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Old 10-08-2012, 02:12 PM   #1
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Should I uprgade to FE4 suspension?

Currently I have a set of coilovers and have upgraded to a pair of LSR swaybars (got a good deal on them) set to the middle setting. I still have the stock Front/Rear endlinks.

I only do a couple Auto-X events a year and actually this year I didn't even get a chance to make it to one. I haven't done any road racing but hope to do it at least one time just to try it out. My wallet probably won't let me do those too often since I've heard that it will eat brakes and tires.

I do however go to the drag strip probaby 4 or 5 times a year just for fun. Nothing competitive and I'm still using the OEM wheels and street tires (altough I do have 20x9 all around).

With that being said, do you think it's worth upgrading to the FE4 suspension? I'm thinking of going with the newer style Lower Control Arms, OEM end links, and 1LE sway bars.

Do you see any advantage to that as apposed to just buying some Pedders or Pfadt end links for the LSR swaybars I already have?

Right now I considering the upgrade mostly because I like the idea of where the end links connect to the LCA with the FE4 suspension. I also don't care for the stock end links on the FE3 suspension.

Opinions???
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:33 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caverman View Post
Currently I have a set of coilovers and have upgraded to a pair of LSR swaybars (got a good deal on them) set to the middle setting. I still have the stock Front/Rear endlinks.

I only do a couple Auto-X events a year and actually this year I didn't even get a chance to make it to one. I haven't done any road racing but hope to do it at least one time just to try it out. My wallet probably won't let me do those too often since I've heard that it will eat brakes and tires.

I do however go to the drag strip probaby 4 or 5 times a year just for fun. Nothing competitive and I'm still using the OEM wheels and street tires (altough I do have 20x9 all around).

With that being said, do you think it's worth upgrading to the FE4 suspension? I'm thinking of going with the newer style Lower Control Arms, OEM end links, and 1LE sway bars.

Do you see any advantage to that as apposed to just buying some Pedders or Pfadt end links for the LSR swaybars I already have?

Right now I considering the upgrade mostly because I like the idea of where the end links connect to the LCA with the FE4 suspension. I also don't care for the stock end links on the FE3 suspension.

Opinions???
In our experience the FE4 suspension really is better. Our ZLSpec sway bar package really will make a big difference over an FE3 equipped car. We simply could never get enough rear roll stiffness dialed into the FE2/FE3 Camaro's like we can with the FE4 cars. This should give you a good idea of the change in performance you would see with our bars vs. an FE3 style package:

CAMARO FRONT ROLL STIFFNESS. FE2/3/4/5 PACKAGES INCLUDING ALL PFADT BARS

CAMARO REAR ROLL STIFFNESS. FE2/3/4/5, INCLUDING ALL PFADT BARS

You can see how the new parts really give us an opportunity to significantly increase the roll resistance versus the previous bars. We have upgrade packages that include the OEM rear arms, rear endlinks, Pfadt front endlinks as well as the sway bars... everything you would need in one convenient package.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:16 PM   #3
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I've been looking at your package. Definatley like it.....I just don't know if it's overkill for me or not.

I've also been looking at Pedders package as well as just upgrading to the 1LE parts. The OEM 1LE parts are the most cost effective way but may not be the best performance wise.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:11 PM   #4
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If interested, I will have some FE4 parts coming off of my car, let me know if there is something you want.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:16 PM   #5
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Caverman, what diameter is your front bar?
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:37 PM   #6
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If interested, I will have some FE4 parts coming off of my car, let me know if there is something you want.
PM me with what you have. I'm going to need Lower Control Arms for sure and Front/Rear end links (if I don't go aftermarket). Sway bars will either be 1LE or aftermarket.

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Caverman, what diameter is your front bar?
I don't know and LSR wouldn't give out specs. They are big though. I think I remember measuring them to be about 30mm. They are hallow which probably makes a difference.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:48 PM   #7
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30mm hollow is close to a 27mm solid. Moving to a Z style 32mm solid will work great for you.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:32 PM   #8
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Agreed, i was loking at FE4 stuff before i decided to go with the 1LE.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:40 PM   #9
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30mm hollow is close to a 27mm solid. Moving to a Z style 32mm solid will work great for you.
What kind of an advantage would I get with the 32mm over the 28mm 1LE bar? I'm assuming that's for the rear.

Also, doesn't Pedders have some upgraded end links for the FE4 suspension? I'm tossing all sorts of ideas around because I'm trying to get something good without breaking the bank or going overkill for my needs. One idea was going with FE4 GM LCA, 1LE swaybars, and Pedders end links.

Isn't there a Pedders bushing for the LCA as well? If so, how much is that going to help me or hurt me if I don't use them?
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:43 PM   #10
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Agreed, i was loking at FE4 stuff before i decided to go with the 1LE.



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Old 10-09-2012, 08:55 PM   #11
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What kind of an advantage would I get with the 32mm over the 28mm 1LE bar? I'm assuming that's for the rear.

Also, doesn't Pedders have some upgraded end links for the FE4 suspension? I'm tossing all sorts of ideas around because I'm trying to get something good without breaking the bank or going overkill for my needs. One idea was going with FE4 GM LCA, 1LE swaybars, and Pedders end links.

Isn't there a Pedders bushing for the LCA as well? If so, how much is that going to help me or hurt me if I don't use them?
Keep your front bar and add the 32mm rear bar, LCAs and drop links. The 1LE or ZL1 28mm rear bar is going to be just a bit stronger than your 30mm hollow bar front and rear bar. Mounting it outboard makes it far more effective, but to bring better balance to the car you need a bigger rear bar. The only reason GM isn't running a bigger rear bar on the ZL1 or 1LE is they want the car to understeer for liability reasons.

Way back when we ran our PUSA Camaro with a square wheel and tire setup, 27mm adjustable front bar and a 32mm inboard mount adjustable rear bar. The 1LE comes out with a 27mm front bar, the same size front and rear tires on 10 wide up front and 11 wide in the rear... GM is getting so close to building a Pedders Camaro, but I digress We are limited to a 32mm rear bar because area the sway bar mounts to the sub-frame, in our opinion, won't take a much much stronger bar.

Your current front endlinks have worked well for the LSR front bar so leave them in place. Big Axx Pedders rear bar, Pedders droplinks and OE RLCAs will have you dialed in on a budget.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:17 PM   #12
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Your current front endlinks have worked well for the LSR front bar so leave them in place. Big Axx Pedders rear bar, Pedders droplinks and OE RLCAs will have you dialed in on a budget.
Ok....sounds like a plan. PM me the cost of that when you get a chance.

Also, if you know of a place to get a good alignment in the DFW area that would help alot as well.

Saving my mod money.....and Christmas is right around the corner.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:55 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by caverman View Post
I've been looking at your package.
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Caverman, what diameter is your front bar?
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PM me with what you have.

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27mm solid.

Am I in the wrong section???
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:57 PM   #14
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Am I in the wrong section???















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Old 10-09-2012, 11:02 PM   #15
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LMFAO

FYI Pete, your GMPP link in your sig is broken.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:13 PM   #16
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LMFAO

FYI Pete, your GMPP link in your sig is broken.
New website Another page needs a re-direct Fixed Thanks
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:00 AM   #17
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I think im going to pull and sell all of my aftermarket suspension and do all upgrades to make it a stock 2013 suspension. My 13 is so much nicer than my 10 its not even funny
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:57 AM   #18
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I think im going to pull and sell all of my aftermarket suspension and do all upgrades to make it a stock 2013 suspension. My 13 is so much nicer than my 10 its not even funny
Before you do all that, please post a list of what suspension, wheel and tire aftermarket parts you have on your 10.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:35 PM   #19
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OK....Pete talked me into it.

On order:
FE4 GM LCA
Pedders FE4 End Links
32mm rear bar
Steering column bush (might as well since I'm already getting a shipment)

Hey Pete,
Should I be upgrading the LCA bushings? They may not make enough of a difference to worry about right now.

Also, PM me any good alignment shop in the DFW area that you might know of. I'm guessing I'm going to be doing a FE4 alignment this time.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:24 PM   #20
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OK....Pete talked me into it.

On order:
FE4 GM LCA
Pedders FE4 End Links
32mm rear bar
Steering column bush (might as well since I'm already getting a shipment)

Hey Pete,
Should I be upgrading the LCA bushings? They may not make enough of a difference to worry about right now.

Also, PM me any good alignment shop in the DFW area that you might know of. I'm guessing I'm going to be doing a FE4 alignment this time.
The main reason to replace the rear lower inner bush is to remove rate. The OE steel jacketed bush is very tight with little rubber between the jacket and ferule. A steel jacketed urethane bush has a free ferule. This allows the springs and dampers to control motion.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:35 PM   #21
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Full hotchkis suspension and endlinks (Springs, Sways, Subframe Connector, Brace)the 2013 is so smooth and feels like it glides through corners more like a vette and mine carves through corners like a rough a** truck that can handle a lil better.

I have the same wheels and tires on both. (22" huntington bolsa's and Nitto's 265&305)

The Hotchkis is a sponsored suspension so I would have to send it back to them. They sent it to me for my audio tours coming up this last fall through this next Dec 2013.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:07 PM   #22
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Full hotchkis suspension and endlinks (Springs, Sways, Subframe Connector, Brace)the 2013 is so smooth and feels like it glides through corners more like a vette and mine carves through corners like a rough a** truck that can handle a lil better.

I have the same wheels and tires on both. (22" huntington bolsa's and Nitto's 265&305)

The Hotchkis is a sponsored suspension so I would have to send it back to them. They sent it to me for my audio tours coming up this last fall through this next Dec 2013.
How much does all the audio gear weigh?
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The 2010 Sin View Post
I think im going to pull and sell all of my aftermarket suspension and do all upgrades to make it a stock 2013 suspension. My 13 is so much nicer than my 10 its not even funny

Quote:
Originally Posted by The 2010 Sin View Post
Full hotchkis suspension and endlinks (Springs, Sways, Subframe Connector, Brace)the 2013 is so smooth and feels like it glides through corners more like a vette and mine carves through corners like a rough a** truck that can handle a lil better.

I have the same wheels and tires on both. (22" huntington bolsa's and Nitto's 265&305)

The Hotchkis is a sponsored suspension so I would have to send it back to them. They sent it to me for my audio tours coming up this last fall through this next Dec 2013.
Did you change shocks on the '10 as well?

The springs are most likely causing the rough ride on the '10. I can't for a minute imagine any of the other mods causing your rough ride (though I haven't driven a car with subframe connecters so I don't know how much of a difference they make, but I guess it is possible they could remove some compliance that would make the car feel rougher).

Everyone should know going in that changing to a performance spring, or suspension, is going to make the ride rougher; it's a compromise.

I'd hate to see you waste your money on new suspension components that aren't needed. If you don't like the ride, try removing the subframe connecters and go back to the stock coils/shocks. You'll likely find the ride is much better without needing the '13 bits...

As for the FE4, it might be better, but you need to define better. In other-words, if you tried everything (full rear bar & minimum front bar, more front compression damping and/or less rear compression damping, toe settings and tire pressures: more front or less rear or both) and still have too much understeer, then yeah, the FE4 components would be worth a try. I can't imagine GM designed so much understeer it couldn't be dialed out with any combination of the above.

Personally, I can get my car to oversteer with the components I have, I have no need to go to the FE4 or FE5 bits...
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:33 PM   #24
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Personally, looking at the difference of how the FE3 end links are flembsie looking and the way they connect compared to the FE4 drop links and the way they connect to the control arm....that's one of the biggest reasons I'm changing.

It reminds me of the '67 with a mono-leaf spring compared to the multi-leaf spring that came on the '69. Improved suspension....
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:22 PM   #25
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I guess, but let's look at this logically...

The stock Camaro suffers from understeer. If you push the car hard enough to get it to understeer, you need to make some changes, sway bars being one of those changes. The stock end links are flimsy and are generally replaced with a performance bar.

If designed correctly, the aftermarket performance sway bars will get rid of the majority, if not all of the understeer.

The rear FE4 attaches further out on the control arm giving more leverage, or a greater mechanical advantage. I'm not an expert, but because of this design, it would seem logical that one would be able to achieve the same roll resistance of the FE3 setup with a smaller FE4 bar.

At the end of the day, the bars need to work together to achieve the end result. If your car is neutral now, and you stick an FE4 bar on, you'll likely have to run less rear bar then you did with the FE3.

If my car is neutral with an FE3 setup, and your car is neutral with an FE4 setup, how is one better than the other?

Keep in mind, the FE4 was designed to work on a stock car and addresses deficiencies in the stock FE3 design to make the car more neutral, deficiencies the FE3 aftermarket addressed...
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