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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 10-03-2011, 03:12 PM   #26
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:13 PM   #27
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:21 PM   #28
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"Z/28" becomes ZL1...

What happened between the North American International Auto Show (NAIAS) and the Chicago Auto Show (ZL1 Announcement)?

Something called a BOSS appeared...

Suddenly, a GT 500 competitor (blown V8, $50K+) had to be called "something else", because there was a serious effort by "those guys" at low-mid $40s that the MR'd LSA'd Camaro could not compete with...price-wise OR "concept"-wise...

That leaves room for the rightful heir to the hallowed Z/28 badge...price-wise AND "concept"-wise...with a healthy serving of humble pie, performance-wise...

Wise?

Stay tuned...

"Hot" LS3 with MR? Been proposed. Trouble is, no "hot" LS3 is certified/validated for Production...and remember, power-to-weight, a 3900 lb. MR'd Camaro will require at least 480 hp to outpower the BOSS... LS7? 500+...
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:49 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
"Z/28" becomes ZL1...

What happened between the North American International Auto Show (NAIAS) and the Chicago Auto Show (ZL1 Announcement)?

Something called a BOSS appeared...

Suddenly, a GT 500 competitor (blown V8, $50K+) had to be called "something else", because there was a serious effort by "those guys" at low-mid $40s that the MR'd LSA'd Camaro could not compete with...price-wise OR "concept"-wise...

That leaves room for the rightful heir to the hallowed Z/28 badge...price-wise AND "concept"-wise...with a healthy serving of humble pie, performance-wise...

Wise?

Stay tuned...

"Hot" LS3 with MR? Been proposed. Trouble is, no "hot" LS3 is certified/validated for Production...and remember, power-to-weight, a 3900 lb. MR'd Camaro will require at least 480 hp to outpower the BOSS... LS7? 500+...

The LS7 does seem like the most logical choice. The factory certification and tooling is already there. Although I read somewhere that the LS7 is going to be discontinued? I don't have a source for this, but I remember reading it on a C5 thread somewhere.
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Old 10-03-2011, 04:10 PM   #30
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One of the problems of having soooo many threads touching on soooo many aspects of possible Z/28 development has to do with debunking certain urban legends...

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...149090&page=34 Post #837

If they opened the facility with 10-12,000 "capacity", and are now building less than 5,000:

A) Capacity exists

TWO) If "capacity" exists, and "demand" exists, then "supply" should continue to be forthcoming...

Will there be an LS7 in a C-7 Vette?
Not likely.
Does there have to be for LS7 production to continue?
Not necessarily...
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Old 10-03-2011, 06:33 PM   #31
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I heard they will not be building the LS7 for the Gen17 Camaro is it true???
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:19 AM   #32
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We won't hear anything about a Z28 from GM before the ZL1 hits the streets. We might not hear anything, ever. But we definately won't hear anything before then.

Could they do a 5th Gen Z28? Sure. They have most of the parts needed to do it sitting around. A lot of the engineering challenges have been solved with the ZL1. Between these two, a lot of the cost to do it has already been covered. So a short run at the end of the 5th gen life cycle is feasible, at least from my perspective. Bean counters at GM may see things differently, but the potential is there.


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I heard they will not be building the LS7 for the Gen17 Camaro is it true???
Well, the LS7 as we know it won't be around then. The Gen17 Camaro won't be here for probably at least 50 years. Maybe more than 100. However, it could have an engine designated 'LS7' because GM frequently recycles old engine names. Look up the history on the LS6, for example.

Or was Gen17 some sort of typo?
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:58 AM   #33
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:42 AM   #34
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We won't hear anything about a Z28 from GM before the ZL1 hits the streets. We might not hear anything, ever. But we definately won't hear anything before then.

Could they do a 5th Gen Z28? Sure. They have most of the parts needed to do it sitting around. A lot of the engineering challenges have been solved with the ZL1. Between these two, a lot of the cost to do it has already been covered. So a short run at the end of the 5th gen life cycle is feasible, at least from my perspective. Bean counters at GM may see things differently, but the potential is there.



Well, the LS7 as we know it won't be around then. The Gen17 Camaro won't be here for probably at least 50 years. Maybe more than 100. However, it could have an engine designated 'LS7' because GM frequently recycles old engine names. Look up the history on the LS6, for example.

Or was Gen17 some sort of typo?
Oh yeah, for sure, they aren't going to make any announcements that could potentially affect sales of the forthcoming ZL-1. I guess we'll just have to see what GM brings to SEMA this year?

I'm pretty sure he was just making a sarcastic jab there. lol. All in good fun.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:06 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
One of the problems of having soooo many threads touching on soooo many aspects of possible Z/28 development has to do with debunking certain urban legends...

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...149090&page=34 Post #837

If they opened the facility with 10-12,000 "capacity", and are now building less than 5,000:

A) Capacity exists

TWO) If "capacity" exists, and "demand" exists, then "supply" should continue to be forthcoming...

Will there be an LS7 in a C-7 Vette?
Not likely.
Does there have to be for LS7 production to continue?
Not necessarily...
my question is; why keep an engine that is going to be behind everything else in the inventory? by the time a possible Z28 hits the streets. especially if we are looking at selling less than 30 thousand or so cars.

I'm like your signature a broken record.
The time line for a DI engine looks good, to me. Maybe for all we know the next Z06 engine will have DI and built at the same facility as the old LS7. The 2014 vette will be hitting the streets about the same time a possible z28.

I don't expect an announcement until about mid way through 2012. and more then likely we'll have to wait until R&D is completed on test mules before 2013 starts.

It is possible they designed the z28 and developed it along with the zl1, but lets be honest. How many different types of cars can one team focus on. Especially specific market type cars like these. (IE ZL1 Hi performance with amazing tech goodies and Z28 HI performance road racer with little tech like MR). You're asking a lot from a Design team member. What would both these cars look like? would they be half arsed? meaning you could have gotten a lot more performance if focused on one car at a time. I'm sorry I don't think GM will be half doing anything like this any time soon.


monstertodd- GM has never debuted a production car at sema. just all the goodies you can get for them. one of the many reasons I think the ls7 will not make it into a z28.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:29 AM   #36
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Sorry being sarcastic.

On a more serious note, what changes are made for DI, heads...?
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Old 10-04-2011, 11:42 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing View Post
my question is; why keep an engine that is going to be behind everything else in the inventory? by the time a possible Z28 hits the streets. especially if we are looking at selling less than 30 thousand or so cars.

I'm like your signature a broken record.
The time line for a DI engine looks good, to me. Maybe for all we know the next Z06 engine will have DI and built at the same facility as the old LS7. The 2014 vette will be hitting the streets about the same time a possible z28.

I don't expect an announcement until about mid way through 2012. and more then likely we'll have to wait until R&D is completed on test mules before 2013 starts.

It is possible they designed the z28 and developed it along with the zl1, but lets be honest. How many different types of cars can one team focus on. Especially specific market type cars like these. (IE ZL1 Hi performance with amazing tech goodies and Z28 HI performance road racer with little tech like MR). You're asking a lot from a Design team member. What would both these cars look like? would they be half arsed? meaning you could have gotten a lot more performance if focused on one car at a time. I'm sorry I don't think GM will be half doing anything like this any time soon.


monstertodd- GM has never debuted a production car at sema. just all the goodies you can get for them. one of the many reasons I think the ls7 will not make it into a z28.
If there is one thing that GM is good at, its using the parts bin to make great cars.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:21 PM   #38
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I doubt GM wants to hatch all their eggs at once. SS, ZL1 & Z28 soon. GM hears us and they are filing the ideas away and working on it I'm sure. It may not even come out until the next redesign. I'm just speculating.
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Old 10-04-2011, 05:40 PM   #39
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who says gm isnt doing anything about a z28? just because you havent heard anything doesnt mean nothing is being done. this is the ZL1's time to shine. the z28 will come in time. why say anything about the z28 now, when the damn ZL1 hasnt even come out yet? and do i think it will come in a 5th gen? i think it may as the last year for the 5th gen. and im hoping with a 7.0. but if it doesnt come as a 5thgen, it for sure will come as a 6th gen with a 5.5DI hopefully.
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:29 PM   #40
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yeah...GM brought the Camaro back with the fifth generation, including the ZL-1. So im pretty sure that means the z/28 is a given, just a matter of time. Maybe the hype over the ZL-1 is to get peoples' attention of the Camaro back and then they'll drop the z/28 on the market...idk though just my thoughts.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:15 PM   #41
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Quote:
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If there is one thing that GM is good at, its using the parts bin to make great cars.
I'm not saying that isn't possible. but to be testing two separate cars meant for two separate types of people at the same time can be bringing the quality down somewhere. the parts bin has the parts no doubt. just throw the parts on the car and get the testing done, at different times. we want the best car possible. not a BA ZL1 and a half done z28.

you can throw an LS7 in the camaro but to focus on the best weight distro, brakes, suspension setup, exhaust note, possible small features that go along way. . .etc takes focus and time. if developing both cars that the same time one car will receive more focus then the other. There is no point for the team to have taken a z28 test mule to the ring if they don't have a good setup to begin with to fine tune.

For the team to focus on two cars at once that require a lot of fine tuning is asking them to work 12+hr days to satisfy a small few.

on top of this it won't be like them to debut the ZL1 and then introduce a z28 the same year. That would likely eat into the sales of the ZL1. There are many that want a Z28 but can't wait. Those people will/have either bought an SS already and can wait for the Z28 to be done right, or they have put down a down payment on a ZL1. IF GM were to release the Z28 6 months after the ZL1 started shipping the people that haven't received their ZL1 will either back out or wait. GM would then be losing money until the Z28 debut. I would honestly expect the first snippet of real info about halfway through next year. and it will be some GM exec talking or a picture of a camaro testing on the ring with a different hood/body kit.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:09 PM   #42
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yeah...GM brought the Camaro back with the fifth generation, including the ZL-1. So im pretty sure that means the z/28 is a given, just a matter of time. Maybe the hype over the ZL-1 is to get peoples' attention of the Camaro back and then they'll drop the z/28 on the market...idk though just my thoughts.
That makes sense ... when all goes quiet ... nothin' up my sleeve ... Presto! <just had this thought of Bullwinkle Moose pulling a Z/28 out of a hat>
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:39 PM   #43
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Still thinking the so called "Track" version ZL1 is the Z28. Take a CLOSE look and you'll see why I believe that.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:35 AM   #44
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Still thinking the so called "Track" version ZL1 is the Z28. Take a CLOSE look and you'll see why I believe that.
Completely agree with you on this one. Hopefully they price it between 40-50k and don't release it as a limited edition like the boss 302


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Old 10-05-2011, 05:05 AM   #45
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:19 AM   #46
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If you look at my tagg you know where I live.
A member of my family drove that yellow ZL1 in the recent front page post last week.
He said his legs were shaking when he got out and he drives the "normal" camaros everyday.

So - Smaller batch of ZL1's now
Huge Batch of z28's later
The Z's will fill the gap between "SS" and "Zl1"
and sell they will...
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:32 AM   #47
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If you look at my tagg you know where I live.
A member of my family drove that yellow ZL1 in the recent front page post last week.
He said his legs were shaking when he got out and he drives the "normal" camaros everyday.

So - Smaller batch of ZL1's now
Huge Batch of z28's later
The Z's will fill the gap between "SS" and "Zl1"
and sell they will...
I will buy one!
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:51 AM   #48
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Completely agree with you on this one. Hopefully they price it between 40-50k and don't release it as a limited edition like the boss 302


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It's funny how it was immediately labeled "Track" edition. Also where did the side aero go?, let alone the hood within a hood.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:28 PM   #49
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So, I'm feeling a bit disheartened that there has been no news whatsoever from GM regarding the Z/28.

I feel like the Z/28 is such a storied nameplate in GM history, and I just can't understand why GM is pretty much "ignoring" it.

Should I give up any hope that there will ever be a Z/28 5th gen?

Is the ZL-1 "it"?

The ZL-1 seems like it should be the top dog, and the Z/28 should be in the middle between the ZL-1 and the SS.

If there was ever going to be a Z/28, why wouldn't they release that one first, and save the ZL-1 for last? Is it more important for GM to have a GT500 fighter, vice a Boss 302 fighter? (seems like that's where the Z/28 should fit in)

To GM: I get it, there are only a certain amount of resources to allocate the development of so many models. I understand the historical significance of the ZL-1 nameplate. However, I think you are missing the mark on this one. IMHO, the Z/28 name means so much more, to a much wider demographic of customer, than the ZL-1 will. Many people know about the original ZL-1, and they know of the significance of it, but MOST people do not.

Even non car enthusiasts have heard of the Z/28 and can tell you what it is. You can't say the same thing about the ZL-1.

I will close with this: GM, thank you for giving us the 5th gen Camaro. It's a magnificent piece of automotive art. Thank you for developing the ZL-1 and bringing it to market, I think it will also be a grand slam home run to a certain customer demographic. But for me, and I'm sure many others, the lack of a Z/28 in the product lineup is an extremely big ugly sore spot.

Rant over, please return to your regularly scheduled thread.
Well said
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:02 PM   #50
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I'm guessing 2014 Model Year. There is suppose to be a refresh at that time for the 5th gen camaro. Not to mention the next mustang will be around the corner then too.
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