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Old 09-08-2011, 09:37 AM   #1
caverman


 
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Trying to decide if I should replace rear end bushings

Like most here my mod fund is pretty tapped but I'm about to have the money saved up to get some coilovers. Even though I really don't have the extra money I'm trying to decide if I should go ahead and do the rear end bushings while the car is at the shop.

I already have Pedders Stage 1 street which is the cradle inserts and radius rod inserts. Then I'll have the coilovers to go with it as well.

Part of me says "do it while it's at the shop so I don't have to make another trip and it should complete my suspension mods"....other part says "it's just more money and I'm not sure it will really make a difference".

I only have about 415 rwhp and probably won't increase that any more for several years. A set of 3.90 gears might come down the road but probably won't do a cam for a long time and I definatley won't spend the bank on a SC.

I'm leaning more towards doing them because the price is right and at this point what's a few hundred more......of course the wife doesn't see it that way.

Curious on some feedback though. Those of you that have done the rear end bushings did you feel and difference? Did your car hook up any better or get you quicker times at the drag strip?
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:06 AM   #2
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If you're talking about Diff bushings I would forgo doing them. In my opinion they don't provide a large enough performance gain to out weight the NVH that comes with them. We've installed every diff bushing offered and they DO transmit a lot more noise. That is my opinion and I honestly wish I hadn't done mine.

Please feel free to call, email or PM me anytime with questions or for pricing. Have a good one and I'll talk to you soon!

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:17 AM   #3
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Cool....thanks for the honest opinion. Says alot especially coming from a vendor.

Yes...I'm referring to the differential bushings and I'm also concerned about NVH as well. Some say you don't hear it much but that might be one of those things like exhaust. Everyone has their own opinion as to what is loud or not.

I can certainly put off the bushing install and do it another time. This is the kind of repsonses I'm looking for. True, real world experiences.

Thanks Jordan....
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:21 AM   #4
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I'm gonna have to disagree when you say they're not worth it. While they do transmit more noise (in my vehicle it's only when turning) they absolutely increase performance in the fact they eliminate the movement in the diff allowing you to plant the power you have.

I have some cars we have done that don't have any increase in noise at all.
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:00 PM   #5
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This is true, it all depends on how well the gear was setup in the the differential. The bushings themselves do not create noise, they only transfer existing noise. More times than not you will hear additional NVH with this mod and for some it will be worse than others. That being said, I have ridden in a few cars that were indistinguishable from stock. There are just no guarantees whether you have a noisey diff or not...
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteside Customs View Post
I'm gonna have to disagree when you say they're not worth it. While they do transmit more noise (in my vehicle it's only when turning) they absolutely increase performance in the fact they eliminate the movement in the diff allowing you to plant the power you have.

I have some cars we have done that don't have any increase in noise at all.
Everyone has their opinions but they do increase NVH and they don't add that much performance wise. The largest movement factor comes from the sub-frame mounts and I prefer using a solid solution. The factory diff bushings are honestly a pretty good piece (1/8" of hard bonded rubber) and offer minimal movement. The planting of power is achieved via sub-frame mounts. We've installed and tested all of these variations in road course environments as well as at the drag strip; I stand behind my statement.



I'll work on a video that shows the difference between a stock diff bushing combo and a polyurethane combo to see just how much movement is really there. I have the solid sub-frame mounts in my Camaro and I didn't get any increase in NVH until the diff bushings went in. We've done around 15-20 poly bushing set ups here and everyone has added resonance even with stock sub-frame mounts.

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR guy View Post
This is true, it all depends on how well the gear was setup in the the differential. The bushings themselves do not create noise, they only transfer existing noise. More times than not you will hear additional NVH with this mod and for some it will be worse than others. That being said, I have ridden in a few cars that were indistinguishable from stock. There are just no guarantees whether you have a noisey diff or not...
You're 100% correct about the bushings not causing the noise but they do unmask the factories tolerance issues. The bottom line is the majority of the cars out there don't have perfectly set up diffs and they will have more NVH with the poly bushings. I run my Camaro hard and I can't quantify any gain going with the poly bushings.

Kind regards,

Jordan
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDP Motorsports View Post
I'll work on a video that shows the difference between a stock diff bushing combo and a polyurethane combo to see just how much movement is really there. I have the solid sub-frame mounts in my Camaro and I didn't get any increase in NVH until the diff bushings went in. We've done around 15-20 poly bushing set ups here and everyone has added resonance even with stock sub-frame mounts.


That would be nice. I'm sure several people would like to see that video.

I did get an ever so slight noise after adding cradle inserts. However, it's only over certain bumps. 95% of the time with normal drivning I haven't heard a change at all.

I'm still undecided on the diff bushings. BMR guy is probably right...it's going to make a difference on how the rear is setup. This might explain why some people say they hear a noise and others don't. Plus like I mentioned before I think it might also be partly a personal preference thing. Some people might hear a little noise and shrug it off as slight and no big deal where others might hear the same noise and it bug them to no end.
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteside Customs View Post
I'm gonna have to disagree when you say they're not worth it. While they do transmit more noise (in my vehicle it's only when turning) they absolutely increase performance in the fact they eliminate the movement in the diff allowing you to plant the power you have.

I have some cars we have done that don't have any increase in noise at all.
I have the BMR kit and i feel very little nvh then before...I can definitely tell u that my rear is way better launch hard.....with my stock 366 rwhp i was losing control....I would do it...just dont go full metal ...this will definitely be noisy in the street
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:13 PM   #9
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If you're making 600+ RWHP and you do a lot of drag racing Poly bushings might have some benefit. In Caverman's case I wouldn't suggest them. That is my opinion based on my experiences. I will work on putting a video together.

Kind regards,

Jordan
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Old 09-08-2011, 03:02 PM   #10
Whiteside Customs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDP Motorsports View Post
Everyone has their opinions but they do increase NVH and they don't add that much performance wise. The largest movement factor comes from the sub-frame mounts and I prefer using a solid solution. The factory diff bushings are honestly a pretty good piece (1/8" of hard bonded rubber) and offer minimal movement. The planting of power is achieved via sub-frame mounts. We've installed and tested all of these variations in road course environments as well as at the drag strip; I stand behind my statement.



I'll work on a video that shows the difference between a stock diff bushing combo and a polyurethane combo to see just how much movement is really there. I have the solid sub-frame mounts in my Camaro and I didn't get any increase in NVH until the diff bushings went in. We've done around 15-20 poly bushing set ups here and everyone has added resonance even with stock sub-frame mounts.

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
888.308.6007



You're 100% correct about the bushings not causing the noise but they do unmask the factories tolerance issues. The bottom line is the majority of the cars out there don't have perfectly set up diffs and they will have more NVH with the poly bushings. I run my Camaro hard and I can't quantify any gain going with the poly bushings.

Kind regards,

Jordan

I look forward to your video. I think what you find will surprise you. During the early days of the G8, Mike Haddad had Pedders diff bushings installed in his Magnacharged G8 putting just under 500rwhp. Everytime he would accelerate he heard a thunk in the rear. What could be the cause? He already had eurethane bushings installed, right? Turns out there was still movement in the diff upon acceleration, so much so that the diff was hitting the subframe making this noise. This is the reason the Pedders HD bush exists.

So I can honestly say that the bushing are absolutely paramount in getting the foundation of the camaro suspension under control.
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Old 09-08-2011, 03:12 PM   #11
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10-4 to what everyone has said
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:28 PM   #12
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The main benefit that I had after doing mine was that the rear was so loud it sounded like a supercharger was under the rear seat......my rear was about to let loose, which was caught right before it did, and I had it rebuilt under warranty at the dealer.

I still get NVH with the new rear, it's liveable, I have a loud exhaust!

If you do go with solid subframe bushings (Pfadt) I don't think you'll be unhappy at all.
I love mine, the rear stays planted during hard straight line acceleration and in the turns, and I haven't noticed any harshness from them.
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