Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
PFYC
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons

Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-02-2011, 09:48 AM   #1
bannonm

 
bannonm's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6 VR
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,314
Expected power loss when running low-power map

Does anyone know how much power you lose if the engine switches to the lower performing map? I'm interested in numbers for a manual trans. Wondering how significant it is.
bannonm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2011, 08:56 PM   #2
Juiced1
JUICED MOTORSPORTS

 
Juiced1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 2SS CAMARO 45th
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: IL
Posts: 10,416
It would be pretty significant. Can't say I've every seen dyno numbers on it but its a pretty big number. It retards your timing quite a bit. I would guess 50-100 hp.....so keep 93 in the tank!
__________________
Get more Power per Dollar!!!! We carry all the hot new products for your 5th gen! CAI, Roto-Fab, Solo, Corsa, MBRP, ARH, Stainless Works, MRT, SLP, Procharger, Whipple, BMR, Diablosport, Superchips, Street Scene, VFN Fiberglass and much more. Contact us for your Camaro5 discount today!
Call us at 224-63-JUICE - 224-400-5793
Juiced1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2011, 09:06 PM   #3
NME
F(r)iend
 
NME's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 G8GT PBM
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: CT
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced1 View Post
It would be pretty significant. Can't say I've every seen dyno numbers on it but its a pretty big number. It retards your timing quite a bit. I would guess 50-100 hp.....so keep 93 in the tank!
I appreciate your curiosity, but why are you asking this question? Highest HP with 87 octane? I'd give you props if you hit 300whp.
__________________
2008 G8GT Panther Black Metallic
Custom 4" Intake, AEM DryFlow Filter
Custom HSRK, Custom "solo" Axle-back
MonteSS DiabloSport 93 Octane Tune
Red Painted Calipers, Ceramic Pads
Cross drilled / slotted rotors, 20% tint
NME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2011, 09:20 PM   #4
bannonm

 
bannonm's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6 VR
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by NME View Post
I appreciate your curiosity, but why are you asking this question? Highest HP with 87 octane? I'd give you props if you hit 300whp.
I'm curious because I had a dyno pull the other day and pulled only 366 RWHP. Granted I only have a CAI Inc intake and Borla cat backs. I know cat back won't do anything, but I keep hearing about Jannetty's testing of CAIs and how great CAI was. Bill from CAI "guaranteed" I would be a 15 HP increase. I figure the best I got was 4 HP. My club was doing a dyno day and another guy with just a Rotofab and Solo cats pulled 20 more than me. Solo advertises gains of 20 HP, so I figure his CAI gain was probably close to mine.

So the point of this was to ascertain if I had bad gas that flipped to the low-powered map, or if this cai stuff is all BS. I buy Marathon 93 octane consistently. I have people insist they get double digit gains from CAIs. When I ask for before and after dyno sheets all I get is a reference back to Jannetty's CAI testing.

I just skeptical that there's a HP gain as large as these vendors claim. I do agree my car feels more responsive than with the stock intake, so it's not like it's a total bust.

So sounds like it's not a map issue since performance would be way less than what I am getting.
bannonm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2011, 09:29 PM   #5
Padre
Only drives on Sundays
 
Padre's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 2SS/RS, Black/Inferno, L99 A6
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Dalton, GA
Posts: 2,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by bannonm View Post
So sounds like it's not a map issue since performance would be way less than what I am getting.
I'd agree. I'm guessing heat soak on the dyno, pulling in hot engine air. If you were able to log timing, you'd see it. That or knock reduction.

Padre
__________________

The "Heretic": '11 2SS/RS L99 A6 Black/Inferno. Build Journal, Videos
D1SC GT9 JBA-LT = 720/680 | 10.330 @ 133.61, 1.546 sixty... Camaro King at ECS V, Darlington.
Padre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 09:47 AM   #6
fldrummer
"Black Ace"
 
fldrummer's Avatar
 
Drives: 2SS/RS black/black
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,721
Quote:
Originally Posted by bannonm View Post
I'm curious because I had a dyno pull the other day and pulled only 366 RWHP. Granted I only have a CAI Inc intake and Borla cat backs. I know cat back won't do anything, but I keep hearing about Jannetty's testing of CAIs and how great CAI was. Bill from CAI "guaranteed" I would be a 15 HP increase. I figure the best I got was 4 HP. My club was doing a dyno day and another guy with just a Rotofab and Solo cats pulled 20 more than me. Solo advertises gains of 20 HP, so I figure his CAI gain was probably close to mine.

So the point of this was to ascertain if I had bad gas that flipped to the low-powered map, or if this cai stuff is all BS. I buy Marathon 93 octane consistently. I have people insist they get double digit gains from CAIs. When I ask for before and after dyno sheets all I get is a reference back to Jannetty's CAI testing.

I just skeptical that there's a HP gain as large as these vendors claim. I do agree my car feels more responsive than with the stock intake, so it's not like it's a total bust.

So sounds like it's not a map issue since performance would be way less than what I am getting.
Did you do a stock baseline pull on the dyno to see what your actual gains were? Also, what type of dyno was it? Mustang dynos typically read lower than dynojets, some as much as 15% lower, so the numbers can vary greatly.
__________________
2010 2SS/RS M6 "Black Ace" - Delivered 6/4/2009
Mods: Forged LS3 (9.8:1 CR), Maggie TVS 2300 SC with OD rear pulley, Custom Comp cam (223/244, .610/.596, 114 LSA), Monster LT1-SC twin-disk clutch, Dynotech 1-piece driveshaft, CAI Inc. intake w/ ADM scoop, XS Power full exhaust (1 7/8" LT headers with 3" off-road pipes), VMAX CNC-ported TB, LSR adjustable sway bars, LPE rear end-links, BMR 1" drop, BMR polyurethane bushings; UMI trailing arms & toe rods. 572 rwhp/548 rwtq (Mustang Dyno, maxed-out injectors).
fldrummer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 10:07 AM   #7
Juiced1
JUICED MOTORSPORTS

 
Juiced1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 2SS CAMARO 45th
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: IL
Posts: 10,416
Quote:
Originally Posted by bannonm View Post
I'm curious because I had a dyno pull the other day and pulled only 366 RWHP. Granted I only have a CAI Inc intake and Borla cat backs. I know cat back won't do anything, but I keep hearing about Jannetty's testing of CAIs and how great CAI was. Bill from CAI "guaranteed" I would be a 15 HP increase. I figure the best I got was 4 HP. My club was doing a dyno day and another guy with just a Rotofab and Solo cats pulled 20 more than me. Solo advertises gains of 20 HP, so I figure his CAI gain was probably close to mine.

So the point of this was to ascertain if I had bad gas that flipped to the low-powered map, or if this cai stuff is all BS. I buy Marathon 93 octane consistently. I have people insist they get double digit gains from CAIs. When I ask for before and after dyno sheets all I get is a reference back to Jannetty's CAI testing.


I just skeptical that there's a HP gain as large as these vendors claim. I do agree my car feels more responsive than with the stock intake, so it's not like it's a total bust.

So sounds like it's not a map issue since performance would be way less than what I am getting.
Your numbers sound about right. CAI intakes are dyno proven power. You'll get 10-15 rwhp with a CAI intake. For an intake thats great but 15 horsepower isn't exactly going to put you in the 9s. If you want some bigger power gains (real seat of the pants power) then you need to look past bolt ons. Get some long tube headers and a cam.

Also, look up the MAF problems. Some SS cars have a weak MAF from the factory and they don't respond to intakes as well. Do a search on weak MAF on the board.
__________________
Get more Power per Dollar!!!! We carry all the hot new products for your 5th gen! CAI, Roto-Fab, Solo, Corsa, MBRP, ARH, Stainless Works, MRT, SLP, Procharger, Whipple, BMR, Diablosport, Superchips, Street Scene, VFN Fiberglass and much more. Contact us for your Camaro5 discount today!
Call us at 224-63-JUICE - 224-400-5793
Juiced1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 10:20 AM   #8
bannonm

 
bannonm's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6 VR
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,314
Thanks for the info. My original question about the fuel map was answered.
bannonm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 10:42 AM   #9
cab2g
love. my. car.
 
cab2g's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by bannonm View Post
Thanks for the info. My original question about the fuel map was answered.
Hey, what are you saying about my pull then? I only got 19 HP more than you and I had HF Cats and a CAI. I really think it was all about the dyno that day. Humidity was pretty high that day and I don't think that helped any. Wasn't it Bubbles that got about 397 and she had headers and a tune? That's only 12 more than me. I really really don't think it was your car's fuel map.
__________________
cab2g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 11:05 AM   #10
bannonm

 
bannonm's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6 VR
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by cab2g View Post
Hey, what are you saying about my pull then? I only got 19 HP more than you and I had HF Cats and a CAI. I really think it was all about the dyno that day. Humidity was pretty high that day and I don't think that helped any. Wasn't it Bubbles that got about 397 and she had headers and a tune? That's only 12 more than me. I really really don't think it was your car's fuel map.
You had a pretty good pull I thought. Amazing how well cats improve the picture. As for Bubbles, I thought she said someone told her that that she would have a tough time breaking 400 anyway.

I asked about the fuel map because I buy from a local fuel supplier who happens to have gas pumps for the public. He's the only one that sells 93 octane so always wonder how much he really sells of it to keep the stock fresh. I've had problems with old gas on my Harley when traveling before.

Anyway, I was curious about the performance hit on lower octane. I got my answer. So if I encounter lower octane or bad gas, sounds like it would be very apparent.
bannonm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 11:40 AM   #11
JANNETTYRACING
PRESIDENT CALIBRATOR JRE

 
JANNETTYRACING's Avatar
 
Drives: YELLOW 2013 ZL1 AUTO
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: ON THE DYNO WATERBURY CT.
Posts: 9,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by bannonm View Post
I'm curious because I had a dyno pull the other day and pulled only 366 RWHP. Granted I only have a CAI Inc intake and Borla cat backs. I know cat back won't do anything, but I keep hearing about Jannetty's testing of CAIs and how great CAI was. Bill from CAI "guaranteed" I would be a 15 HP increase. I figure the best I got was 4 HP. My club was doing a dyno day and another guy with just a Rotofab and Solo cats pulled 20 more than me. Solo advertises gains of 20 HP, so I figure his CAI gain was probably close to mine.

So the point of this was to ascertain if I had bad gas that flipped to the low-powered map, or if this cai stuff is all BS. I buy Marathon 93 octane consistently. I have people insist they get double digit gains from CAIs. When I ask for before and after dyno sheets all I get is a reference back to Jannetty's CAI testing.

I just skeptical that there's a HP gain as large as these vendors claim. I do agree my car feels more responsive than with the stock intake, so it's not like it's a total bust.

So sounds like it's not a map issue since performance would be way less than what I am getting.
The reason we did the testing was to put to REST all the HYPE of 25-50 RWHP Gains from Cold air kits

I run a CAI on the Dyno several times a week and they always repeat 13-15 RWHP on a Stock CAR.

Without a baseline on the same day on the same dyno it is all speculation.

You also have to remember you can't Stack HP gains with multiple Mods.

Ted.
__________________
Technical information, Parts Sales, Professional Installation, and Custom Dyno Tuning.
Please vist our web sites for all your performance needs!
Ted Jannetty
Jannetty Racing Ent Inc.
2984 East Main St.
Waterbury Ct. 06705
203-753-7223
tedj@jannettyracing.com
www.jannettyracing.com
www.turboaddictionparts.com
Performance Parts
JANNETTYRACING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 01:03 PM   #12
bannonm

 
bannonm's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6 VR
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Without a baseline on the same day on the same dyno it is all speculation.

You also have to remember you can't Stack HP gains with multiple Mods.

Ted.
I understand and agree, have to compare apples to apples.

So stacking HP gains, so don't expect 15 HP from your CAI and 20 HP from cats to get 35 HP? Maybe a bad example, but interesting you say that.
bannonm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 03:31 PM   #13
JANNETTYRACING
PRESIDENT CALIBRATOR JRE

 
JANNETTYRACING's Avatar
 
Drives: YELLOW 2013 ZL1 AUTO
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: ON THE DYNO WATERBURY CT.
Posts: 9,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by bannonm View Post
I understand and agree, have to compare apples to apples.

So stacking HP gains, so don't expect 15 HP from your CAI and 20 HP from cats to get 35 HP? Maybe a bad example, but interesting you say that.
12 from the cats and 10 from the cai together is what I would expect.
__________________
Technical information, Parts Sales, Professional Installation, and Custom Dyno Tuning.
Please vist our web sites for all your performance needs!
Ted Jannetty
Jannetty Racing Ent Inc.
2984 East Main St.
Waterbury Ct. 06705
203-753-7223
tedj@jannettyracing.com
www.jannettyracing.com
www.turboaddictionparts.com
Performance Parts
JANNETTYRACING is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anybody Spray'n their SS yet - nitrous ? WeeZee Forced Induction - V8 37 12-29-2012 09:56 PM
L99 Power loss JKEP44 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 13 04-26-2011 01:08 PM
Nitrous System ?????s PoleCat2SSRS2010 Forced Induction - V8 29 12-08-2010 05:55 PM
Well sunroof question answered (PIC) Black5thgen 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 152 08-29-2009 10:23 PM
Turbocharge your way to efficiency.....and power! Mr. Wyndham Forced Induction - V8 20 07-06-2008 12:46 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.