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Old 10-11-2011, 03:58 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
...which supports a rant of mine since the Gen-5 Camaro arrived...

C5 = MY 1997 to 2004 CORVETTES (EIGHT Model Years, btw...)

Gen-5 Camaros = MY 2010-and-up CAMAROS...likely to be with us through MY '15...

1993 to 2002 Camaros are NOT referred to as C4s are they?! But 1984-1996 Vettes ARE...
Then add in the confusion of Gen4 and Gen5 SBC!
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:35 PM   #121
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Well, I think we're all starting to agree somewhat that the newer 5.5 DI is going to find it's way into a Camaro. That the Z28 should be lighter in the front end with no superchargers or turbos. That the Gen6 is probably going to happen in the 2016MY (maybe 2015MY) because of the new 2015 Mustang.

GM has pitted the SS against the Z28 (and vice versa) before. It'll depend on the pricing of the Z28, but one of the goals is probably to get current SS owners wanting to trade up to the Z28. I don't think anyone believes the Z28 will be cheaper than the SS.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:47 PM   #122
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No one ever suggested/expected a ZEE to be less than an SS in any manner...including price...

Look at the BOSS...there's your target...which happens to be in a location that is more (in every way) than an SS, and less than a ZL1 in price and "halo"...
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:55 PM   #123
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Well, I think we're all starting to agree somewhat that the newer 5.5 DI is going to find it's way into a Camaro. That the Z28 should be lighter in the front end with no superchargers or turbos. That the Gen6 is probably going to happen in the 2016MY (maybe 2015MY) because of the new 2015 Mustang.

GM has pitted the SS against the Z28 (and vice versa) before. It'll depend on the pricing of the Z28, but one of the goals is probably to get current SS owners wanting to trade up to the Z28. I don't think anyone believes the Z28 will be cheaper than the SS.
Uhhhh no.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:04 PM   #124
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O' hell no!!
We're getting the ZL1 crowd now.
My Z28 brother I do believe you are correct. The as of yet unannounced price of the ZL1 has scared them to our Z28 threads as predicted. That being said the more the better. Enough screams heard by GM for the Z28 can only help.
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Old 10-12-2011, 04:08 AM   #125
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What's the only advantage of a Gen-5 SBC @ 475 hp, over a Gen-4 LS7 SBC @ 505? Fuel economy...which won't be important until CAFE '16, and the then-new Gen-6 Camaro's birthing date...with its "all-new" Gen-5 SBC...
speaking from a strick mod potential. . .the Gen 5 motor will be able to handle more boost/funny gas and probably will take better to mods. start with the best base possible.

ls7 with a lot of boost = boom. 0r a really high shot of funny gas. . . quite frankly the thin walls on the ls7 scare me to never mod it beyond a cam and LT headers.

with a 6.2L DI I will start out with more power then an LS7 and quit possibly be able to end with more power with the same type of mods.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 10-12-2011, 09:54 AM   #126
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A 475 hp Gen-5 "LT1" SBC making more power than a 505 hp LS7?! Huh?

Boosting an LS7: For those so inclined, Edelbrock seems to be doing a fine job with their E-Force kit, and "word on the street" is good among the Vette-set. Knowing your limits, and staying within them, is a good thing...

But "boost" is not something the diehard ZEE-fan seems to be seeking...give us a well-tuned n/a revver!...or we'd be all over the ZL1 ...
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Old 10-12-2011, 09:58 AM   #127
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Yes, we offer a 500+ hp LT1 as well.. good heads and 408 cubic inches will do that...

The Ls7 is not a good choice for an engine due to the material of the sleeves... they are prone to cracking.. other than that it would be a great choice but when you can lose a cylinder simply due to detonation.. its a drawback
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:10 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
A 475 hp Gen-5 "LT1" SBC making more power than a 505 hp LS7?! Huh?

Boosting an LS7: For those so inclined, Edelbrock seems to be doing a fine job with their E-Force kit, and "word on the street" is good among the Vette-set. Knowing your limits, and staying within them, is a good thing...

But "boost" is not something the diehard ZEE-fan seems to be seeking...give us a well-tuned n/a revver!...or we'd be all over the ZL1 ...
a 5.5L making 475, but why are we stuck on the base vette engine? thought I made it clear in previous posts that it should still be the z06 equivalent. meaning if the z06 gets a 6.2 (est. 600hp) then that's what the Z28 should get. maybe "detuned" 570hp.

yes about edelbrock. . .but how much boost are they pushing? 5-8 psi? if I were to ever put FI on I wouldn't push boost so little. go big or go home. still not a fan of the thin walls on the ls7 and never will be. 6.2 or less with many options to bore out or FI.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:42 AM   #129
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Yes, we offer a 500+ hp LT1 as well..
The "LT1" I mention is the supposed GM designation for the next-Gen SBC, NOT to be confused (which it no doubt is/will be...) with the '92-'97 versions previously enjoyed by Y-F-B-bodies...

(BTW, we built a Vortech-'charged 383 LT1 with AFR heads that made 500rwhp...in a pump-gas street-driven '95 Formula...in 1996)

As to boost (again?!) on LS7s, I DID state, "Knowing your limits, and staying within them, is a good thing..."

This expectation of an n/a DI 6.2 making "estimated 600 hp": In most other engine application updates, DI optimistically adds 10-20% in OEM-warranted circumstances, while improving mpg and emissions. With 436 hp, the Vette's rating for an LS3 with dual-mode exhaust, 20% will get you to about 525...10% will get you to 480...a very l-o-n-g way from 600, without forced induction...
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:43 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
The "LT1" I mention is the supposed GM designation for the next-Gen SBC, NOT to be confused (which it no doubt is/will be...) with the '92-'97 versions previously enjoyed by Y-F-B-bodies...

(BTW, we built a Vortech-'charged 383 LT1 with AFR heads that made 500rwhp...in a pump-gas street-driven '95 Formula...in 1996)

As to boost (again?!) on LS7s, I DID state, "Knowing your limits, and staying within them, is a good thing..."

This expectation of an n/a DI 6.2 making "estimated 600 hp": In most other engine application updates, DI optimistically adds 10-20% in OEM-warranted circumstances, while improving mpg and emissions. With 436 hp, the Vette's rating for an LS3 with dual-mode exhaust, 20% will get you to about 525...10% will get you to 480...a very l-o-n-g way from 600, without forced induction...
I'm sorry my math was off. 7.0 is closer to 580 for 15% (LLT vs LY7). with a 6.2 would be 501. which both had VVT on select models. VVT will net a little more increase.

I would still take a 6.2 pushing 501+ hp over the ls7. would net better mileage (better for racing more laps) and take kinder to mods. the argument for the ls7 is getting weaker since a vette mule is running around with presumably the Gen 5 v8 but C6 body on a C7 frame.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:26 AM   #131
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The problem with DI, and the attendant development (increased c.r. etc.) is the final results are NOT mod-friendly... Witness the LLT. STILL no FI aftermarket apps (save STS) in wide usage because the BoschBox in NOT readily mod-able. Yes, a piggyback tune is a possibility, but the LLT is NOT nearly as mod-friendly as the LS...because a deviance too far in tuning in any direction, with high static compression, results in expen$ive paperweights...

Do NOT expect easy modding of the coming Gen-5 SBC...think LLT "locked-box"...
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:51 AM   #132
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(BTW, we built a Vortech-'charged 383 LT1 with AFR heads that made 500rwhp...in a pump-gas street-driven '95 Formula...in 1996)
Ours is n/a on 91 octane but yeah has nothing to do with this..LOL
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:37 AM   #133
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The problem with DI, and the attendant development (increased c.r. etc.) is the final results are NOT mod-friendly... Witness the LLT. STILL no FI aftermarket apps (save STS) in wide usage because the BoschBox in NOT readily mod-able. Yes, a piggyback tune is a possibility, but the LLT is NOT nearly as mod-friendly as the LS...because a deviance too far in tuning in any direction, with high static compression, results in expen$ive paperweights...

Do NOT expect easy modding of the coming Gen-5 SBC...think LLT "locked-box"...


there will always be a learning curve, and this 2 shall pass. I Expect simple modding to take well to it. LT headers, a cam etc. and eventually some good uncanned tunes.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:03 AM   #134
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there will always be a learning curve, and this 2 shall pass. I Expect simple modding to take well to it. LT headers, a cam etc. and eventually some good uncanned tunes.
The LLT has been around in the CTS longer than the Camaro...about 4-years worth...and STILL no one has properly broken into the BoschBox.

IF that sort of "sealed" ECM technology is used on the next-Gen SBC, the plethora of mods now happening to the LS may NOT arrive, without GM sanction.
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:07 PM   #135
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The LLT has been around in the CTS longer than the Camaro...about 4-years worth...and STILL no one has properly broken into the BoschBox.

IF that sort of "sealed" ECM technology is used on the next-Gen SBC, the plethora of mods now happening to the LS may NOT arrive, without GM sanction.
all we need is a good hacker to take notice, or a replacement ECM to arrive. the LLT probably (speculating) isn't as focused on as a more main stream performance engine would be. I am not worried about such a thing for the next gen vette will push it into the lime light for modifying. More aftermarket tuners will be focused on modifying a v-8 vette vs a v-6 cts/camaro.


just a heads up I will be headed back state side soon. So all this talk about a Gen V motor being a better choice from me will probably end soon enough. meaning you will win the argument by default. I have little time to get on forums when I have more important things to be doing; like working ,riding my bike, selling a house and family. but I will still hold the same belief and feeling about a Gen V v8 in a z28. Timing couldn't be so close. if the ZL1 was out now and we started seeing z28 test mules I would consed to your thought process, but timing seems to be more on my side right now. at least how I view it. once my credit card debt is paid and truck paid off I will then have funds to purchase a Z28 (if already released or about to be released). My love for this car is too much to pass it up even with the thin walled ls7. I know GM will make it a screamer on the track, and that's all I really want.

until then I enjoy talking all things Z and arguing points with limited knowledge of things to come.
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:51 PM   #136
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Im not really sure why everyone is hating on the ls7 saying that it isnt durable. The ls7 is a very durable engine with people tracking the ls7 overy week with out any problems. The most known problem , at least on the vette forums, are a few of them dropping valves. And to have a handful of motors have an issue out of thousands is pretty decent. The only reason we really hear about it is because its a 70k car. People have been throwing FI on the ls7 for years with out issues. As long as you stay with in its means you shouldnt have an issue just like any other motor out there. Its just like you dont go throwing 12psi into a stock lt1 and expect it to last forever running it at the track every night. Dont skimp on the tune and have someone that knows what there doing on an ls7. And heritage wise I believe the LS7 would foot the bill as a high reving high horsepower v8 just like the old DZ motor
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