).

Whatīs the big deal about it (besides the AFM lifters issue)?
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott@Bjorn3D View Post
Took mine in 3 times and they keep saying it is normal. So might just do the LS3 conversion with Vengenace since GM dealer does not want to fix it. Plus not sure I would trust them opening an engine.
I'm sure you are aware but just so it is said. You will void your powertrain warranty if you decide to open it up on your own. If your warranty is a concern, you need to find a competent dealer and get them to do it.
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:20 PM   #12
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There's a later revision to that same bulletin: 10-06-01-007C dated February 9, 2011. The "C" revision states that it was updated to "add models" to the list.

I was contacted this morning by GM customer service and I updated the GM rep on the current status of the repair.

I was then contacted by the service writer and she stated the parts are in and they'll begin the repair this afternoon. I "might" have it back tomorrow afternoon.
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:37 PM   #13
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At least they're acknowledging that it's a problem. My dealer called it normal. OVER and OVER and OVER again. Even after hearing it sound off nice and loud, they told me that it "didn't last long enough to be considered a problem..."

Still PISSES ME OFF thinkin about it.
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:35 PM   #14
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I picked up my Camaro today. So far, so good! I drove it home and let it sit for about four hours and did another startup and all I heard was "normal" valve train noises. No TAP/TAP/TAP noises. If I can say that in a couple of weeks then I will declare total success with this repair.

My engine idle seems just a bit smoother as well.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernardinetti View Post
Here is another (more recent) TSB from GM:

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/Bl...afm_lifter.pdf

One thing I didnīt understand is why there are so many complaints about the AFM? I have my camaro for about two months now, and I canīt even notice when it kicks in (I really canīt tell when itīs engaged, even at cruise speed).

Whatīs the big deal about it (besides the AFM lifters issue)?
It's not a big deal imo. People like to complain. I've never heard my AFM either.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:50 AM   #16
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It's not a big deal imo. People like to complain. I've never heard my AFM either.
You can never satisfy everybody with a feature and how it behaves.

I happen to be one of those "complainers" since 4 cyl mode will kick in far too aggressively (speeds down to 20 MPH) and I can hear it via the exhaust sound (with stock exhaust or Borla Touring axle back). I have to drive up some steep hills to drive towards my home. Once I get up to about 20 MPH going up the steep incline of the hills around my home, I can feel the car go into 4 cyl mode and hear it. While in 4 cyl mode the car begins to struggle a bit because it's going up hill so I have to push the accelerator pedal a bit more to compensate for the 4 cyl mode and then it goes back to 8 cyl mode and then it's starting to move too fast for the residential area that I'm driving in. I then have to let off of the accelerator pedal a bit and then it jumps back into 4 cyl mode and the cycle repeats until I get to my house.

If AFM is not a bother to you, then great, but don't simply dismiss those of us that have driving patterns/requirements that bring out the nastiness of AFM and cause it to be annoyance to the driver.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:15 PM   #17
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i too have had this same problem and 3 different dealers said it was "normal" now that i have a tsb printout to back me, i hope they re consider. ill give them a call tomorrow n see what they say. thanks for all the help fellas
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:56 PM   #18
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Does that sound even semi "normal" to anyone? NO.

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Old 09-01-2011, 05:59 AM   #19
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Hearing the lifters that loud in a video does not sound good.
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Old 09-01-2011, 06:44 AM   #20
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I heard the lifters as well on my car. I hated hearing a new car tap so I thought about it and came to conclusion even with a warranty service techs don't want to fix your car. Then I asked myself do I really want them to touch my car? Go in for one thing another problem returned to me possibly.
I had a ls3 conversion with compression bump and a cam added
Best decision I ever made.

Afm is bs
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:01 AM   #21
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Can anyone tell me how to get in touch with GM. I have a issue with my 6.0 2500 HD GMC truck. They replaced cam and lifters last week due to not enough oil. Got it back and oil prssure had been running 10 psig at idle. Called service department & they gave me a bullitin saying that it was normal. Ok fine. Well yesterday i am going home and beep beep beep beep. I WAS LIKE WHAT THE HELL. Oil light comes on so i shut it down. Now i am not a dummy here but i think i would like a new engine. There has got to be damage after all this. Can anyone help in this matter to get in touch with GM.
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:35 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibznu2010 View Post
Can anyone tell me how to get in touch with GM. I have a issue with my 6.0 2500 HD GMC truck. They replaced cam and lifters last week due to not enough oil. Got it back and oil prssure had been running 10 psig at idle. Called service department & they gave me a bullitin saying that it was normal. Ok fine. Well yesterday i am going home and beep beep beep beep. I WAS LIKE WHAT THE HELL. Oil light comes on so i shut it down. Now i am not a dummy here but i think i would like a new engine. There has got to be damage after all this. Can anyone help in this matter to get in touch with GM.
Search the member list for Jeff Morris here and he should be able to help you...
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Old 09-01-2011, 02:39 PM   #23
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ibznu2010, could you send me a description of what is going on with your truck? I'd like to see what I can do to assist you.

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Old 09-08-2011, 03:50 PM   #24
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Hmmm....maybe I need to take my A6 in for this TSB. I was hearing ticking sounds when I would turn my car on, but then it went away. A very new symptom is that I hear the same exact ticking sound when I accelerate.
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:08 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jekyll-N-Hyde View Post
I heard the lifters as well on my car. I hated hearing a new car tap so I thought about it and came to conclusion even with a warranty service techs don't want to fix your car. Then I asked myself do I really want them to touch my car? Go in for one thing another problem returned to me possibly.
I had a ls3 conversion with compression bump and a cam added
Best decision I ever made.

Afm is bs
Same here, best thing I ever did to my car.
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