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Old 10-04-2011, 02:50 PM   #1
jasycz28
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When are 2" headers necessary?

Just like the title says when do 2" headers out due the 1 7/8" headers?

Any back to back dyno numbers?
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:55 PM   #2
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They make more power everywhere even on a bone stock engine.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:57 PM   #3
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They are usually just used on FI cars
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:05 PM   #4
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There was a test and the 2" did out perform the 1 7/8ths even on the stock tune. Not by much but when you go adding a cam ect. they are the way to go if you want to maximize what you have.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:10 PM   #5
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2" are the way to go nomatter how you slice it... wish i would ahve gotten them
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DietCoke View Post
They make more power everywhere even on a bone stock engine.
This is a myth. One shop two years ago posted results of a test they did. If I remember correct, it was just they posted the peak numbers, not like a chart that shows power throughout the whole powerband.

I have been selling LSX parts now for 8 years, and have sold as many headers as anyone. 2" headers only sell for cars making 750+ rwhp. This is not my opinion..you call any major header manufacturer, and they will tell you the same. If 2" headers were better everywhere, why would header manufactuers bother making 1 3/4" and 1 7/8"? It would make life alot easier for everyone.

Everything you need to know about headers can be summed up in a garden hose. The idea of a header is the make the exhaust gas move faster. The faster the exhaust gas moves, the faster new air/fuel can replace it in the cylinder head, and the more efficiantly the engine can breathe.

Going back to the garden hose..if you replace your garden hose with a bigger garden hose...what happens? The water comes out the end slower because it is not as pressurized. The water will only move the same speed as the smaller hose if you turn the water up real high. Same thing with a header. If you put a big header on, it does not pressurize the exhaust gas as much initially, which hurts exhaust velocity. If the exhaust does not move as fast initially, you lose lowend power and TQ. You may see a same, or higher peak HP number witha 2" header, but that is because ones the engine is really wound up over 5K RPM, the bigger primary can flow it better.

Long and short is..you want the smallest diameter primary that can flow the maximum exhaust output of the engine efficiantly. if you go on LS1Tech, Corvette forums, or any of the other really technical LSX boards and say..I am gonan run 2" headers on my stock LS3, you will get laughed out the place.

I think it is time for another test
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:21 PM   #7
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This is a myth.
About sums it up -

Matched parts always work better than some arbitrary dyno test.

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Old 10-04-2011, 03:30 PM   #8
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Jannetty did a comprehensive test showing the entire curve.

2 inch exactly matched the 1 7/8 all the way to 5-5500 and made 5 more rwhp peak. And this was on a stock ls3. 1 3/4 was down 10 rwhp peak and 5rwhp through most of the curve.

2 inch is the way to go regardless.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:31 PM   #9
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There has been a Test of header tube sizes on here by jenetty. I know the old saying the better it breaths it more power.

IF you are looking at a stock or a cammed Car the 1 7/8 looks to be your best bet.

If you have a pretty hot Forced induction car you can go with 2inch however I dont see that great amounts of hp coming out of 2inch.


I would go with them if I had a F1 car with a larger Cam.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:53 PM   #10
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I have 2" on my car, no tune and a home made cold air... I just ran 113mph sunday and pulls 112 about every pass, 12.60 on stock tires. I think they are working pretty well, they definitly wont hurt and if you have plans to make over 500rwhp they will be worth it.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:09 PM   #11
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I have 2" on my car, no tune and a home made cold air... I just ran 113mph sunday and pulls 112 about every pass, 12.60 on stock tires. I think they are working pretty well, they definitly wont hurt and if you have plans to make over 500rwhp they will be worth it.
And Micheal Jordan could score 30 pts a game with Hanes 3 sizes too big. Does not mean it is right. Again..if you step outside the Camaro5 Vortex..and look at some of the othe LSX boards, you will find a lot more info than 1 dyno test that a 2" header does not make sense untill you really turn the power up.

Again..no one has answered my question...if 2" is better everywhere..why would the header companies makes 3 different sizes and only recommend 2" for the most extreme applications? Bigger is not better with exhaust.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:26 PM   #12
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They make it because people buy it. If you think 2 s are better than jump On them. Not much of a difference, they are all better than stock.
I would like to think the big header companies have done their research, and thats what they have decided, but i do know better than that. They just posted what they thought and nobody has cared to disprove them.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:49 PM   #13
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so you guys saying the 2" headers are the best way to go, would you also say based on your experience that a carb sytle intake or fast 102mm would be the best intake for a 5.3L LSx?
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:25 PM   #14
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Like i said... 2" headers make more power. Period. They arent as commonly used because they fit worse,and cost more, along with being heavier. Come up with all the stupid analogy you want, but the reality stays the same. 2" make more power, and the more mods you have, the more power they will make. I have 2" stepped to 2 1/8 staring at me in the garage for the new motor...
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:29 PM   #15
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Why don't you get both 1 7/8" and 2".
I asked Kooks to make me a set.They sent me these signature series stepped headers 1 7/8" then it goes to 2".
Best of both worlds.
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed View Post

I think it is time for another test
Feel free.

I'd trust Janetty any day of the week though.

Using your analogy.....why do manufacturers make electric superchargers? They must work since they make them right.
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:34 PM   #17
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so you guys saying the 2" headers are the best way to go, would you also say based on your experience that a carb sytle intake or fast 102mm would be the best intake for a 5.3L LSx?
This isn't a 5.3L forum....it's a 6.2L + forum. Duh.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:17 PM   #18
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I guess I should of said that I am whippled and at 570rwhp stock everything else. Next step in my plan is full exhaust and cai. Then a cam. So I hope to break the 700 mark. Really looking at LG's full setup nocats $1900 shipped. Might have to wait for a 2" special to happen.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed View Post
This is a myth. One shop two years ago posted results of a test they did. If I remember correct, it was just they posted the peak numbers, not like a chart that shows power throughout the whole powerband.

I have been selling LSX parts now for 8 years, and have sold as many headers as anyone. 2" headers only sell for cars making 750+ rwhp. This is not my opinion..you call any major header manufacturer, and they will tell you the same. If 2" headers were better everywhere, why would header manufactuers bother making 1 3/4" and 1 7/8"? It would make life alot easier for everyone.

Everything you need to know about headers can be summed up in a garden hose. The idea of a header is the make the exhaust gas move faster. The faster the exhaust gas moves, the faster new air/fuel can replace it in the cylinder head, and the more efficiantly the engine can breathe.

Going back to the garden hose..if you replace your garden hose with a bigger garden hose...what happens? The water comes out the end slower because it is not as pressurized. The water will only move the same speed as the smaller hose if you turn the water up real high. Same thing with a header. If you put a big header on, it does not pressurize the exhaust gas as much initially, which hurts exhaust velocity. If the exhaust does not move as fast initially, you lose lowend power and TQ. You may see a same, or higher peak HP number witha 2" header, but that is because ones the engine is really wound up over 5K RPM, the bigger primary can flow it better.

Long and short is..you want the smallest diameter primary that can flow the maximum exhaust output of the engine efficiantly. if you go on LS1Tech, Corvette forums, or any of the other really technical LSX boards and say..I am gonan run 2" headers on my stock LS3, you will get laughed out the place.

I think it is time for another test
This reminds me of 5 years ago when people said a bolt on LS1 wouldn't gain anything going from 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" and most said I would lose power. So I dynoed my car with the 1 3/4", swapped them out on the dyno and dynoed again. Results? Everything under 4.5K was identical and I gained a few rwhp above 4.5K rpm.

Your garden hose analogy isn't very good. If you go to a bigger hose, yes the water will come out slower, but it will also come out in a greater volume. Pressure does not equal volume. You can open the hose and look at how fast the water comes out, put your finger over the end, the pressure goes up, speed at which the water comes out goes up but the volume goes down.

Companies make plenty of headers because people want choices. The same reason there are 100 different cold air intakes.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
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This reminds me of 5 years ago when people said a bolt on LS1 wouldn't gain anything going from 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" and most said I would lose power. So I dynoed my car with the 1 3/4", swapped them out on the dyno and dynoed again. Results? Everything under 4.5K was identical and I gained a few rwhp above 4.5K rpm.

Your garden hose analogy isn't very good. If you go to a bigger hose, yes the water will come out slower, but it will also come out in a greater volume. Pressure does not equal volume. You can open the hose and look at how fast the water comes out, put your finger over the end, the pressure goes up, speed at which the water comes out goes up but the volume goes down.

Companies make plenty of headers because people want choices. The same reason there are 100 different cold air intakes.
He is correct. The skinny hose does not help...
If you had the same volume of water in your mouth as a guy next to you. You both will attempt to squirt the water out as fast as possible. You both get to choose a straw. Will you choose the fat milk shake straw or the skinny coffee stirring straw? You choose the FAT straw to get the water out faster.

Or think of a cup with a hole at the bottom, the one with the bigger hole lets it out faster.
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:12 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed View Post
Long and short is..you want the smallest diameter primary that can flow the maximum exhaust output of the engine efficiantly. if you go on LS1Tech, Corvette forums, or any of the other really technical LSX boards and say..I am gonan run 2" headers on my stock LS3, you will get laughed out the place.

I think it is time for another test

And yes, it is time for another test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Li0nel1234 View Post
He is correct. The skinny hose does not help...
If you had the same volume of water in your mouth as a guy next to you. You both will attempt to squirt the water out as fast as possible. You both get to choose a straw. Will you choose the fat milk shake straw or the skinny coffee stirring straw? You choose the FAT straw to get the water out faster.

Or think of a cup with a hole at the bottom, the one with the bigger hole lets it out faster.
It is true up to a certain point. Try using a straw with a diameter the size of a paper towel tube and see how fast you can squirt the water out of your mouth.

So fill your mouth full of water then aim up then get a huge straw and try to squirt the water out. Next try the same thing with a narrower straw then finally the smallest one. The best will be the one in the middle(milkshake) not the smallest(coffee) or the widest(paper towel).

If 2" is better why stop there why not 3" or 4"?

Every application is different. On a stock motor the 1 7/8 might be better but on a FI motor the 2" may be the best.
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:38 PM   #22
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And yes, it is time for another test.

It is true up to a certain point. Try using a straw with a diameter the size of a paper towel tube and see how fast you can squirt the water out of your mouth.

So fill your mouth full of water then aim up then get a huge straw and try to squirt the water out. Next try the same thing with a narrower straw then finally the smallest one. The best will be the one in the middle(milkshake) not the smallest(coffee) or the widest(paper towel).

If 2" is better why stop there why not 3" or 4"?

Every application is different. On a stock motor the 1 7/8 might be better but on a FI motor the 2" may be the best.
You can't compare a fixed amount of water in your mouth to something that has a constant flow. Obviously you can't fit 3" or 4" primaries, but I think for what I am looking for (faster 1/4 mile times) the bigger primaries the better. Obviously you will see bigger gains the more power you make, but I don't think there is any reason anyone should go with less than 2" primaries besides cost.
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:26 PM   #23
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I've always heard that, yes, unless you have a pretty radical set-up, you really don't need 2" headers. But I've also heard that they won't hurt your performance either. I'm never certain what direction my modifications may take down the road, so why limit yourself? In many cases (like Stainless Works) the 2" and 1-7/8" headers cost the same. Why buy something that may need upgraded at a later date? In my opinion, buy the 2" now, and never need to upgrade headers ever again!!! If someone could prove to me that 2" headers will hurt my performance (with something a little more substantial than hose analogies), then I may think differently.
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Old 10-04-2011, 11:09 PM   #24
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Why don't you get both 1 7/8" and 2".
I asked Kooks to make me a set.They sent me these signature series stepped headers 1 7/8" then it goes to 2".
Best of both worlds.
Maryland Speed, any chance we will see the 1 7/8-2" stepped Signature Series readily available from Kooks or are they going to be special order only?
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Old 10-04-2011, 11:23 PM   #25
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2" look pretty killer sittin under the hood, I made 703hp on the motor naturally aspirated if I was makin that at the wheels I would have went with 2" but my tuner and the manufacture recommended 1 7/8" no regrets, Im makin 610hp to the wheels.
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