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Old 10-11-2011, 11:36 AM   #1
woodside783
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will the ZL1 suspension be for sale?

Will GM performance offer the ZL1 suspension for other camaro owners. Or is the after market better?
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:45 AM   #2
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aftermarket is cheaper and better
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stieger View Post
aftermarket is cheaper and better
ARE U SAYING THAT A LETS SAY A PFADHT OR PEDDERS COILOVER IS BETTER THEN THIS OEM SET UP..SAWRY FOR THE CAPS.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:08 PM   #4
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Will GM performance offer the ZL1 suspension for other camaro owners. Or is the after market better?
Im sure they will be available to be purchased like any other OEM part you can order thru you're dealer.
The question is, how much will it cost VS aftermarket coil overs.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:23 PM   #5
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ok but I am asking if any 1 thinks or knows...will the zl1 susp be better then lets say pfadts , pedders, bc coil overs...etc ?
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:25 PM   #6
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aftermarket is cheaper and better
Are you sure about that.

Although aftermarket companies have some really good products, I highly doubt it will be better than the Gen3 MRS
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:08 PM   #7
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price is all so what i wonder about to
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:30 PM   #8
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I wonder of any of the sponsor will be strong and tell us the real scoop...pluses and minus...is the zl1 set up as good, better, or whatever...Apex CHase, Justice Pete, and all the other know it alls...i want to know
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:38 PM   #9
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ARE U SAYING THAT A LETS SAY A PFADHT OR PEDDERS COILOVER IS BETTER THEN THIS OEM SET UP..SAWRY FOR THE CAPS.
Most in the industry would agree. Aftermaket will be better than OEM. Mag ride or not.

Not saying that ZL1 owners should scrap their MR. Most will be more than satisfied with the stock MR suspension.

But MR has some limitations that keep it from truly being race ready. Heat being one of them.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:38 PM   #10
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There are still some distinct advantages of coilovers over the factory Mag Ride system. We are basing this off of our experience with the factory Mag Ride system in the current C6 Corvette.

The biggest advantage of coilovers are higher than production spring rates, and ride height control. Magnetic ride shocks can be really neat engineering exercises, but are still shocks. What coilovers provide from a performance aspect is the ability to effectively control braking and acceleration forces on the suspension by increasing spring rates over what are typically packaged in production cars, as well as the ability to fine tune your ride height. The aftermarket also addresses potential weaknesses in roll stiffness with the use of sway bars which mag ride shocks cannot. Not only does ride height factor into how aggressive your Camaro visually appears, but the changes to center of gravity can have a positive effect on your Camaro's performance capability.

Speaking from Corvette experience, we have plenty of customers who install our coilovers and never look back at the Mag ride system. It's a really neat achievement for production cars and is a nice upgrade over the current factory spring and shock combination, but for those looking for the ultimate in flexibility of their suspension it's still hard to beat a set of properly engineered coilovers. Another point to keep in mind, as to be expected the part cost of replacing a current Corvette mag ride shock is MUCH more expensive than a traditional shock.

There are some real positives in the Mag ride system, changing your ride quality with a touch of a button in the dash is certainly cool and can be useful, but ultimate performance is usually found with properly designed coilover products.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:42 PM   #11
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Sweet, I'm not talking out of my @$$.

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Old 10-11-2011, 02:47 PM   #12
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excellent...thank you Chase..just what i needed to hear.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:53 PM   #13
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excellent...thank you Chase..just what i needed to hear.
I'm sure Chase appreciates the compliment... but chase is the username Apex Speed.
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:03 PM   #14
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oh my bad....i buy so much pfadt stuff from him
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:26 PM   #15
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Will GM performance offer the ZL1 suspension for other Camaro owners. Or is the after market better?
This technology has been available in AU since 2006 and I believe first appeared on the C5 in 2003. The ZL1 MR system is excellent. The integration of MR into traction and stability control is a tour de force of GM technology. The MR system will hands down make the majority of ZL1 drivers faster on the street, strip and road course. It is not a nanny system. It is a driving coach that reads how you drive and adjusts the car to you as well as road conditions. On a scale of 1 to 10 for production suspension the ZL1 MR gets a 9.9. It would be a 10 if it allowed the owner to program damping rates and ride height.

Retro fitting MR is a complex process. It requires the computer modules and sensors from a factory equipped MR vehicle be installed with the MR dampers and coils. I won't say it is not possible, but I will say it is not cost effective. Installing a set of coilovers will deliver a far more predictable result than a retro fit MR system.

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ARE U SAYING THAT A LETS SAY A PFADHT OR PEDDERS COILOVER IS BETTER THEN THIS OEM SET UP..SAWRY FOR THE CAPS.
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Are you sure about that.

Although aftermarket companies have some really good products, I highly doubt it will be better than the Gen3 MRS
It would depend on your definition of better. MR fluid builds heat, lots of heat. More than one MR system has failed on the Ring, just ask Ferrari. The GM engineers have worked overtime on the ZL1 system especially with durability on road courses. Most casual users will have no issues and as I said before, will be faster with the OE system.

Then there is the next level of performance. The ZL1 Ring time is off the carts. Is there anyone, including the GM engineers that did a brilliant job on the ZL1, that thinks it wouldn't have been much faster lowered 40mm front and 55mm rear? The same is true for coil rate, rear sway bar diameter and more. With an expert driver behind the wheel, I'll take a Pedderised Camaro of equal power to the ZL1 and beat it all day long. This in no way a negative comment about the ZL1 and the MR system. GM can't build the car as low as we want it because to many customers would destroy the front fascia by ramming it into a curb or parking barrier. Don't laugh. The Corvette is the ONLY GM vehicle to get an exception to curb / parking barrier rule. Then there is crash testing and a litany of other reasons as a corporate entity that get in the way. Lowering, independent bound and rebound control, and choice of spring rate make coilovers the tool of choice for the hard core track owners of a ZL1.

I could go on, but who wants to read my blather. I hope you all find this a fair and balanced account of the MR questions.
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:27 PM   #16
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There are still some distinct advantages of coilovers over the factory Mag Ride system. We are basing this off of our experience with the factory Mag Ride system in the current C6 Corvette.

The biggest advantage of coilovers are higher than production spring rates, and ride height control. Magnetic ride shocks can be really neat engineering exercises, but are still shocks. What coilovers provide from a performance aspect is the ability to effectively control braking and acceleration forces on the suspension by increasing spring rates over what are typically packaged in production cars, as well as the ability to fine tune your ride height. The aftermarket also addresses potential weaknesses in roll stiffness with the use of sway bars which mag ride shocks cannot. Not only does ride height factor into how aggressive your Camaro visually appears, but the changes to center of gravity can have a positive effect on your Camaro's performance capability.

Speaking from Corvette experience, we have plenty of customers who install our coilovers and never look back at the Mag ride system. It's a really neat achievement for production cars and is a nice upgrade over the current factory spring and shock combination, but for those looking for the ultimate in flexibility of their suspension it's still hard to beat a set of properly engineered coilovers. Another point to keep in mind, as to be expected the part cost of replacing a current Corvette mag ride shock is MUCH more expensive than a traditional shock.

There are some real positives in the Mag ride system, changing your ride quality with a touch of a button in the dash is certainly cool and can be useful, but ultimate performance is usually found with properly designed coilover products.
This is where my logic came from.
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:37 PM   #17
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excellent explanations from you gentleman. This is good to know because all i want to do is pfadt and pedderize my ride...i will have pedders headlights and pfdat bulbs
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:49 PM   #18
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excellent explanations from you gentleman. This is good to know because all i want to do is pfadt and pedderize my ride...i will have pedders headlights and pfdat bulbs
there are a ton of cars around here with a combination of parts from both companies. why not have the best of both worlds.

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Old 10-11-2011, 03:52 PM   #19
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Well, my point of view was price versus benefits. I know we don't know how much the ZL1 or even a full magnetic ride suspension is worth, but I figure a fully pedderized, or pfadt, or whatever your system of choice is, will be roughlty in the 3-4k range.
With MRS you get the choice to change bound and rebound on the fly. Yes there are flaws, as there are with all complicated systems. But I guess we will have to wait and see the price to determine if it is worth it.
For me personally it is worth having all this cool state of the art technology, over a dedicated aftermarket component. But that's just my point of view.
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:55 PM   #20
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Well, my point of view was price versus benefits. I know we don't know how much the ZL1 or even a full magnetic ride suspension is worth, but I figure a fully pedderized, or pfadt, or whatever your system of choice is, will be roughlty in the 3-4k range.
With MRS you get the choice to change bound and rebound on the fly. Yes there are flaws, as there are with all complicated systems. But I guess we will have to wait and see the price to determine if it is worth it.
For me personally it is worth having all this cool state of the art technology, over a dedicated aftermarket component. But that's just my point of view.
That's a great point.

the thought of MR, even without the complete adjustability of a coilover setup, from the factory with a warranty is pretty bad ass if you ask me.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:11 PM   #21
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this helps out a lot thanks guys
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:19 PM   #22
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Well, my point of view was price versus benefits. I know we don't know how much the ZL1 or even a full magnetic ride suspension is worth, but I figure a fully pedderized, or pfadt, or whatever your system of choice is, will be roughlty in the 3-4k range.
With MRS you get the choice to change bound and rebound on the fly. Yes there are flaws, as there are with all complicated systems. But I guess we will have to wait and see the price to determine if it is worth it.
For me personally it is worth having all this cool state of the art technology, over a dedicated aftermarket component. But that's just my point of view.
Get ready for sticker shock. A full Pedders system -- Supercars, bushes and bars is almost double your low number. Those that have driven the system will tell you it is worth every penny. I would not say the Pedders Justice package is better than the ZL1 system. I would say the Pedders system is better for a particular group of drivers.

I would never say the ZL1 MR system is flawed. It will make the majority of ZL1 owners faster and that doesn't happen with a flawed system One more time, well done TEAM Camaro
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:40 PM   #23
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Well you have several options for this. GM might release this package to retail. You can wait for the wrecked zl1's and snag what ya need from junkyards. Or you can go aftermarket.

I have alot of faith in the aftermarket though, thats where the real innovators are. Lets face it gm is a big corp. and most corps don't have balls to push the limit because thier scared of losing thier job from a bad decision. Aftermarket will do this and usually will stand behind thier product unlike a car makers warranty which usually push blame else where.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:51 PM   #24
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Well you have several options for this. GM might release this package to retail. You can wait for the wrecked zl1's and snag what ya need from junkyards. Or you can go aftermarket.

I have alot of faith in the aftermarket though, thats where the real innovators are. Lets face it gm is a big corp. and most corps don't have balls to push the limit because thier scared of losing thier job from a bad decision. Aftermarket will do this and usually will stand behind thier product unlike a car makers warranty which usually push blame else where.
Well to be fair the Mag Ride systems on the ZL1, C6 Vette and CTS-V are pretty impressive pieces of engineering added to suspension systems that were doing A-OK before they decided to push the envelope. They are definitely a step in the right direction!
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:06 PM   #25
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1. Well you have several options for this. GM might release this package to retail. 2. You can wait for the wrecked zl1's and snag what ya need from junkyards. Or you can go aftermarket.

I have alot of faith in the aftermarket though, thats where the real innovators are. 3. Lets face it gm is a big corp. and most corps don't have balls to push the limit because thier scared of losing thier job from a bad decision. Aftermarket will do this and usually will stand behind thier product unlike a car makers warranty which usually push blame else where.
1. I doubt you'll see this happen as the system has to integrate to the on-board computers and sensors. IMO the potential for things to go wrong on installation and potential liabilities will proably prevent this.

2. This may be an option if the wiring harnesses from the 10 and 11 are compatible with the ZL1 modules and sensors. Even on the 12s the LT and SS harnesses may be different from the ZL1. If they match up spare parts (dampers, coils, sensors and computers) could be made to work. It will depend on how much time a person is willing to throw into.

3. GM has treated my warranty claims fairly, but you are right about some aftermarket companies going above and beyond regarding customer satisfaction and pushing the envelope.
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