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Old 10-03-2011, 02:05 PM   #26
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LOL! thepill does this every month that the mustang gets beat. Every single month. It's sad and hilarious all at the same time. You've become an absolute parody of yourself on here and I, for one, love it.

Please don't ever stop being sad and pathetic, thePill!!
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:13 PM   #27
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Ok, calm down, the charts posted above of near exotic sports coupes are sales based on a very limited production on vehicles that have been out for quite awhile. What I am pointing out is, the 5th Gen (not really in the same class of many those in the chart except Dodge and the Mustang), is being overproduced and a sales rate NOT mirroring production. All of the other manufacturers listed in the chart above limits production within 1-3% of sales (Including Dodge and Ford).. The S197 is pretty much dead, the Challenger is giving it 2 more years and then Dodge refuses to follow Ford. The Camaro has another 5-6 years left on this model.

I loved the charts and enthusiasm, but everybody knew this was coming. Sport coupes in general are going to be an limited and expensive breed and I am having a hard time considering the Camaro as a "sports coupe". If the Camaro came ut in 2006 it would have been incredible and we would have been driving 400+hp pony cars in 2008 but, that didn't happen... The fact is, Chevrolet reentered a dieing market and is currently leading because it is new... Do you think that the 5th Gen Camaro is a better car than all those listed above? We are cheaper and that is really the only thing going for use now...

The 4th Gen Camaro is outselling the 5th Gen, this is fact... I can give you the numbers... 2.5 years in and sales are almost the same as the 8 year old Mustang.... This car should have been selling 14,000-16,000 a month easy...

Does anybody know the original sales projections of the 5th Gen in the first year?
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:17 PM   #28
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Ok, calm down, the charts posted above of near exotic sports coupes are sales based on a very limited production on vehicles that have been out for quite awhile. What I am pointing out is, the 5th Gen (not really in the same class of many those in the chart except Dodge and the Mustang), is being overproduced and a sales rate NOT mirroring production. All of the other manufacturers listed in the chart above limits production within 1-3% of sales (Including Dodge and Ford).. The S197 is pretty much dead, the Challenger is giving it 2 more years and then Dodge refuses to follow Ford. The Camaro has another 5-6 years left on this model.

I loved the charts and enthusiasm, but everybody knew this was coming. Sport coupes in general are going to be an limited and expensive breed and I am having a hard time considering the Camaro as a "sports coupe". If the Camaro came ut in 2006 it would have been incredible and we would have been driving 400+hp pony cars in 2008 but, that didn't happen... The fact is, Chevrolet reentered a dieing market and is currently leading because it is new... Do you think that the 5th Gen Camaro is a better car than all those listed above? We are cheaper and that is really the only thing going for use now...

The 4th Gen Camaro is outselling the 5th Gen, this is fact... I can give you the numbers... 2.5 years in and sales are almost the same as the 8 year old Mustang.... This car should have been selling 14,000-16,000 a month easy...
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:18 PM   #29
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[QUOTE=thePill;3834956]The Camaro has another 5-6 years left on this model.QUOTE]

I thought the 6th gen Camaro was due in 2014 as a 2015 MY? So that's only 3 more years if my math is right.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:19 PM   #30
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:22 PM   #31
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[QUOTE=IOMZL1;3834985]
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The Camaro has another 5-6 years left on this model.QUOTE]

I thought the 6th gen Camaro was due in 2014 as a 2015 MY? So that's only 3 more years if my math is right.
It would be better but, the ATS is due out at the same time so I would expect to see a 2016-2017 anniversary model if they can sustain sales. If sales continue to fall, then I would expect them to axe the 5th Gen. You need to give Chevrolet at least a year with the new Mustang to benchmark the Camaro, two if they wanna do it right.

I guess to alot of people this is a great ops tempo for a new car, as long as the current owners are happy then what can go wrong? 218,000 units sold in 2.5 model years is NOT high tempo for this market.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:25 PM   #32
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:26 PM   #33
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It would be better but, the ATS is due out at the same time so I would expect to see a 2016-2017 anniversary model if they can sustain sales. If sales continue to fall, then I would expect them to axe the 5th Gen. You need to give Chevrolet at least a year with the new Mustang to benchmark the Camaro, two if they wanna do it right.
Fail.

ATS will be here summer of next year.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:27 PM   #34
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Fail.

ATS will be here summer of next year.
I guess so, but do you really want to cut the 5th Gen short? 5 years of production doesn't seem like a long time for a great selling car. I would figure that could at least last until the anniversary.. besides, don't we both know that 2016 is the target right now?
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:29 PM   #35
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I guess so, but do you really want to cut the 5th Gen short? 5 years of production doesn't seem like a long time for a great selling car. I would figure that could at least last until the anniversary.. besides, don't we both know that 2016 is the target right now?
5-6 years is a standard life cycle for most generations.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:29 PM   #36
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It would be better but, the ATS is due out at the same time so I would expect to see a 2016-2017 anniversary model if they can sustain sales. If sales continue to fall, then I would expect them to axe the 5th Gen. You need to give Chevrolet at least a year with the new Mustang to benchmark the Camaro, two if they wanna do it right.

I guess to alot of people this is a great ops tempo for a new car, as long as the current owners are happy then what can go wrong? 218,000 units sold in 2.5 model years is NOT high tempo for this market.
Lol, this is golden. You do know that the target for the Camaro annual sales were 100,000 and they have met that goal each model year? Once again your opinions are based on no facts and you make yourself sound like a moron. I too get amusement from your posts.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:33 PM   #37
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:35 PM   #38
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Lol, this is golden. You do know that the target for the Camaro annual sales were 100,000 and they have met that goal each model year? Once again your opinions are based on no facts and you make yourself sound like a moron. I too get amusement from your posts.
No bud, the initial goal for the 5th Gen was said by Bob Lutz himself to be 150,000 a year. Cheryl Plitcher also said this at a few of her interviews before the product was released. As time went on, and they witnessed the sales of the Mustang tank, thier predictions went from 150,000 to 100,000.... I would have never believed that the concept was only worth 91,000 which was its best year. It is on track to sell about 85,000 this year.

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5-6 years is a standard life cycle for most generations.
The 2nd, 3rd and 4th Gen was 8+years, I agree that this Gen won't last that long.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:38 PM   #39
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No bud, the inital goal for the 5th Gen was said by Bob Lutz himself to be 150,000 a year. Cheryl Plitcher also said this at a few of her interviews before the product was released. As time went on, and they witnessed the sales of the Mustang tank, there predictions went from 150,000 to 100,000.... I would have never believed that the concept was only worth 91,000 which was its best year. It is on track to sell about 85,000 this year.
The goal has always been 80 - 100K

They guessed they may reach 150K and that was partially based on plant capability.

And why are we arguing predictions from 3 years ago??? This thread is about this month's numbers... Stay on topic please.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:42 PM   #40
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The goal has always been 80 - 100K

They guessed they may reach 150K and that was partially based on plant capability.

And why are we arguing predictions from 3 years ago??? This thread is about this month's numbers... Stay on topic please.
Bob was wrong then... Back on topic, 7000 is great, if they keep up these numbers, the 5th Gen will be a very profitable and high volume seller at the end of its model life span. The profits will most likely attribute to the 6th Gen Camaro when it is released in 2014 and should prove to be very competitive with the next Mustang.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:45 PM   #41
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Ok, calm down, the charts posted above of near exotic sports coupes are sales based on a very limited production on vehicles that have been out for quite awhile. What I am pointing out is, the 5th Gen (not really in the same class of many those in the chart except Dodge and the Mustang), is being overproduced and a sales rate NOT mirroring production. All of the other manufacturers listed in the chart above limits production within 1-3% of sales (Including Dodge and Ford).. The S197 is pretty much dead, the Challenger is giving it 2 more years and then Dodge refuses to follow Ford. The Camaro has another 5-6 years left on this model.

I loved the charts and enthusiasm, but everybody knew this was coming. Sport coupes in general are going to be an limited and expensive breed and I am having a hard time considering the Camaro as a "sports coupe". If the Camaro came ut in 2006 it would have been incredible and we would have been driving 400+hp pony cars in 2008 but, that didn't happen... The fact is, Chevrolet reentered a dieing market and is currently leading because it is new... Do you think that the 5th Gen Camaro is a better car than all those listed above? We are cheaper and that is really the only thing going for use now...

The 4th Gen Camaro is outselling the 5th Gen, this is fact... I can give you the numbers... 2.5 years in and sales are almost the same as the 8 year old Mustang.... This car should have been selling 14,000-16,000 a month easy...

Does anybody know the original sales projections of the 5th Gen in the first year?
I really didn't think that you would even want to try to give a rebuttal to the numbers given as clearly as humanly possible. But for some reason you just won't give up. Even the Challenger is heavily beating any of the other cars on the sporty list, and it is just as overpriced as some of the other cars on the list. Even with that, many of the cars are cheaper than the Camaro's starting price (Scion TC, Honda CRZ, etc)

Your logic doesn't make much sense. You defend everybody else stating that their sales numbers are low because their lineup is stale, but in the same thread state that the reason the pony cars are dying is because their models are all stale... So wait, everybody else isn't dying, just the pony cars huh? The ones with over 3x the sales of anybody else in the same market? And no other manufacturer has been redesigning their cars? What are you smoking???

You state that the cars listed are "near exotics" and then state that sports coupes are going to be a limited and expensive breed. (well then I suppose it makes sense that a few of them are called near exotics) But wait, let me say this again, you said that they are going to be a limited and expensive breed, yet you expect the Camaro to sell like it's a Toyota Camry? The 2-door market will continue to be a niche market for people who take pride in looks and performance over practicality. So what? That doesn't mean that the Camaro, Mustang, or Challenger is dying. ALL the other sporty cars, even with much more fuel efficient engines, are selling in far lower numbers than the Big 3's numbers. For the market segment that these cars are targeted at, they are selling very well. There is no other way to look at it. Period.
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:00 PM   #42
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I really didn't think that you would even want to try to give a rebuttal to the numbers given as clearly as humanly possible. But for some reason you just won't give up. Even the Challenger is heavily beating any of the other cars on the sporty list, and it is just as overpriced as some of the other cars on the list. Even with that many of the cars are cheaper than the Camaro's starting price (Scion TC, Honda CRZ, etc)

Your logic doesn't make much sense. You defend everybody else stating that their sales numbers are low because their lineup is stale, but in the same thread state that the reason the pony cars are dying is because their models are all stale... So wait, everybody else isn't dying, just the pony cars huh? The ones with over 3x the sales of anybody else in the same market? And no other manufacturer has been redesigning their cars? What are you smoking???

You state that the cars listed are "near exotics" and then state that sports coupes are going to be a limited and expensive breed. (well then I supposed it makes sense that many of them are called near exotics) But wait, let me say this again, you said that they are going to be a limited and expensive breed, yet you expect the Camaro to sell like it's a Toyota Camry? The 2-door market will continue to be a niche market for people who take pride in looks and performance over practicality. So what? That doesn't mean that the Camaro, Mustang, or Challenger is dying. ALL the other sporty cars with much more fuel efficient engines are selling in far lower numbers than the Big 3's numbers. For the market segment that these cars are targeted at, they are selling very well. There is no other way to look at it. Period.
I apologize, I just looked at you charts again and I was mistaken. The Camaro is clearly leading the segment in sales across the board. A new product will always have challenges and regardless of the economy, sales couldn't be better. I would have hope for more at this point but the Camaro is outselling the Corvette and Porsche 911. The Camaro alone is the only vehicle capable of sustaining interest in the American sports coupe market.

Whatever the sales numbers of this new product are, lets forget them... The fact is that this new product is outselling every single performance vehicle offered today. It doesn't really matter when it came out, what really matters is that it did come out and whether GM is happy with the results is irrelevant. What is important is that those who wanted one, finally got one and I am sure that sales will continue to rise regardless of product trends. Just as weight was used to slander the car, it has no effect of actual sales... and furthermore.. actual sales has no effect on its popularity.

I have to admit, I was wrong on my previous post. I just can't see this car following its predecessor's sales trends (Mustang, Firebird or Camaro) and will continue steady sales throughout its remaining years... Again, apologizes for the abrupt sales analysis...
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:10 PM   #43
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I apologize, I just looked at you charts again and I was mistaken. The Camaro is clearly leading the segment in sales across the board. A new product will always have challenges and regardless of the economy, sales couldn't be better. I would have hope for more at this point but the Camaro is outselling the Corvette and Porsche 911. The Camaro alone is the only vehicle capable of sustaining interest in the American sports coupe market.

Whatever the sales numbers of this new product are, lets forget them... The fact is that this new product is outselling every single performance vehicle offered today. It doesn't really matter when it came out, what really matters is that it did come out and whether GM is happy with the results is irrelevant. What is important is that those who wanted one, finally got one and I am sure that sales will continue to rise regardless of product trends. Just as weight was used to slander the car, it has no effect of actual sales... and furthermore.. actual sales has no effect on its popularity.

I have to admit, I was wrong on my previous post. I just can't see this car following its predecessor's sales trends (Mustang, Firebird or Camaro) and will continue steady sales throughout its remaining years... Again, apologizes for the abrupt sales analysis...
lol, you forgot your <sarcasm> tags.... but seriously, I know the Camaro is selling more because it is new and in a few years w/o a redesign it will be selling far fewer, just like the trend for the 05-09 Mustang. However, I was trying to make a point that no matter how you look at it, the big 3 ALL are heavily outselling any of the competition and that alone shows more demand for them in their market than anything else. Even the Challenger with its even heavier chasis, less fuel efficient engine, and older underpinnings is still beating anything not in the Big 3. Will gas prices continue to weigh heavily on sporty cars? Yes. Will the Camaro have a 4 cyl in the next platform? maybe, but it will still look like a Camaro, no matter how you slice it. And it is my belief that as long as they don't horribly mess up the redesign, no matter what engine is under the hood of the base model it will still outsell most of the competition. As long as people crave a car that is more fun than practical "sporty coupes" will continue to be around.
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:18 PM   #44
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That's great, but maybe they should focus on getting the Camaros they've already sold to their owners in a timely manner.

Passed the 8 week "upper ceiling" the dealer promised me a week ago, and my car's now been sitting at a local rail yard going nowhere, with no explanation, for eight days.
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:24 PM   #45
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lol, you forgot your <sarcasm> tags.... but seriously, I know the Camaro is selling more because it is new and in a few years w/o a redesign it will be selling far fewer, just like the trend for the 05-09 Mustang. However, I was trying to make a point that no matter how you look at it, the big 3 ALL are heavily outselling any of the competition and that alone shows more demand for them in their market than anything else. Even the Challenger with its even heavier chasis, less fuel efficient engine, and older underpinnings is still beating anything not in the Big 3. Will gas prices continue to weigh heavily on sporty cars? Yes. Will the Camaro have a 4 cyl in the next platform? maybe, but it will still look like a Camaro, no matter how you slice it. And it is my belief that as long as they don't horribly mess up the redesign, no matter what engine is under the hood of the base model it will still outsell most of the competition. As long as people crave a car that is more fun than practical "sporty coupes" will continue to be around.
I know, I wasn't being sarcastic.. I was giving the political, don't ban me again response. The American sports coupes are selling better than the rest of the field. However, we are beginning to be classified and priced along with those that are elite (M3) but still producing on a level far higher then they are. Ford has already limited production due to demand, same as BMW with the M3. Chevrolet can no longer produce the 5th Gen as they do and only sell 80% of what they make. 1-5% is Ok, incentives will clear the lots eventually, 20% and in some months up to 40% is a marketing NO GO. This car is still slightly new, another year its gonna nose dive, even if the economy was great, new products don't last forever... If the US market doesn't shape up, we will be down there with everyone else....

Quote:
That's great, but maybe they should focus on getting the Camaros they've already sold to their owners in a timely manner.

Passed the 8 week "upper ceiling" the dealer promised me a week ago, and my car's now been sitting at a local rail yard going nowhere, with no explanation, for eight days.
Hang in there, most of the time dealers lose contact with the cars on rail. It is actually a complicated process to ship a car and I know first hand that the wait is horrible especially with winter coming... Also, this is the Camaro's fleet sales season, priority is wholesale.
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:44 PM   #46
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At this rate, the pony car will be dead in another year. Regardless of the numbers, the sales are stale... 6,900, 5000 and 3300? At least the Camaro incentives helped sustain sales for September, however, the long cold winter is approaching... There needs to be a change in the pony car lineup ASAP... The Camaro leading with 6,900 sales is awful... that is about 45% of where it should be. The muscle cars are dead, time to shed the dead skin and become something else...

Edit: And 47,000 Camaro's left unsold to date.. ugg....
If the segement is dying, why is it on an upward trend vs a year ago?
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:53 PM   #47
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Facepalm... The camaro is leading its class in sales because it has the best combo, of styling, performance, ride quality, fuel economy and the most swagg in the eyes of the general public. Some co-workers of mine love the camaro best because its like owning a life size Hot Wheels car. Im not buying the whole "Its only selling more because its new" cop out, I don't see the newer focus out selling the cruze.
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:58 PM   #48
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Facepalm... The camaro is leading its class in sales because it has the best combo, of styling, performance, ride quality, fuel economy and the most swagg in the eyes of the general public. Some co-workers of mine love the camaro best because its like owning a lfe size Hot Wheel car. Im not buying the whole "Its only selling more because its new" cop out, I don't see the newer focus out selling the cruze.
Plus, using the 'old vs new' logic ... shouldn't the Challenger be outselling the Mustang, since its newer?
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Old 10-03-2011, 06:06 PM   #49
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Plus, using the 'old vs new' logic ... shouldn't the Challenger be outselling the Mustang, since its newer?
lol was about to post this.
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Old 10-03-2011, 06:29 PM   #50
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Just my opinion, but with 9+% unemployment in this country, almost 1 in every 10 people, and probably actually higher, and a $30,000+ car, I think the sales are amazing. Even the upper middle class is holding onto their dollars, people are doing without many things, and even if they need a new car, they are settling for less. Lets see what happens to sales when we get this country back on track.

It is an amazing vehicle, even many Corvette owners have "traded down" to it. And even if they discontinue it... I got mine.
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