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Old 10-13-2011, 02:08 PM   #137
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reason being is that if you have an issue and get some detonation.. it could cost you the block where an other engine would not crack a sleeve over it.. its a good engine but the sleeve material choice was perhaps not the best
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:16 PM   #138
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reason being is that if you have an issue and get some detonation.. it could cost you the block where an other engine would not crack a sleeve over it.. its a good engine but the sleeve material choice was perhaps not the best
To my knowledge, the above scenario is virtually limited to over-boosted and/or poorly-tuned examples, NOT those with a "factory tune" that haven't suffered "abuse". I have personally witnessed two LS7 failures...BOTH attributable to modding with improper "tuning"...

Anytime you go outside of GM's parameters, you venture into "uncharted waters"...at your peril...with ANY engine... There's more than a few blowed-up LS3s out there...
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:37 PM   #139
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You can put your money where ever you want... it makes no matter to me

the cracking issue is there... and yes ..... sometimes things like bad gas causes detonation... most cars run pump gas.... so detonation does happen.. .. its unsupported at the top and prone to cracking.. the severe cases using FI are splitting the sleeve top to bottom... but this is a typical crack....



as far as the LS3 losing the block its due the the piston coming apart and the rod taking out the cylinder wall more often than not and that is due to detonation as well..... which can be caused by bad gas...

yes there are risks when playing the game but there are more risks with some combinations than others... if you know there could be an issue then why mess with it.. relying things being pefect that you dont control like octane is not something we do
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:48 PM   #140
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say hello to someone that blew up an ls1 about 3 years ago now. hand held tuner and open headers don't mix well. detonated a piston and the rod destroyed the wall along with the crank and piston destroying all the channels. block un-salvageable.

Your point is you have to stay with in it's means. and my point is it's means are too tight. I want the option to bore out and get bigger later on. give me 500 hp in a 6.2 that I can bore and stroke later on when I decide to upgrade the internals. with the ls7 I'm limited drastically on my options. best base possible not best base right this second.

earliest I see a z28 hitting the streets is 1 year from the zl1. and that would give a GenV v-8 a good chance of being under the hood. since the vettes test mules are running around now.

the ls7 hasn't been extended for production, yet. which could mean a couple things. they extend it to put it into the z28, while the z06 gets upgraded to a new genV engine and built on the same line. they discontinue the ls7 and produce a GenV for the vette and a possible Z28. I see the last thing happening. a specialized z06 motor still being produced there pushing at least 550hp in the z06 but going off the last two generations the bump would be to 605 hp. so the 7.0 would still be around and the new 427 SBC would have DI and VVT.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:51 PM   #141
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GM wants to make MONEY....
Traditions are lower on to totem pole these days.
No need for GM to make the car light or high revving like the 69.
They will slap some stickers on it like the 45th and SELL SELL SELL because you and I will BUY it because it says Z28...

IMHO Z28 will be a detuned ZL1 without mag ride.
-bobby
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:00 PM   #142
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The sole, solitary reason to bring back a "true" Z/28 is as a streetable daily driver-able track car...PERIOD...

NO FORCED INDUCTION...PERIOD...

Light as possible, with the "necessities", without gingerbread or gold chain holders...PERIOD...

Ford "gets it"...witness the BOSS...in TWO flavors...

If it's gotta have an n/a Gen-6 over-475 hp DI, so be it...

If it's gotta have a boost-unfriendly LS7, so be it...

If it's gotta have MR, so be it...

But this car, known as and faithful to Z/28, is REQUIRED...

...and the sooner, the better...

There's no QUIT for this dawg! And there shouldn't be for GM/Camaro...
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:54 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
The sole, solitary reason to bring back a "true" Z/28 is as a streetable daily driver-able track car...PERIOD...

NO FORCED INDUCTION...PERIOD...

Light as possible, with the "necessities", without gingerbread or gold chain holders...PERIOD...

Ford "gets it"...witness the BOSS...in TWO flavors...

If it's gotta have an n/a Gen-6 over-475 hp DI, so be it...

If it's gotta have a boost-unfriendly LS7, so be it...

If it's gotta have MR, so be it...

But this car, known as and faithful to Z/28, is REQUIRED...

...and the sooner, the better...

There's no QUIT for this dawg! And there shouldn't be for GM/Camaro...
Well said!
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:31 PM   #144
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I think we've seen the Z28 test mule the "ZL1 Track" car. Look real close and notice the changes from the ZL1 that are not part of the ZL1: induction hood(not typical for FI), no bottom aero, possible rear brake cooling, etc.
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:23 PM   #145
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The problem with DI, and the attendant development (increased c.r. etc.) is the final results are NOT mod-friendly... Witness the LLT. STILL no FI aftermarket apps (save STS) in wide usage because the BoschBox in NOT readily mod-able. Yes, a piggyback tune is a possibility, but the LLT is NOT nearly as mod-friendly as the LS...because a deviance too far in tuning in any direction, with high static compression, results in expen$ive paperweights...

Do NOT expect easy modding of the coming Gen-5 SBC...think LLT "locked-box"...
I think that is more of a market problem than a technical problem. For the most part, Cadillac owners (or Traverse owners or V6 Camaro owners or anyone else that owns an LLT) typically don't mod their cars. Yes, there are some but they represent a very small portion of the community.

Conversely, Camaro SS and Corvette owners kinda have a reputation for at least throwing some light mods on their car, like intake exhaust & tune.

Yeah, it might be harder to crack the ECU in the V6, in the same way its harder to get malware into a Mac ... but at the same time, there is way more money to be made if you can hack a PC, or in this case ... a V8, so why bother with the little guy?
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Old 10-14-2011, 12:04 PM   #146
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I think we've seen the Z28 test mule the "ZL1 Track" car. Look real close and notice the changes from the ZL1 that are not part of the ZL1: induction hood(not typical for FI), no bottom aero, possible rear brake cooling, etc.
to me that car looks like it was wrecked and stuck back together. you might be right but that's just what it looks like to me.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 10-14-2011, 01:55 PM   #147
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This dawg has been run through the briars and the brambles...

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149090

Defined as either a 1SS with selected ZL1 content OR a de-contented/re-engined ZL1, with superior power-to-weight compared to a BOSS (which means at least 475 hp, normally aspirated), and undergoing "parallel development" with the ZL1 as we speak (front-opening hood scoop on one "ZL1" mule; who sez all those ZL1 mules have MR?) is far from out of the question...

MY '13/'14/'15 still await the Gen-5 Camaro...so there's still time for Z/28 maturation...

Ah-Ha! that makes total sense!
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Old 10-14-2011, 07:09 PM   #148
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to me that car looks like it was wrecked and stuck back together. you might be right but that's just what it looks like to me.
Look "real" close. The hood is held on with pins(?) strange. Then notice the hood is very wavy almost like quickly made fiberglass. Now look at the "new" opening in the hood, if you look real close it looks like there is a hood under/inside the cheap looking outside hood.
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Old 10-23-2011, 08:41 PM   #149
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Z28 is probably not out 'til 2015..
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Old 10-23-2011, 10:28 PM   #150
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Build your own version of a Z/28. Personally, I don't give a rats ass about the branding, marketing, or labels. I just want a Camaro that handles well on road and track and has serious power without engine falling apart with a little bit of boost pushed into it or reving too high.
The first thing I expect to hear / read once the ZL1 hits market is how many grenaged engines are left in the scrap yard, when people start changing pulleys and adjusting tunes.
You want a bad ass Z/28? Pick up a used Camaro, scrap the LS3 and put in an "IRON" forged 427 LSX, with LSX-LS7 heads and some boost or put in a crate LSX-454 NA and call it a day and be happy.
Just make sure you're involved with the build, ask lot's of questions, have regular meetings to discuss the challenges and issues, and do lot's of research.
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:43 AM   #151
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2013 Camaro Z-28
-----
6.2 LS3 w/ Dry sump (ala Gran Sport)
Z-28 Spec pads & Brake cooling
Z-28 Spec suspension ( tested at the Nurburgring...)
Z-28 Spec wheels & tires (20x9.5 / 20x10.5)
Z-28 Spec front splitter & Spoiler
Z-28 Recaro seat option*
Z-28 --Curb Weight / 3690 lbs--

--$42k MSRP--

Who's buying one ?

I would.
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Old 10-24-2011, 04:29 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by MaximoSS View Post
2013 Camaro Z-28
-----
6.2 LS3 w/ Dry sump (ala Gran Sport)
Z-28 Spec pads & Brake cooling
Z-28 Spec suspension ( tested at the Nurburgring...)
Z-28 Spec wheels & tires (20x9.5 / 20x10.5)
Z-28 Spec front splitter & Spoiler
Z-28 Recaro seat option*
Z-28 --Curb Weight / 3690 lbs--

--$42k MSRP--

Who's buying one ?

I would.
Me too - if I don't get the zl1 first.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:57 PM   #153
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The Z-28 IMHO needs to be Chevy's next debut. So much interest has been created in the Camaro product with the advent of the ZL1. There is a customer base wanting a performance vehicle that can't be satisfied. Not many will have their cravings fullfiled. The limited ZL1 supply will provide the stimulus for such a products success. Come on Chevy, fill that gap and bring us the Z-28. Please!
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