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Old 09-09-2011, 06:01 PM   #251
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In addition to your duties as Director of Rebel Force Intelligence I am adding ZL1 FACT CHECK to your responsibilities.
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:06 PM   #252
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I missed the Chevrolet announcement that gave the curb weight of the ZL1?????
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:20 PM   #253
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4200 lbs = FAIL

it would've been great if they somehow kept it under 4
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:23 PM   #254
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4200 pounds....with powdered rods and cast silicon pistons?

I thought this was the ULTRA Camaro?

Color me unimpressed.....Right now the GT500 is still bringing more to the table guys.

Get the weight down and put some forged internals in it and you'll have a MONSTER on your hands.

As far as keeping the faith.....after what I've gone through with my car...that ship has long since sailed.
sorry to say i do agree. they dropped the ball IMO by not adding forged internals like the shelby
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:24 PM   #255
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Let me state this
IT IS NOT CONFIRMED TO BE 4200 POUNDS
Now, we will have to wait till we see this. And sure the gt500 may get more horsepower, but there is no way it will perform near as well on a track.
I can't hear you...

IMO - Tran should post this on the Home Page, too...
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:31 PM   #256
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Totally amazing and above expectations. But, that's the awesome GM these days! Thanks for the updates. Any more updates? Come on, I can handle it. WOW!
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:36 PM   #257
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I missed the Chevrolet announcement that gave the curb weight of the ZL1?????
Oh, it is there. You just have to automatically believe everything that car magazines say on unreleased vehicles and act like they are gospel (omg, the GT500 is getting 650 HP!!!!).
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:37 PM   #258
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In addition to your duties as Director of Rebel Force Intelligence I am adding ZL1 FACT CHECK to your responsibilities.
Im going to need one of these for those who post false information or dwell on false information...






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Old 09-09-2011, 06:47 PM   #259
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I don't think it will be possible for the Mustang to be 1 step ahead of the Camaro in it's current generation.
Mustang doesn't have MRC or IRS just to name a few.
2011 GT500 is faster than the CTS-V with MRC and IRS. Heck the Boss with less HP and no MRC and no IRS is faster than the CTS-V.

I don't know why people persist on being ignorant about the supposed benefits of IRS and MRC. MRC doesn't improve performance - it just makes the ride more comfortable. Cars with regular racing suspension perform better than MRC. Case in point: Nissan GT-R.
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:52 PM   #260
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2011 GT500 is faster than the CTS-V with MRC and IRS.

Source?
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:52 PM   #261
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Oh man Thats sooooo cool.
I want one, NOW
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:02 PM   #262
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I don't know why everyone is surprised at the weight gains.

Here look, base SS = 3840lbs

+ 100lbs for supercharger kit (intercooler + fluid) (A ATI Procharger kit, 2 core intercooled is 100lbs.)
+ 80lbs in stronger drivetrain components, transmission, clutch and exhaust piping
+ 80lbs in heavier wheels & tires
+ 40lbs (?) because of MRC
+ 20lbs for engine oil cooler
+ 20lbs for rear differential cooler

= +340lbs

add that to 3840 and you have 4180lbs. Now subtract the difference between hydraulic steering vs electric and you have a close estimate of the final weight. I am not including the carbon fiber hood, because the SS aluminum hood is already light, and the ZL1 hood is already slightly bigger than the SS hood, and the SS hood has the mailslot which we all know GM installed to save at least 30lbs of weight off the hood ;-)
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:03 PM   #263
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2011 GT500 is faster than the CTS-V with MRC and IRS. Heck the Boss with less HP and no MRC and no IRS is faster than the CTS-V.

I don't know why people persist on being ignorant about the supposed benefits of IRS and MRC. MRC doesn't improve performance - it just makes the ride more comfortable. Cars with regular racing suspension perform better than MRC. Case in point: Nissan GT-R.
Sorry but this is flat out wrong. How can a generic damper be better than one that adapts multiple times per second to the track? It can't be. Yes, MRC can soften the ride but this is a side effect and added bonus. If a car without MRC is faster than a car with MRC it is due to other factors. You'd have to fit both to the same car for equal comparison. Also the Corvette ZR1 is faster at the ring than the GT-R so your case in point is also wrong.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...eife_lap_times
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:04 PM   #264
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Source?
http://www.leftlanenews.com/2011-for...nds-video.html
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:08 PM   #265
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Im going to need one of these for those who post false information or dwell on false information...






LOL Mac, and hand a few to the MODS as well, it's getting pretty deep in here,....anybody seen the shovel???
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:09 PM   #266
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Sorry but this is flat out wrong. How can a generic damper be better than one that adapts multiple times per second to the track? It can't be. Yes, MRC can soften the ride but this is a side effect and added bonus. If a car without MRC is faster than a car with MRC it is due to other factors. You'd have to fit both to the same car for equal comparison. Also the Corvette ZR1 is faster at the ring than the GT-R so your case in point is also wrong.
and the Lexus LFA, which also does not have MRC beats the ZR1. And all the cars faster than the ZR1 at Nurburgring also don't have MRC.

I agree that you have to fit the suspensions to the same car to make an accurate comparison but we don't have such a real-life example. We only have real-life examples of what companies do.

MRC is not like the magical BOSE magnetic suspension. It's just softening or hardening the damping liquid. In other words, a car with a high performance setting on the dampers will perform as well as MRC - it just won't be as comfortable. Furthermore, on a race course, you're not going to have the same road variances as the street, thus making MRC pretty redundant on a course. I maintain my argument that MRC is purely for street purposes, and in that regard is fantastic.
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:13 PM   #267
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So for 580 HP GM buffs up tranny and drivetrain but people put a SC to their SS and don't, getting say 599+ HP.

If I were to buy a SC, should I follow GM's lead and buff up internal parts?
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:17 PM   #268
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Per the video you shared it says they were at Virginia International Raceway Grand West Course and per the article it says they used fastestlaps.com to get the times. Unfortunately fastestlaps.com doesn't have stats for that track, only the main track. On top of that Fastestslaps.com doesnt even list the 2011 GT500 at Virginia international raceway. Im calling shenanigans on leftlane news on this one..... there is no direct comparison of the two.

I can only find one direct comparison between the 2011 GT500 and a 2011 CTS-V.... and its a toss up!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...cadillac-cts-v

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Old 09-09-2011, 07:22 PM   #269
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4200 lbs = FAIL

it would've been great if they somehow kept it under 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggerorange73 View Post
4200 pounds....with powdered rods and cast silicon pistons?

I thought this was the ULTRA Camaro?

Color me unimpressed.....Right now the GT500 is still bringing more to the table guys.

Get the weight down and put some forged internals in it and you'll have a MONSTER on your hands.

As far as keeping the faith.....after what I've gone through with my car...that ship has long since sailed.

Quote:
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sorry to say i do agree. they dropped the ball IMO by not adding forged internals like the shelby

... I would like to say...if ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise...

Rissim, rassam, frissim, frassam....Mac, where's the ban hammer???
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:24 PM   #270
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... I would like to say...if ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise...

Rissim, rassam, frissim, frassam....Mac, where's the ban hammer???
If ignorance were bliss, a lot of these folks would be positively orgasmic.
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:24 PM   #271
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and the Lexus LFA, which also does not have MRC beats the ZR1. And all the cars faster than the ZR1 at Nurburgring also don't have MRC.

I agree that you have to fit the suspensions to the same car to make an accurate comparison but we don't have such a real-life example. We only have real-life examples of what companies do.

MRC is not like the magical BOSE magnetic suspension. It's just softening or hardening the damping liquid. In other words, a car with a high performance setting on the dampers will perform as well as MRC - it just won't be as comfortable. Furthermore, on a race course, you're not going to have the same road variances as the street, thus making MRC pretty redundant on a course. I maintain my argument that MRC is purely for street purposes, and in that regard is fantastic.
This isn't true. Any race team would love the ability to tune for each corner, under breaking, on the straigts... A damper curve for a specific track is an average and a compromise. Not better. Compromise and best fit. What do you think dampers do? The increase resistance to compression and rebound - exactly what the MRC is doing, but instead of a generic curve it is able to adjust many times per second. puting it in tour mode adjusts the firmness offset, but there is much more to the damper than that.

I hate Bose and I know there is no magic bullet, but a properly responding MRC will always be better than a generic damper. The end.

We've agreed comparing cars is useless and I was just countering your original point.
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:35 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by scritchy View Post
If ignorance were bliss, a lot of these folks would be positively orgasmic.
Just trying to do my duties as good Camaro5'er to stop the spread of mis-information!




Just to clarify....
The weight of the ZL1 has not been announced by GM!!
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:45 PM   #273
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:45 PM   #274
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and the Lexus LFA, which also does not have MRC beats the ZR1.
A special edition LFA beat the ZR1's time.... and it was a 2009 ZR1. Notice the actual LFA is at #33

Lap times (258)

Pos Make / Model Time Speed (km/h) Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg) Driven by
1. Radical SR8LM 6:48.00 182 0 455 / 650 Michael Vergers
2. Radical SR8 6:55.00 179 '05 363 / 650 Michael Vergers
3. Gumpert Apollo Speed 7:11.57 172 '09 700 / 1200 Florian Gruber
4. Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package 7:14.64 171 '12 570 / 1509 Lexus/Akira Lida
5. Donkervoort D8 RS 7:14.89 171 '05 350 / 600 Michael Duechting
6. Porsche 997 GT2 RS 7:18.00 169 '10 620 / 1370 Timo Kluck
7. Radical SR3 Turbo 7:19.00 169 '03 320 / 500 Phil Bennett
8. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 7:19.63 169 '08 647 / 1530 GM testdriver
9. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 7:22.10 168 '08 600 / 1536 Motor Trend
10. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 7:22.68 168 '11 512 / 1394 GM
11. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 7:22.68 168 '11 512 / 1394 GM
12. Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package 7:22.85 167 '12 570 / 1509 Akira Iida
13. Gumpert Apollo Sport 7:24.00 167 '07 700 / 1200 sportauto
14. Nissan GT-R (Mk II) 7:24.22 167 '11 530 / 1736 Nissan
15. Maserati MC12 7:24.29 167 '04 632 / 1335 Marc Basseng
16. Pagani Zonda F Clubsport 7:24.65 167 '05 650 / 1230 Marc Basseng
17. Ferrari Enzo 7:25.21 167 '02 660 / 1365 Marc Basseng
18. Nissan GT-R 7:26.70 166 '08 479 / 1740 Toshio Suzuki
19. Porsche 997 GT3 RS 4.0 7:27.00 166 '11 500 / 1360 Porsche testdriver
20. Ferrari 458 Italia 7:28.00 166 '09 570 / 1485 Scuderia Autoropa
21. Porsche Carrera GT 7:28.71 165 '03 612 / 1380 Marc Basseng
22. Porsche 997 GT3 RS 4.0 7:30.00 165 '11 500 / 1360 Horst von Saurma
23. Porsche 911 GT2 7:31.00 164 '07 530 / 1440 Walter Röhrl
24. Porsche 997 Turbo S 7:32.00 164 '10 530 / 1585 Walter Rohlr
25. Pagani Zonda F 7:33.00 164 '05 602 / 1371 Sport Auto
26. Porsche 997 GT3 RS (facelift) 7:33.00 164 '10 450 / 1400 sportauto
27. Koenigsegg CCX 7:33.55 164 '06 806 / 1456 Marc Basseng
28. Koenigsegg CCR 7:34.00 163 '04 806 / 1418 Sport Auto
29. Audi R8 GT 7:34.00 163 '10 560 / 1520 Horst von Saurma
30. Nissan GT-R Spec-V 7:34.46 163 '09 492 / 1680 Best Motoring
31. RUF RT12 7:35.00 163 '05 650 / 1573 Sport Auto
32. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:38.00 162 '06 480 / 1585 Porsche
33. Lexus LF-A 7:38.00 162 '10 560 / 1609 Sportauto


EDIT: I was just informed that the 7:19 lap time for the ZL1 was actually a 2012 not a 2009. Thanks DG!

Last edited by ShnOmac; 09-09-2011 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:48 PM   #275
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Okay lets get back on topic.....There is a VS section for this stuff.
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