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Old 09-03-2011, 10:46 PM   #1
BAWLZ SS

 
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Question SLP vs. BMR vs. Spohn vs. Whiteline Sway bars... is thicker better?

Hey everyone! I've been looking at sway bars for a while now and i was ready to purchase a set when i started paying a little bit more attention to all the specs on the bars. Example...

*SLP sways front 29mm 2 positions of adjustability and rear are 29mm thick with 3 positions.
*BMR front 29mm and rear 25mm with 3 positions of adjustability in each bar.
*Spohn front 29mm 1 position and rear 25mm with 3 positions of adjustability.
*Spohn (competition) front 32mm 1 position and rear 32mm solid with 3 positions of adjustability.
*Whiteline front and rear are 27mm with 3 positions of adjustability (I belive)
***STOCK OEM they are 23mm***

Well my queation is... Are the thicker the sway bars the better?? Do having more positions of adjustability better too?? Whats the difference from a sway that is solid chrome molly to one that is lightweight. I also notice that out of all the sway bars BMR happens to have the stiffest front and rear sways. Front sway +200% over stock and rear +300% stiffer over stock and rear sway is only 25mm compared to that Competition Spohn sway that is 32mm. If anyone can help me out on trying to figure out whats better and why i would really appreciate it! Thanks!!!!!
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Old 09-04-2011, 08:40 AM   #2
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Anti roll bars exist in order to combat body roll. Roll stiffness is a calculation based upon track width and vehicle weight. Once this calculation is made then a proper sized bar can be determined. However not all bars are created equal. A larger bar doesn't always mean stiffer. You have to take into account hollow bars versus solid bars and on hollow bars you have to account for wall thickness. Hollow bars have to be larger to work the same as a smaller solid bar. Also on hollow bars, during bending the wall thickness changes at those bends. Whiteline chooses solid bars and they also choose not to weld anything to their bars. The reason for this is simply so that they know there is no structural compromises during manufacturing and that the bar works as it was designed. Once you have the correct diameter bar based on calculation then you can add in adjustability for oversteer and understeer. We all know the Camaro suffers from understeer. By putting the rear bar at full stiff and the front in neutral this understeer is gone. But whiteline also gives front adjustability so the driver can tune the vehicle to his liking.

I have included a video which talks more about the adjustability of the whiteline sway bars.

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Old 09-04-2011, 01:26 PM   #3
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteside Customs View Post
Anti roll bars exist in order to combat body roll. Roll stiffness is a calculation based upon track width and vehicle weight. Once this calculation is made then a proper sized bar can be determined. However not all bars are created equal. A larger bar doesn't always mean stiffer. You have to take into account hollow bars versus solid bars and on hollow bars you have to account for wall thickness. Hollow bars have to be larger to work the same as a smaller solid bar. Also on hollow bars, during bending the wall thickness changes at those bends. Whiteline chooses solid bars and they also choose not to weld anything to their bars. The reason for this is simply so that they know there is no structural compromises during manufacturing and that the bar works as it was designed. Once you have the correct diameter bar based on calculation then you can add in adjustability for oversteer and understeer. We all know the Camaro suffers from understeer. By putting the rear bar at full stiff and the front in neutral this understeer is gone. But whiteline also gives front adjustability so the driver can tune the vehicle to his liking.

I have included a video which talks more about the adjustability of the whiteline sway bars.

... So just stay away from hollow bars. So now... I plan to take the car to the race track every now and then. Is a solid thicker bar in the rear better?? Is a stiffer bar also better for the track? Or the more adjustability better all around? I just want the car to be able to launch good!
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Old 09-04-2011, 01:44 PM   #4
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There's nothing wrong with hollow bars if they're engineered properly. Solid bars can be poorly engineered just as easily. Going stiffer in the back will reduce understeer but too stiff will increase oversteer. It'll depend on your total setup where you should adjust them to so adjustable are nice.
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Old 09-04-2011, 03:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAWLZ SS View Post
... So just stay away from hollow bars. So now... I plan to take the car to the race track every now and then. Is a solid thicker bar in the rear better?? Is a stiffer bar also better for the track? Or the more adjustability better all around? I just want the car to be able to launch good!
As was mentioned, hollow bars are fine if done right. Also welding the ends on the bars is fine, if done right. Pfadt and BMR weld their ends on. With as much abuse as they put their stuff through, I think they'd have had few failures by now if their parts were inferior.
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Old 09-04-2011, 03:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAWLZ SS View Post
... So just stay away from hollow bars.
Stay away from poorly designed and built hollow bars.
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Old 09-04-2011, 05:35 PM   #7
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A properly engineered hollow bar can be just as good as a solid bar. I was simply pointing out that a hollow bar has to be larger to perform the same as a smaller solid bar. At the end of the day each company spends a lot of time engineering their solution.

We have chosen to support BMR and white line products. Why? Simple, they work. Both companies spend countless hours designing, engineering, and then testing each product they release. They also stand behind what they sell and that is the most important factor for us.
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Old 09-05-2011, 02:40 PM   #8
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I have the 27mm pedders solution B bars. Assuming what whiteside said above regarding the swaybars settings for neutral handling apply to these as well? Looking for the flattest cornering and most neutral handling setup.
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Old 09-05-2011, 08:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stros View Post
I have the 27mm pedders solution B bars. Assuming what whiteside said above regarding the swaybars settings for neutral handling apply to these as well? Looking for the flattest cornering and most neutral handling setup.
Seeing that Pedders is always on here and Pete is very helpful, why not call or PM them to see what they recommend for your driving style.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:52 AM   #10
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I would like to throw our bars in the ring. We have many here who are very happy with our bars. very price and, performance competitive. Its not all about the thickness. design plays a big roll in anti roll. LOL you can call me anytime for more info or pricing. I always give a discount to members.
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Old 09-06-2011, 09:28 AM   #11
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As mentioned above, there are more factors beyond diameter that determine the rate of the sway bars and the effectiveness of the bars. This is accomplished with different wall thicknesses and different lever arm lengths.

Some companies just increase both bar diameters an equal amount assuming that the factory got the front-to-rear balance correct. GM specifically engineered understeer into this platform, a common practice for OE high performance cars because it makes them "safer" to drive for inexperienced drivers. Everyone has their opinion about this but we prefer to neutralize the understeer and start with a balanced car. To neutralize the understeer it takes a rear bar rate almost twice as stiff as the OE rate. This can be accomplished with the softest hole on our rear bar.

This has already been pointed out above but I just wanted to remind everyone why we use hollow bars. Arguments can be made in each direction but consider that Detroit, Europe and Japan all run hollow swaybars on every performance car they manufacture. It's not cheaper or easier to build them with tubing (in fact it's more expensive and complicated) so why do they do it? They do it for multiple reasons, the same reasons we do.

The Camaro gets better with each generation making our job more difficult (we make suspension for all 5 generations of the Camaro). We could have easily made our swaybars solid but we specifically chose to make them hollow, a much more difficult process. We could have also chose to make them non-adjustable to keep costs down but we didn't. Multiple tests and hours of research went into our swaybars to make a product worthy of this platform. In the end you get a completely adjustable bar that can adapt to your level of driving expertise, a bar manufactured with the most current technology, AND one that does both of these things while remaining competitively priced in the market.
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Old 09-06-2011, 10:44 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR guy View Post
As mentioned above, there are more factors beyond diameter that determine the rate of the sway bars and the effectiveness of the bars. This is accomplished with different wall thicknesses and different lever arm lengths.

Some companies just increase both bar diameters an equal amount assuming that the factory got the front-to-rear balance correct. GM specifically engineered understeer into this platform, a common practice for OE high performance cars because it makes them "safer" to drive for inexperienced drivers. Everyone has their opinion about this but we prefer to neutralize the understeer and start with a balanced car. To neutralize the understeer it takes a rear bar rate almost twice as stiff as the OE rate. This can be accomplished with the softest hole on our rear bar.

This has already been pointed out above but I just wanted to remind everyone why we use hollow bars. Arguments can be made in each direction but consider that Detroit, Europe and Japan all run hollow swaybars on every performance car they manufacture. It's not cheaper or easier to build them with tubing (in fact it's more expensive and complicated) so why do they do it? They do it for multiple reasons, the same reasons we do.

The Camaro gets better with each generation making our job more difficult (we make suspension for all 5 generations of the Camaro). We could have easily made our swaybars solid but we specifically chose to make them hollow, a much more difficult process. We could have also chose to make them non-adjustable to keep costs down but we didn't. Multiple tests and hours of research went into our swaybars to make a product worthy of this platform. In the end you get a completely adjustable bar that can adapt to your level of driving expertise, a bar manufactured with the most current technology, AND one that does both of these things while remaining competitively priced in the market.
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Old 09-06-2011, 11:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stros View Post
I have the 27mm pedders solution B bars. Assuming what whiteside said above regarding the swaybars settings for neutral handling apply to these as well? Looking for the flattest cornering and most neutral handling setup.

I'm pretty confident in saying yes those same settings should work very well.
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Old 09-06-2011, 09:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteside Customs View Post
A properly engineered hollow bar can be just as good as a solid bar. I was simply pointing out that a hollow bar has to be larger to perform the same as a smaller solid bar. At the end of the day each company spends a lot of time engineering their solution.

We have chosen to support BMR and white line products. Why? Simple, they work. Both companies spend countless hours designing, engineering, and then testing each product they release. They also stand behind what they sell and that is the most important factor for us.
There is a difference between hollow and solid bars. No matter how thick the hollow bar is, if they are both the same diameter and dimensions, the solid bar will outperform the hollow bar every time.

The weight difference is insignificant!. Considering the weight is so low to the ground
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