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Old 09-20-2011, 12:07 AM   #1
idealneil
 
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Muffler Delete Questions

I have looked through here and not really found these answers.
I have a 2011 2SS/RS A6 and thinking of doing a muffler delete.
What are the pros and cons? Will this pass inspection in Texas?
Any dealership service dept. issues? Are cat backs a better option and if they are why?
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:27 AM   #2
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Do it. As long as you don't alter the OEM cats, you're good on your inspection. The same thing applies to warranty. They don't care what you do aft of the cats. While you're at it, lose the resonator too (replace it with an x-pipe).

There is one thing you should know, though. If you don't already hate AFM, you definitely will after the muffler delete. Unless you're prepared to tune it out (which is what many of us have done), you may not want a more aggressive exhaust. Tuning out the AFM can be grounds for denying your powertrain warranty.
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Old 09-20-2011, 06:57 AM   #3
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Solo J-Pipe exhaust is a "muffler delete" with an added j-pipe to eliminate drone.
No need to do a tune or void your warranty.
Check them out.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:06 AM   #4
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I was looking at the Pypes delete it is suppose to help with the
pops. I am just not sure if there are any benefits of doing cat backs or the delete I do like the sound of the delete vs the axel or cat backs
but what are the pros and cons of performance?
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idealneil View Post
...I do like the sound of the delete vs the axel or cat backs
but what are the pros and cons of performance?
It certainly can't hurt.

How do you like that for a definitive answer, supportd by absolutely no empiracle, scientific data?

Seriously, though, you will flow a little more air with the delete. Will there be a noticeable HP gain? Probably not. But, it will sound a heck-of-a-lot better.
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:53 PM   #6
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Ehhhh, not so much

I have a SS/RS M6 that I put the Cherry Bomb CatBack Sytem on. It comes with an X-Pipe and Cherry Bomb Extreme mufflers. I wanted to try the delete so I loosened my clamps and had some turn-downs put on from a local muffler shop.

I'm listing details (not necessarily pros or cons considering some people like drone some don't. Some people like the pop, some don't, etc.)

  • WOT is louder and more raspy
  • Popping on deceleration is so frequent it actually sounds like its running on bad gas
  • There is no drone (even though I love drone)
  • It is quieter than the Cherry Bombs at idle
  • Shifting gear sounds sick (like a corsa exhaust system)
  • The turn-downs are a cheap alternative as opposed to routing the pipes out the back holes but it will kick up dust
  • I felt (and it could have just been me) that HP was actually decreased.
  • From the majority of the threads mufflers alone will not improve or hurt HP.
  • If your looking for loud and raspy, go with the delete (but remember from my experience I already had an X pipe.)
  • The Cherry Bomb system RUMBLES! As my car is named "Thunder" I felt that it took away from the whole idea of starting my car and shaking the house. This system is surprisingly cheap and sounds much better than Corsa or Borla from my experiences in hearing them.
I hope this helped!
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastwoodisme View Post
I have a SS/RS M6 that I put the Cherry Bomb CatBack Sytem on. It comes with an X-Pipe and Cherry Bomb Extreme mufflers. I wanted to try the delete so I loosened my clamps and had some turn-downs put on from a local muffler shop.

I'm listing details (not necessarily pros or cons considering some people like drone some don't. Some people like the pop, some don't, etc.)

  • WOT is louder and more raspy
  • Popping on deceleration is so frequent it actually sounds like its running on bad gas
  • There is no drone (even though I love drone)
  • It is quieter than the Cherry Bombs at idle
  • Shifting gear sounds sick (like a corsa exhaust system)
  • The turn-downs are a cheap alternative as opposed to routing the pipes out the back holes but it will kick up dust
  • I felt (and it could have just been me) that HP was actually decreased.
  • From the majority of the threads mufflers alone will not improve or hurt HP.
  • If your looking for loud and raspy, go with the delete (but remember from my experience I already had an X pipe.)
  • The Cherry Bomb system RUMBLES! As my car is named "Thunder" I felt that it took away from the whole idea of starting my car and shaking the house. This system is surprisingly cheap and sounds much better than Corsa or Borla from my experiences in hearing them.
I hope this helped!
I agree with everything you list here, but the OP has an L99. It won't be the popping that annoys him (I actually like the decel pop), it'll be the "bees-in-the-coffee-can" sound from the AFM.

The other thing worth noting about the L99 stock exhaust is this:

Trying to choose between "delete" and Cherry Bombs (or any other cat/axle-back system) versus staying stock, is like living at the north pole and trying to decide whether you should move to San Diego or Miami. Either one is an improvement. With the behemoth resonator on the L99 (which is there to cancel out the ridiculous AFM gurgling), those mufflers are overkill. You might as well be driving a Prius, as far as the exhaust note goes.
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Last edited by kmcd; 09-20-2011 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:25 PM   #8
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what is AFM? i have a ls3
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:29 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Parag View Post
what is AFM? i have a ls3
Active Fuel Management

Active Fuel Management (formerly known as Displacement on Demand) is a trademarked name for the automobile variable displacement technology from General Motors. It allows a V6 or V8 engine to "turn off" half of the cylinders under light-load conditions to improve fuel economy. Estimated performance on EPA tests show a 5.5%-7.5% improvement in fuel economy.[1]
GM's current Active Fuel Management technology uses a solenoid to deactivate the lifters on selected cylinders of a pushrod V-layout engine.


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Old 09-20-2011, 06:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmcd View Post
I agree with everything you list here, but the OP has an L99. It won't be the popping that annoys him (I actually like the decel pop), it'll be the "bees-in-the-coffee-can" sound from the AFM.
Exactly. If the four-cylinder mode sound doesn't bother you, I highly recommend the Solo Axle-back with Jpipes. I love them on my LS3, but i rode in an L99 with them and the AFM sounded ugly, but that's going to be true with any louder exhaust system on an L99.
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Old 09-20-2011, 07:57 PM   #11
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I did the delete, I also put in the flowmaster X-pipe to help with popping. It helps in weight reduction and has better sound than stock. It is less restrictive and the x pipe will help with the flow between both sides...

It's a cheaper alternative to doing a full exhaust system.

some pics here:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46732

Pros: cheap, weight loss, easy, CHEAP
cons: ? no fancy tips (although you can run straight pipe and use your stock tips), the rear diffuser now catches air, dust from turndowns (not that big a deal though)
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Looks: powder coated iom calipers, LED foglights w/ always on harness, custom painted bowties, window tint, smoke tinted tail lights etc, oem gfx w/ custom outlets, painted taillight bezels, all weather trunk mat
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmcd View Post
Do it. As long as you don't alter the OEM cats, you're good on your inspection. The same thing applies to warranty. They don't care what you do aft of the cats. While you're at it, lose the resonator too (replace it with an x-pipe).

There is one thing you should know, though. If you don't already hate AFM, you definitely will after the muffler delete. Unless you're prepared to tune it out (which is what many of us have done), you may not want a more aggressive exhaust. Tuning out the AFM can be grounds for denying your powertrain warranty.
Understanding the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975.

Nearly everyone has heard about someone who has taken a vehicle that has been modified with aftermarket parts to a dealer for warranty service, only to have the dealer refuse to cover the defective items. The dealer usually states that because of the aftermarket parts the warranty is void, without even attempting to determine whether the aftermarket part caused the problem.

This is illegal.

Vehicle manufacturers are not allowed to void the vehicle warranty just because aftermarket parts are on the vehicle. To better understand this problem it is best to know the differences between the two types of new car warranties and the two types of emission warranties.

When a vehicle is purchased new and the owner is protected against the faults that may occur by an expressed warranty - an offer by the manufacturer to assume the responsibility for problems with predetermined parts during a stated period of time. Beyond the expressed warranty, the vehicle manufacturer is often held responsible for further implied warranties. These state that a manufactured product should meet certain standards. However, in both cases, the mere presence of aftermarket parts doesn't void the warranty.

There are also two emission warranties (defect and performance) required under the clean air act. The defect warranty requires the manufacturer to produce a vehicle which, at the time of sale, is free of defects that would cause it to not meet the required emission levels for it's useful life as defined in the law. The performance warranty implies a vehicle must maintain certain levels of emission performance over it's useful life. If the vehicle fails to meet the performance warranty requirements, the manufacturer must make repairs at no cost to the owner, even if an aftermarket part is directly responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer cannot void the performance warranty. This protection is the result of a parts self - certification program developed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA).

In cases where such a failed aftermarket part is responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer must arrange a settlement with the consumer, but by law the new - vehicle warranty is not voided.

Overall, the laws governing warranties are very clear. The only time a new vehicle warranty can be voided is if an aftermarket part has been installed and it can be proven that it is responsible for an emission warranty claim. However, a vehicle manufacturer or dealership cannot void a warranty simply because an an aftermarket equipment has been installed on a vehicle.

If a dealership denies a warranty claim and you think the claim falls under the rules explained above concerning the clean air act (such as an emission part failure), obtain a written explanation of the dealers refusal. Then follow the steps outlined in the owners manual. However, if this fails, then phone your complaint in to the EPA at (202) 233-9040 or (202) 326-9100.
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idealneil View Post
I was looking at the Pypes delete it is suppose to help with the
pops. I am just not sure if there are any benefits of doing cat backs or the delete I do like the sound of the delete vs the axel or cat backs
but what are the pros and cons of performance?

Idealneil – We’ve had many customers perform the muffler delete on their Camaros and switch to our systems within a couple of days. They complain of the exhaust being too raspy and annoyingly loud. They have found a happy middle ground between our American Thunder kit and the terrible sound of doing a muffler delete, with our new Outlaw Axle-Back.

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Old 09-21-2011, 03:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flowmann View Post
Idealneil – We’ve had many customers perform the muffler delete on their Camaros and switch to our systems within a couple of days. They complain of the exhaust being too raspy and annoyingly loud. They have found a happy middle ground between our American Thunder kit and the terrible sound of doing a muffler delete, with our new Outlaw Axle-Back.
I guess everything is subjective, but I don't think this sounds terrible. I think it sounds the way a muscle car is supposed to sound.

This is with mufflers and resonator deleted - cutouts and x-pipe added:



Don't get me wrong. I like Flowmasters, and have owned quite a few of them in the past. The problem is the OEM cats on these cars are so restrictive, that any muffler and/or resonator behind them is overkill. There's just not enough exhaust note aft of the cats to accommodate a muffler (Flowmaster or otherwise) without sounding anemic.
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Last edited by kmcd; 09-21-2011 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 09-21-2011, 06:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flowmann View Post
Idealneil – We’ve had many customers perform the muffler delete on their Camaros and switch to our systems within a couple of days. They complain of the exhaust being too raspy and annoyingly loud. They have found a happy middle ground between our American Thunder kit and the terrible sound of doing a muffler delete, with our new Outlaw Axle-Back.
Most cat-back systems i've heard are louder and more raspy than my muffler delete. (i still have stock LS3 resonators and cats.)
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Old 09-22-2011, 04:47 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Li0nel1234 View Post
I did the delete, I also put in the flowmaster X-pipe to help with popping. It helps in weight reduction and has better sound than stock. It is less restrictive and the x pipe will help with the flow between both sides...

It's a cheaper alternative to doing a full exhaust system.

some pics here:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46732

Pros: cheap, weight loss, easy, CHEAP
cons: ? no fancy tips (although you can run straight pipe and use your stock tips), the rear diffuser now catches air, dust from turndowns (not that big a deal though)
Lionel1234 – Cool write-up! Do you have video of the sound of your car inside and outside? We imagine it must get a deep exhaust sound inside the car.

Did you install the Flowmaster X-Pipe at the same time or did you do it after performing the muffler delete?

Nice looking Camaro too! It looks like you open-track it or autocross it.
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Lionel1234 – Cool write-up! Do you have video of the sound of your car inside and outside? We imagine it must get a deep exhaust sound inside the car.

Did you install the Flowmaster X-Pipe at the same time or did you do it after performing the muffler delete?

Nice looking Camaro too! It looks like you open-track it or autocross it.
I don't have video, i can take some this weekend. I did the x pipe a bit after because the popping was a little harsh. The xpipe helped it a lot.

thanks on the compliments.
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Old 09-23-2011, 07:49 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by John Deere Boy View Post
Exactly. If the four-cylinder mode sound doesn't bother you, I highly recommend the Solo Axle-back with Jpipes. I love them on my LS3, but i rode in an L99 with them and the AFM sounded ugly, but that's going to be true with any louder exhaust system on an L99.
I disagree. The Solo J-Pipes eliminate the 4 cyl drone. Your the only one here that ever said a J-pipe system sounds ugly on the L99. Let's not make this a LS3 vs L99 debate.
There's nothing but great sound on my L99 with Solo J-Pipes.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:01 AM   #19
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I did the muffler delete(about 3 weeks ago), and I dont find it loud at all...

Ive listened to almost all the CAT back systems online and they all pretty much sound the same on a stock system. Yea they change the tone slightly, but not worth the money you would spend VS the muffler delete! Even the guy who did the exhaust was surprised about how good it sounded.

The best way I can explain it, it sounds like a muffled flowmaster. I do have the deacceleration popping, which I dont like, but I might try that flowmaster X-pipe. I would like to do the full exhaust with headers, so Im just going to wait and save up for that.

And no it wont void your warranty.....now if you put headers on they could try to give you crap about the O2 sensors, or cats....but anything cat back they wouldnt be able to say jack about it!

Id say over all Im pretty happy with the muffler delete. And you cant beat the price!!
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