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Old 09-23-2011, 09:23 AM   #101
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Ahh... Those two videos are the best way to get the day started
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:36 AM   #102
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Have you guys noticed the lateral G's that the car is doing on the first video and the speeds its doing them at? This thing is going to be AWESOME on the track!
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:46 AM   #103
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sic..

LC = drag racing for dummies?
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:56 AM   #104
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I wished the videos worked here on a Gov computer!
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:01 AM   #105
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I wished the videos worked here on a Gov computer!

Call up your help desk and tell them to snap to it!!! This is important material that needs to be viewed!
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:01 AM   #106
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sic..

LC = drag racing for dummies?
But I'll still being trying it. It looks like that IRS needs a full bushing complement... That wheelhop is worrying... I planned on that anyways, so no biggie to me
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:02 AM   #107
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Call up your help desk and tell them to snap to it!!! This is important material that needs to be viewed!
It's a matter of national pride!!!
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:02 AM   #108
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But I'll still being trying it. It looks like that IRS needs a full bushing complement... That wheelhop is worrying... I planned on that anyways, so no biggie to me

Yeah I can't wait to see what the aftermarket guys come up with.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:05 AM   #109
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Yeah I can't wait to see what the aftermarket guys come up with.
JP... care to comment?
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:06 AM   #110
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Yeah I can't wait to see what the aftermarket guys come up with.
Exactly. I imagine the subframe bushings will be the same, but I'm sure the differential bushings will be different. I was planning on going through all the bushings, anyways, front to back. While I'm always about POWER, this car's going to have way more than I've had, and I want to make sure I make use of ALL the power available. I may do springs at the same time, but I know there are still going to be little compromises, but I'd sacrifice a little NVH for a completely controlled ride.

I watch these videos like a dozen times a day, LOL. I can't believe how good it sounds. I LOVE the quick 1-second flash we get of a great sound of the SC whine, OMG.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:07 AM   #111
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JP... care to comment?
Exactly... I definately see some opportunities
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:16 AM   #112
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There's a ZR1 at 2:05 with ZL1 wheels in the track testing video
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:19 AM   #113
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I may do springs at the same time, but I know there are still going to be little compromises, but I'd sacrifice a little NVH for a completely controlled ride.
I'm not sure if I'd mess with the springs considering they were tuned with the magnetic dampers... but that's just me. A spring rate change may require a dampening force change to completely balance the car back to where it was before.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:23 AM   #114
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I'm not sure if I'd mess with the springs considering they were tuned with the magnetic dampers... but that's just me. A spring rate change may require a dampening force change to completely balance the car back to where it was before.

I see a new employment position opening up with Pfadt, Pedders, and any other suspension tuning company...Magnetic Ride control tuner. You're right though, the data fields will need to be tinkered with if different equipment is added.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:34 AM   #115
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I heard they have slowly began to assemble the engines together in Oshawa.
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:16 PM   #116
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Most of us have modified Camaros but the technology in the ZL1 suspension has made me rethink this. What can an aftermarket company develop to sell for a profit that has the level of engineering and research $$ that Chevrolet has put into this car? MRControl improvements \ bushings? Are you kidding? Did you see that car circling N'Burg? I understand the need for us to play with our cars but this is similar to when EFI came out - took a long time for us lay people to understand the technology. Regarding the engine, maybe headers, pulley change and revised engine management by a tuner company to "out hp" the ZR1 Vette, but not much else IMO is needed - could mess up a great package!!
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:34 PM   #117
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Most of us have modified Camaros but the technology in the ZL1 suspension has made me rethink this. What can an aftermarket company develop to sell for a profit that has the level of engineering and research $$ that Chevrolet has put into this car? MRControl improvements \ bushings? Are you kidding? Did you see that car circling N'Burg? I understand the need for us to play with our cars but this is similar to when EFI came out - took a long time for us lay people to understand the technology. Regarding the engine, maybe headers, pulley change and revised engine management by a tuner company to "out hp" the ZR1 Vette, but not much else IMO is needed - could mess up a great package!!

Exactly.

There are always things such as bushings that can be improved from OEM just because they’ve used cheaper materials to save cost but there won't be many aftermarket parts that can actually yield an improvement for this car beyond a HP increase or weight savings. Even increasing the HP could change the way the car handles out of a corner and have a negative effect on the launch control – the car was designed and tuned as a total refined package and that’s why I’m leaving it that way. I’m not suggesting people shouldn’t modify the ZL1, but I’d personally be very careful about choosing mods that will actually improve the car. Conventional wisdom of aftermarket performance does not necessarily apply to this car IMO…

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Old 09-23-2011, 02:59 PM   #118
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I'm not sure if I'd mess with the springs considering they were tuned with the magnetic dampers... but that's just me. A spring rate change may require a dampening force change to completely balance the car back to where it was before.
To my understanding, CTS-V owners don't have a problem with springs and their MR suspension. HOWEVER, I do conceed that ZL1 is getting the Gen III MR, so... if the suspension can monitor 1000 times a second, I don't quite see why the dynamics would change too much, but I'm sure I'm missing something.

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Originally Posted by armysig View Post
I see a new employment position opening up with Pfadt, Pedders, and any other suspension tuning company...Magnetic Ride control tuner. You're right though, the data fields will need to be tinkered with if different equipment is added.
Yeah - I'm on the fence with the cradle and differential bushings...

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I heard they have slowly began to assemble the engines together in Oshawa.
LSAs for CTS-V are assembled in Mexico, I believe. I would've figured ZL1's LSAs would be assembled in the same plant. Unless you're not talking about production motors, which, now, I think you are since they are probably still in preproduction-type cars.

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Most of us have modified Camaros but the technology in the ZL1 suspension has made me rethink this. What can an aftermarket company develop to sell for a profit that has the level of engineering and research $$ that Chevrolet has put into this car? MRControl improvements \ bushings? Are you kidding? Did you see that car circling N'Burg? I understand the need for us to play with our cars but this is similar to when EFI came out - took a long time for us lay people to understand the technology. Regarding the engine, maybe headers, pulley change and revised engine management by a tuner company to "out hp" the ZR1 Vette, but not much else IMO is needed - could mess up a great package!!
Bushings and springs - I think the aftermaket can easily compete. MR-type shocks, though, I think that's a lot to ask. They'd have to be able to crack the software for the tuning and then all the rest of that electronic wizardry.

IMVHO - Options from Pedders and Pfadt, for example, could easily be better for race-type conditions. While I've rode in a car on Xas, and have not on Pfadts, I know for certain the ride can definately be great for the street. Shocks from at least these two examples probably can outperform on a track better and longer than the MRs. I've read they don't really do too well in race applications, but I don't know how true that is. I know that GM's done a great job but I'm thinking it's more for the casual driver - not someone looking to go out every weekend for some auto'X action. I will admit I don't know for sure, but I know these aftermarket components will stand up to the abuse. I don't expect GM's OEM stuff to compete on the same level though, so I'm not disappointed at all. ZL1 is not a factory race car. Tuning several settings with the touch of a button is where there's a great point for OEM MR, and that's good enough for what I'm looking for. I will be looking to fine tune the chassis and get rid of all the deflection and flex, because in the end, the car will be happier.

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Exactly.

There are always things such as bushings that can be improved from OEM just because they’ve used cheaper materials to save cost but there won't be many aftermarket parts that can actually yield an improvement for this car beyond a HP increase or weight savings. Even increasing the HP could change the way the car handles out of a corner and have a negative effect on the launch control – the car was designed and tuned as a total refined package and that’s why I’m leaving it that way. I’m not suggesting people shouldn’t modify the ZL1, but I’d personally be very careful about choosing mods that will actually improve the car. Conventional wisdom of aftermarket performance does not necessarily apply to this car IMO…

I agree. I've said it a hundred times - this isn't just a SC'd SS with wheels and tires - it's a complete package. If you're not careful, you could upset the balance GM's spent millions on developing and nearly perfecting.
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Old 09-23-2011, 03:04 PM   #119
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Aren't they selling the #69 ZL1 on Barrett Jackson today!?!?
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Old 09-23-2011, 03:18 PM   #120
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Aren't they selling the #69 ZL1 on Barrett Jackson today!?!?

Tomorrow between 8PM and 10PM EST
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Old 09-23-2011, 03:23 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
To my understanding, CTS-V owners don't have a problem with springs and their MR suspension. HOWEVER, I do conceed that ZL1 is getting the Gen III MR, so... if the suspension can monitor 1000 times a second, I don't quite see why the dynamics would change too much, but I'm sure I'm missing something.
What spring upgrades are you talking about specifically - for the track?

I don't think there would be a major problem - like the car is going to bounce like a pogo stick or something... just that the programming in the magnetic dampers assume a certain spring rate and therefore react accordingly. All of that track running - they have tuned for the stock car and stock springs - 'making 10 changes in an hour' to quote the video. If you change the spring rate without changing the spring rate constant in the MR damper equation suddenly the equation isn’t right anymore.

So when you change to a stiffer spring, the spring will react quicker but the damper is assuming a softer spring and may not react in the ideal manner... maybe the damper needs more resistance than programmed to handle the stiffer spring. So the damper is still working but not as well as it could (maybe). I’m not suggesting you are going to ruin the car, but just saying it will be hard to improve and actually quantify the improvement.

Here is a stupid and maybe irrelevant example – but say you are great at hitting a fast ball at 90mph and can hit a home run every time but suddenly the guy throws a 80mph pitch or 100mph pitch – you can still hit the ball but it might not be a home run because your reaction and timing isn’t ideal for that speed. You can adjust a little but naturally you are better at 90mph. Or maybe dribbling a basketball that is over or under inflated might be a better example – if the PSI is too high or low you can still dribble but it isn’t as good as it was before. (sorry, stupid examples but I think they help make a point)

As for the CTS-V guys – what are they doing to improve the handling and how do they know it is better? I suppose if the lap time or handling improves you have proven the change for a specific track. Maybe the advantage of a different spring outweighs an 'ideal' damper curve. I’m not an expert on how the MR dampers work, we need someone who actually works on the things to tell you for sure. Just trying to think out loud here and use what I know about the relationship of a conventional damper and spring.

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Old 09-23-2011, 03:44 PM   #122
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Awesome video. I can't wait to get my hands on one, unfortunately its still a year or two away since I bought a 1le recently.
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:23 PM   #123
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We used to say you had the best

When you were
"balanced and blueprinted"

Now it's

"ZL1'd"



Thanks GM... and all of you engineers and designers!
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Old 09-23-2011, 05:39 PM   #124
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Tentatively...I suppose I never truly let it go...just adjusted my goal so as not to be disappointed. However, new means have presented itself to me, so I have hope once again....tentatively.
My WOOSAH is again calm and all is right in the world.

I agree with Snuffy: you deserve it, Brother. I sure hope it works out so you get your ZL-Dragonmobile.


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Old 09-23-2011, 06:00 PM   #125
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Pretty sure that's not wheelhop. Every time I've been a witness to wheelhop it has been a lot more violent, a lot more movement from the rear end. That sounds like they had the computer giving just the right hp/tq to get the optimum launch, and the repetitive chirping was the result. The "optimum" launch has the tires moving just slightly faster than the vehicle. Any more hp/tq and it would spin too much, any less and it wouldn't be up to it's complete potential. Sounds like they did a good job.
Once those times are posted from that testing I think we'll be impressed. It was the perfect time of year. Testing in winter will yield vast improvement in 1/4 mile times compared to summer. My car runs about .4 slower in the summer compared to winter. With some good air and good traction maybe some 11.80's posted by GM. That would be pretty decent.
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