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Old 08-23-2011, 01:25 PM   #1
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The Volt out of juice...?

From MSNBC....?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44178222...ning-out-juice

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is the Chevrolet Volt running out of juice?
Even as the maker begins its long-promised production ramp-up, a new study suggests that potential buyers are rapidly losing interest in the plug-in hybrid vehicle.
Introduced last December, Volt is one of the first new vehicles to test the potential market for electric propulsion. It has been going head-to-head with Nissan’s pure battery-electric Leaf. Sales of the two vehicles have been marginal, at best, though the makers insist that has more to do with limited supply than buyer demand.
Through the end of July, Chevy has sold about 3,200 of the plug-in hybrids compared to 4,500 Nissan Leafs. But both carmakers have begun ramping up production, General Motors forecasting sales of around 16,000 for the year as a whole — including a small number of Volt clone Opel Amperas targeted at markets abroad.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It was the Motor Tread car of the year! The Pres even test drove one and said it was a "...nice car......"

Geez....say it ain't so!

wait .....what that's..."....has more to due with limited supply...."

AH! Maybe it's a Tea Party conspiracy!
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:33 PM   #2
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D-Ham was shut down for a few months for retooling. AKA no Volt production for a few months.

Volt inventory was almost completely depleted.
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Old 08-23-2011, 04:44 PM   #3
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You mean the car BHO wants us all to drive is in short supply?
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Old 08-23-2011, 04:45 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
D-Ham was shut down for a few months for retooling. AKA no Volt production for a few months.

Volt inventory was almost completely depleted.
Damn, where do you get your info from? You are always there with the answers.
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Old 08-23-2011, 04:54 PM   #5
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Damn, where do you get your info from? You are always there with the answers.
I'm a staff member at GMInsideNews.
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:00 PM   #6
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D-Ham was shut down for a few months for retooling. AKA no Volt production for a few months.

Volt inventory was almost completely depleted.
I don't wanna dig up the article, but I read that Hertz was renting out Volts / Leafs / (other EVs).

I was just a bit supprised since these are, so far, limited productions... that a rental company would already have them in their inventory.

And with all the hype... you would have thought that there was such a demand, that every last one would have been sucked up in pre-orders!

I suppose it is more a marketing gimmick... for both GM and Hertz. (But I certainly ain't never renting a car that runs on a battery, ok... maybe a Tesla, maybe)
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:52 AM   #7
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I don't wanna dig up the article, but I read that Hertz was renting out Volts / Leafs / (other EVs).

I was just a bit supprised since these are, so far, limited productions... that a rental company would already have them in their inventory.

And with all the hype... you would have thought that there was such a demand, that every last one would have been sucked up in pre-orders!

I suppose it is more a marketing gimmick... for both GM and Hertz. (But I certainly ain't never renting a car that runs on a battery, ok... maybe a Tesla, maybe)
One of the first high-volume Camaro orders was from a rental company as well.

Volt actually has quite a few high-volume fleet orders. The government has one in, GE has one...
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:15 AM   #8
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Why is MSNBC always so quick to dismiss or signal the death bell on anything to do with GM. A little information, like the info given by fenwick above, makes the article completely moot and a waste of biodegradable ink.
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:05 AM   #9
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There was an article on Yahoo about this last week. Every comment was "why don't they sell it for 20K?" "too expensive" "i'll never buy GM or Chrysler again"
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:21 AM   #10
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There was an article on Yahoo about this last week. Every comment was "why don't they sell it for 20K?" "too expensive" "i'll never buy GM or Chrysler again"
These are the same people that go to a used lot saying, "I've got $4,000 cash and I ain't goin' a dime higher!" The salesman proceeds to show a $4k car, usually some compact from the late '90s with over 100k miles. These buyers will never understand business. Business is making money so that businesses can reinvest in new stuff, including technology. What GM has done with the Volt is make impossibly expensive engineering available for the masses.

For the sake of simplicity, the Volt is a car with two engines. Let's say you put two engines in your Camaro. How much would it cost? Let's make it more affordable. Let's put two engines in a Cobalt SS. This LNF is going for over $3k on a car that retailed in the low-mid $20,000s. Now, installing another engine isn't going to just cost the price of a new engine. You've got to fabricate room for it on the existing platform, so that might require some work. You've got to redo the interior because it is now a 4-seater instead of a 5-seater. You've got a lot of work ahead of you, and that costs labor dollars. I think it would be safe to say that adding a new engine would cost as much as $15,000 on our new Cobalt SS. Suddenly, we're right around the price of a Volt.

And let's not forget that profit is a matter of business. If a business is not running a profit, it cannot produce new, innovative products. All it can do is produce what it already has and hope it sells better tomorrow. Profit is necessary for us to have Camaros, Corvettes, ground effects kits, special edition models, advertising, sponsorships, contests, apparel, and all the other good things Chevrolet does.

What's remarkable about the Volt is that the additional powerplant is not typical. It saves money on gas, albeit you have to drive it for a while to break even. The Volt is worth every penny of that pricetag, and if you aren't willing to pay it, go buy yourself a Malibu. It's nice and less expensive.
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:44 AM   #11
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There was an article on Yahoo about this last week. Every comment was "why don't they sell it for 20K?" "too expensive" "i'll never buy GM or Chrysler again"
I quit reading comment sections on Yahoo articles. Just a bunch of morons who know little to nothing about the automotive industry and yet want to play armchair CEO.

You get what you pay for. There's really only five reasonable choices in the alternative fuel segment excluding hybrids based off existing cars. You can have outdated, inferior tech in the Prius and HS250h, pathetic performance from the Insight, or impracticality from the Leaf. You pay less, but you're making compromises left and right.

You may pay more for Volt but you get a vastly better product. Americans need to wake up and realize that's the direction the industry is heading. Look at the Cruze and Focus. Both fairly expensive for their segments, but both class-leading vehicles that destroy the import competition in terms of features and technology. I mean, the new Civic doesn't even come with a radio in its bargain-priced base model.
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:45 AM   #12
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I quit reading comment sections on Yahoo articles. Just a bunch of morons who know little to nothing about the automotive industry and yet want to play armchair CEO.

You get what you pay for. There's really only five reasonable choices in the alternative fuel segment excluding hybrids based off existing cars. You can have outdated, inferior tech in the Prius and HS250h, pathetic performance from the Insight, or impracticality from the Leaf. You pay less, but you're making compromises left and right.

You may pay more for Volt but you get a vastly better product. Americans need to wake up and realize that's the direction the industry is heading. Look at the Cruze and Focus. Both fairly expensive for their segments, but both class-leading vehicles that destroy the import competition in terms of features and technology. I mean, the new Civic doesn't even come with a radio in its bargain-priced base model.
The new Civic doesn't even get recommended by Consumer Reports, possibly the most biased automotive news source out there. That says something.
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:48 AM   #13
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The new Civic doesn't even get recommended by Consumer Reports, possibly the most biased automotive news source out there. That says something.
Agreed. If the import lovefest that is CR doesn't even recommend an import, you know it has to be bad.

Honda and Toyota are losing it. Honda's newest launch products have all had fairly disappointing sales figures, and Toyota's been on a downward spiral to oblivion for a while now.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:03 PM   #14
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I think the fact that with so many cars that are in the 20-30k price range that are now getting 40ish MPG its tough to justify the extra expense. I think if GM had brought it to market faster it might have enjoyed more success due to less competition from conventional powertrains that are more efficient. Although I do agree that production numbers are the biggest limiting factor right now. Buty I think it will max out the early adopters and then the price will need to come down before it has greater mass market appeal.
I wouldn't mind a Volt but when I can get a well equipped focus or cruze or fit or civic or corolla for around 20k and get roughly 40mpg I can't justify the nearly doubled expense of the volt.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:19 PM   #15
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sounds like oil supporters are throwing out more propaganda....0o0o0o0o no one wants to buy the volt! yet gm has enough demand to make a luxury model.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:26 PM   #16
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I think the fact that with so many cars that are in the 20-30k price range that are now getting 40ish MPG its tough to justify the extra expense. I think if GM had brought it to market faster it might have enjoyed more success due to less competition from conventional powertrains that are more efficient. Although I do agree that production numbers are the biggest limiting factor right now. Buty I think it will max out the early adopters and then the price will need to come down before it has greater mass market appeal.
I wouldn't mind a Volt but when I can get a well equipped focus or cruze or fit or civic or corolla for around 20k and get roughly 40mpg I can't justify the nearly doubled expense of the volt.

A few months ago, I went to my local Chevy dealer to look at a Volt. Since most commutes around Austin is less than 40 miles round trip and I have 2 kids commuting to universities near by, I was seriously looking at a Volt for them. I was thinking with a Volt for these short commutes, I will never have to pay for gas, but the local dealers didn't even have one to sell. Ends up with a Cruze for the kids, but would have bought a Volt.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:26 PM   #17
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I think the fact that with so many cars that are in the 20-30k price range that are now getting 40ish MPG its tough to justify the extra expense. I think if GM had brought it to market faster it might have enjoyed more success due to less competition from conventional powertrains that are more efficient. Although I do agree that production numbers are the biggest limiting factor right now. Buty I think it will max out the early adopters and then the price will need to come down before it has greater mass market appeal.
I wouldn't mind a Volt but when I can get a well equipped focus or cruze or fit or civic or corolla for around 20k and get roughly 40mpg I can't justify the nearly doubled expense of the volt.
This.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:28 PM   #18
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These are the same people that go to a used lot saying, "I've got $4,000 cash and I ain't goin' a dime higher!" The salesman proceeds to show a $4k car, usually some compact from the late '90s with over 100k miles. These buyers will never understand business. Business is making money so that businesses can reinvest in new stuff, including technology. What GM has done with the Volt is make impossibly expensive engineering available for the masses.

For the sake of simplicity, the Volt is a car with two engines. Let's say you put two engines in your Camaro. How much would it cost? Let's make it more affordable. Let's put two engines in a Cobalt SS. This LNF is going for over $3k on a car that retailed in the low-mid $20,000s. Now, installing another engine isn't going to just cost the price of a new engine. You've got to fabricate room for it on the existing platform, so that might require some work. You've got to redo the interior because it is now a 4-seater instead of a 5-seater. You've got a lot of work ahead of you, and that costs labor dollars. I think it would be safe to say that adding a new engine would cost as much as $15,000 on our new Cobalt SS. Suddenly, we're right around the price of a Volt.

And let's not forget that profit is a matter of business. If a business is not running a profit, it cannot produce new, innovative products. All it can do is produce what it already has and hope it sells better tomorrow. Profit is necessary for us to have Camaros, Corvettes, ground effects kits, special edition models, advertising, sponsorships, contests, apparel, and all the other good things Chevrolet does.

What's remarkable about the Volt is that the additional powerplant is not typical. It saves money on gas, albeit you have to drive it for a while to break even. The Volt is worth every penny of that pricetag, and if you aren't willing to pay it, go buy yourself a Malibu. It's nice and less expensive.
Look at how much more it is than the Prius and by your rational the Prius has 2 engines too. You have to look at the competition. I think it is too technologically advanced and thus is priced out of the market. They should have just reverse engineered synergy drive from a Prius, used the current Volt design, priced it in the 20's and called it a day. Don't fix a formula that works. It seems like GM is trying to reinvent the wheel. If they came up with voltec 5 or 10 years ago it might have been a hit.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:28 PM   #19
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Its still to damn much money for the avg person...
Drop the price to a reasonable cost and it will sell... I'd buy one for my wife and then figure how to mod it a bit to extend the range.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:33 PM   #20
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Look at how much more it is than the Prius and by your rational the Prius has 2 engines too. You have to look at the competition. I think it is too technologically advanced and thus is priced out of the market. They should have just reverse engineered synergy drive from a Prius, used the current Volt design, priced it in the 20's and called it a day. Don't fix a formula that works. It seems like GM is trying to reinvent the wheel. If they came up with voltec 5 or 10 years ago it might have been a hit.
A Prius can't go up to 40 miles without gas. A Prius is still completely dependent on its gasoline engine. A Prius uses outdated and inferior technology.

If every automaker followed your way of thinking, we'd still be driving cars that looked more or less like the original Model T.

At this point, it's an economies of scale issue. The more vehicles GM builds using Voltec, the lower the price will get. That's why the ELR is so crucial (and should have been in development a while ago).
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:39 PM   #21
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A Prius can't go up to 40 miles without gas. A Prius is still completely dependent on its gasoline engine. A Prius uses outdated and inferior technology.

If every automaker followed your way of thinking, we'd still be driving cars that looked more or less like the original Model T.
From the toyota website:
Quote:
With the Plug-in's extended EV mode, [1][2] you'll be able to make many of your daily local trips without using a single drop of gas.[3] And because it's backed by Hybrid Synergy Drive®, you could get up to 475 miles on a single tank, depending on driving conditions. [3] You also get the convenience of Plug-in charging and rapid recharge times: 3 hours with a standard 120V household outlet or 1.5 hours with a 240V outlet.
I don't understand how 50+ mpg's for 25K is outdated technology when none of the American companies have released a hybrid any where close to those numbers.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:47 PM   #22
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From the toyota website:

I don't understand how 50+ mpg's for 25K is outdated technology when none of the American companies have released a hybrid any where close to those numbers.
I believe you're quoting the yet-to-be-released PHEV Prius. Which lacks the Volt's 40 mile electric-only range, and will most likely be priced substantially higher than the standard Prius.

And if you want to talk about MPGs, Volt is EPA rated at 94 MPG.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:51 PM   #23
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That's great but I'm talking real world mpg's VS. MSRP. My parents have a 2010 Prius and as much as I hate toyota I have to admit they never get less than 50mpg's city or highway and they paid under 25K. It just blows my mind that GM or Ford haven't had a competitor and still don't for a car that has been around since 2001. Voltec is impressive technology but they could have reduced cost by simplifying the drive system and sold a lot more.
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:02 PM   #24
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That's great but I'm talking real world mpg's VS. MSRP. My parents have a 2010 Prius and as much as I hate toyota I have to admit they never get less than 50mpg's city or highway and they paid under 25K. It just blows my mind that GM or Ford haven't had a competitor and still don't for a car that has been around since 2001. Voltec is impressive technology but they could have reduced cost by simplifying the drive system and sold a lot more.
If you want to talk real world MPGs, then I probably shouldn't tell you about the engineer who managed 3,108 MPG with his Volt.

In a more realistic situation, the Volt, running on electricity and gasoline (aka expending the EV range and switching to gasoline afterwards), will do 60 MPG. Still more than the Prius.

Technically if you never exceed 40 miles, as the majority of drivers typically drive less than 40 miles every day, you're doing infinity miles per gallon until the Volt burns the gasoline in the tank to prevent it from going stale.

Again, you get what you pay for.
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:09 PM   #25
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Its still to damn much money for the avg person...
Drop the price to a reasonable cost and it will sell... I'd buy one for my wife and then figure how to mod it a bit to extend the range.
Oh, and it actually is possible to do so. The Volt automatically cuts off battery depletion before the battery is actually completely depleted to maintain battery life. If you could hack the computer (and void your warranty) to allow the battery to completely drain, you would be able to extend the EV range substantially. Your battery would just lose charge faster.
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