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Old 09-25-2011, 02:34 PM   #18
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'69 SS/RS 396
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:50 PM   #19
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Clyde the Z28 guys fully get it.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:12 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
My friend, you are definately barking up the wrong tree this time!! Have I ever ridden in one? You bet your butt I have since I bought one new in '69 and drove it for a number of years. Can't beat the torque of a BB on the strip? I guess you haven't seen any of the D/S Z/28 record holders scaring the bejesus out of BBs and sometimes beating them. Do I need to post some of the current D/S videos yet again to let you see their under ten and a half second runs around 125mph? None of the first gen. Z/28 owners back in the day was worried about SS396 Camaros, they were not a real issue, the 325 hp and 350 hp versions were absolutely no issue, the 375 hp version made it a driver's race. The real thrust of my post is not so much what you or I think, it is what Chevrolet seemed to imply in their own ad copy, go back and read it again.
Clyde
Nope. In order to get one to run more had to be done to it than just hopping in it and running it. Sometimes beating the big blocks? That's much like when I sometimes take my v6 out and beat the SS in fifth gen form. I don't falsely believe there's more to it than some of the SS guys can't drive. I have also run in both "back in the day" and they aren't what you're claiming them to be.
And there were more ads than the one you posted from back in the day.

http://www.firstgencamaro.com/vintageads.html

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Old 09-25-2011, 07:56 PM   #21
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Clyde the Z28 guys fully get it.
Amen brother!! I should have known better than to post something that would get the non-Z/28 guys riled up! I truly just wanted to highlight that Chevy seemed to say that they thought the Z/28 was top dog......oh well, back to the salt mine to earn enough to pay for that proper Z/28 when Chevrolet decides to release another one.
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Old 09-25-2011, 09:09 PM   #22
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First Gen Camaro street racing pecking order:

1. 427 ZL1 (430 hp *)
2. 427 L72 (425 hp)
3. 396 L89 (375 hp Aluminum Heads *)
4. 396 L78 (375 hp *)
5. 396 L43 (350 hp)
6. 302 Z28 (290 hp *)
7. 396 L35 (325 hp)
8. 350 L48 (295-300 hp)
9. 327 L30 (275 hp)

* = underrated but close to what the engines would be rated today

All of the other numbers are optimistic by today's ratings.

The Z28 was the master at the curved track with a better suspension and balance than the big blocks. You could also buy the Z28 with a dual quad setup and long tubes in the trunk as I recall that would move the Z28 up the list once installed. Maybe on a par with the L78 and L89. But all the power was up top. Good driver mod needed.

Edit: Oops forgot about the Z28 "Off Road Cam" in the trunk as well.
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Old 09-26-2011, 02:48 PM   #23
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Some, like me, have memories from back in the day....others have dreams. I know what my Z/28 did back in the early 70's. It wasn't the fastest car at the strip, but it would hang pretty good with just about anything that was in non-modified condition. And that is the truth from this driver.
The biggest advantage that I found in the ole 302 was the fact that it could be driven to the track and raced...and do it consistently week after week. Most other 'factory stock' cars were in need of prep work before and in between races to keep them running consistently, or they just wouldn't perform as they should. I can still remember some 440 six pack guys just shaking their heads trying to get those carbs synched!
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:09 PM   #24
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Not a "production" car..
But it WAS produced. A 1968 Camaro Z28 Convertible....
1 of 1....
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:17 PM   #25
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I recall a Brock Yates Car and Driver piece, circa '70, about a Ford-supplied "road tester" Boss 302 Yates "evaluated"...at Lime Rock Park (IIRC)...in an authentic race!

The Boss and the Z/28, while not exactly competiton-ready from the factories, were pretty decent material to work from...

As fabled as the COPO and Big Block cars may be, I don't recall anyone being "competitive" in sanctioned racing with one of those without some very serious "engineering" and "parts thrashin'". Harrell's efforts with ZL1 #1 only gained prominence after the car become almost unrecognizable from "showroom stock appearance". Grumpy's, the same.

Off the showroom floor, the Z/28 was a damn fine ride...doing anything. No "tricks" required... Ride? No worse than the BBs. Handling? They didn't call it the Hugger for nuthin'. Cost? Less than an SS - L78, with better mpgs and, initially, lower insurance rates. And it would run with/outrun any other juice-cammed Camaro...in any orientation, at any task.

Look at all the "restified" Camaros sold this past weekend @ B-J Vegas. There's a reason more current '69 Camaros wear the Z/28 badge than any other performance "suit"...and that, folks, undeniably, is called HERITAGE.

BTW, re-read the 396-325 hp description above..."boss". Oh really?! Hyperbole at its height...
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Old 09-27-2011, 10:16 PM   #26
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Found some old stats, pretty close and notice the Z28's 1/4 MPH.

The 1967 Chevrolet Camaro Z28
Specifications
Wheelbase, inches: 108.1
Weight, lbs: 3,500
Number built: 602
Base price: $3,500
Standard Engine
Type: ohv V-8
Displacement, cid: 302
Fuel system: 1 x 4bbl.
Compression ratio: 11.0:1
Horsepower @ rpm: 290 @ 5800
Torque @ rpm: 290 @ 4200
Representative Performance
0-60 mph, sec: 6.9
1/4 mile, sec. @ mph: 14.85 @ 101


The 1967 Chevrolet Camaro SS 396
Specifications
Wheelbase, inches: 108.1
Weight, lbs: 3,720
Number built: NA
Base price: $3,046
Top Available Engine
Type: ohv V-8
Displacement, cid: 396
Fuel system: 1 x 4bbl.
Compression ratio: 11.0:1
Horsepower @ rpm: 375 @ 5600
Torque @ rpm: 415 @ 3600
Representative Performance
0-60 mph, sec: 6.5
1/4 mile, sec. @ mph: 14.5 @ 99
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:08 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Found some old stats, pretty close and notice the Z28's 1/4 MPH.

The 1967 Chevrolet Camaro Z28
Specifications
Wheelbase, inches: 108.1
Weight, lbs: 3,500
Number built: 602
Base price: $3,500
Standard Engine
Type: ohv V-8
Displacement, cid: 302
Fuel system: 1 x 4bbl.
Compression ratio: 11.0:1
Horsepower @ rpm: 290 @ 5800
Torque @ rpm: 290 @ 4200
Representative Performance
0-60 mph, sec: 6.9
1/4 mile, sec. @ mph: 14.85 @ 101


The 1967 Chevrolet Camaro SS 396
Specifications
Wheelbase, inches: 108.1
Weight, lbs: 3,720
Number built: NA
Base price: $3,046
Top Available Engine
Type: ohv V-8
Displacement, cid: 396
Fuel system: 1 x 4bbl.
Compression ratio: 11.0:1
Horsepower @ rpm: 375 @ 5600
Torque @ rpm: 415 @ 3600
Representative Performance
0-60 mph, sec: 6.5
1/4 mile, sec. @ mph: 14.5 @ 99
I have posted many times on these forums that the 396/325hp and the 396/350hp were no match for the Z/28 and the 396/375hp made it a driver's race.
Clyde
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:23 AM   #28
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AT 60 yrs. old now , back then , 396 w/ 375 heads was top dog,and if you had cam, headers, w/411 rear end. thats was camaro. they were lighter too. not 4100 lbs.
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:57 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
My friend, you are definately barking up the wrong tree this time!! Have I ever ridden in one? You bet your butt I have since I bought one new in '69 and drove it for a number of years. Can't beat the torque of a BB on the strip? I guess you haven't seen any of the D/S Z/28 record holders scaring the bejesus out of BBs and sometimes beating them. Do I need to post some of the current D/S videos yet again to let you see their under ten and a half second runs around 125mph? None of the first gen. Z/28 owners back in the day was worried about SS396 Camaros, they were not a real issue, the 325 hp and 350 hp versions were absolutely no issue, the 375 hp version made it a driver's race. The real thrust of my post is not so much what you or I think, it is what Chevrolet seemed to imply in their own ad copy, go back and read it again.
Clyde
Tell me, exactly *which* 396 Camaros are D/S legal?

My old man was a '69 Z owner back in the day, and there's a reason he switched to solid lifter BBC's...
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Old 09-28-2011, 12:23 PM   #30
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I have posted many times on these forums that the 396/325hp and the 396/350hp were no match for the Z/28 and the 396/375hp made it a driver's race.
Clyde
That's why I posted this as confirmation. Where are he naysayers now???

Another interesting point is that with all the safety standards added today's cars are not that much heavier.
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Old 09-28-2011, 12:27 PM   #31
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"History" has a way of glossing over what was FACT, "back in the day".

Fact: A COPO 9561 with L72 427 sold for less dough than an SS396-L78/375hp...but, sadly, the vast majority of dealers didn't know about 'em, or stock 'em. Less than 1000 built. All-time bargain, all-time lust factor...and I wish I hadn't passed on a $7,000 example in '85!

Fact: A COPO 9560 with ZL1 427 was made of an even rarer alloy called "unobtainium". 50% more $$$$ than a "factory" Hemi Cuda/Dart circa '68, and half as many made. 69 total. Some of those languished into the '70s, and were only sold after engine transplants. The "ultimate Camaro"...that almost no one wanted, new!

Fact: "Off the showroom floor", a '68-'69 Z/28 was highly regarded...by EVERYONE! Quickest? No. Fastest? No. Best-handling? Yes. Image? Yes. Desirability? The current number of '69 Camaro Z/28s faaaar exceeds the actual number built...which was about 20,000. Which meets/exceeds ALL factory-built '69 Big Block Camaros...

Fact: When introduced in late-'66, after the brochures were printed/shipped, the '67 Z/28 was essentially a COPO in that almost no one knew about it. 602 sold. Put into the '68 brochure, a-w-a-y went sales...not from word of mouth, but from public knowledge/acceptance. And Dealers started stockin' them. Wonders what a lil exposure will do...

Fact: The Big Block SS396, in 325 hp and 375 hp versions, were also late arrivals for the '67 Model Year...but, being available with Air and, particularly, Automatic (in 325 hp form, both) made these more "saleable" in Dealers' minds. A nod to "history" that has been adopted by GM with the coming ZL1..."lessons learned".

Fact: A Gen-1 Camaro SS396/325 hp with Automatic and Air weighed...are you ready for it?...as much as a Gen-5 1SS...3850 lbs.

"History..."
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:02 PM   #32
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Tell me, exactly *which* 396 Camaros are D/S legal?

My old man was a '69 Z owner back in the day, and there's a reason he switched to solid lifter BBC's...
And just exactly where did I say that any 396 Camaros were D/S legal (I personally don't know if any are or not)? You are taking two different statements and merging them together. Can I show you a D/S Camario racing a 396 Camaro at the strip? Yep, don't even have to be in the same class for that to happen. You can find an example or two on YouTube.
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:05 PM   #33
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Tell me, exactly *which* 396 Camaros are D/S legal?

My old man was a '69 Z owner back in the day, and there's a reason he switched to solid lifter BBC's...
And here's an example for you:


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Old 09-28-2011, 01:09 PM   #34
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"We'll start with our strongest. Z/28 Camaro." That tells me that Chevrolet considered the Z/28 to be the top dog, that's good enough for me!
Clyde
Good enough for me as well!
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