Here we go. Stepped headers or uniform size? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Raptor626 · 10-14-2011, 08:14 PM

****NOT INTERESTED IN STARTING A THREAD ON WHICH PRIMARY SIZE IS BETTER/BEST FOR WHATEVER REASON*****

All I want to know is if you'd rather go with headers that utilize a stepped setup (primaries start off one size, then enlarge) or a uniform setup (primaries start off one size and remain that size all the way to the collectors)?

Thanks.

blazzin1 · 10-14-2011, 08:40 PM

Yeah sure, why not, the stepped header has been proven to be beneficial. Unfortunately, they're too expensive. But if money was no object...yes I would.

MarylandSpeed · 10-14-2011, 08:45 PM

Obviously you are going to get a lot of responses one way or another. My personal experiance is that a stepped header makes more power in pretty much every application we have tried it as long as it has been set up right. Let's be honest here..aside from the fact that it works, what other reason or advantage do I have to gain by bringing out a more expensive product in an already price sensitive market, that further confuses the buying decision for customer? Bottom line is..I want to offer the best products..and our experiance shows that a properly designed stepped header performs best.

Raptor626 · 10-14-2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazzin1

Yeah sure, why not, the stepped header has been proven to be beneficial. Unfortunately, they're too expensive. But if money was no object...yes I would.

Actually, MarylandSpeed has a pretty good price on Kooks stepped headers. That's actually why I posed this question. The difference was only like $300, which I don't think is much.

I'm actually in the same boat as another member on here. I can't decide which to go with, ARH or Kooks. They're both great fabricators, and the guys at Kooks actually worked at ARH if I'm not mistaken. So, with that said, let's assume that the quality is comparable. The next deciding factor would be price. I live about 30min from the actual ARH shop and am a member of NY5thGEN, so I would get a pretty good deal on purchase/install.

HOWEVER! If I can get Kooks stepped headers, which make more power and will cost me about the same as an ARH setup, why not?

Thanks blazzin.

And MarylandSpeed, you might be getting a call from me in the very near future.

blazzin1 · 10-14-2011, 09:13 PM

Don't forget about Stainless Works!!! They're just as good as the other two.....and it may not be on their website, but they do make a 1-7/8" to 2" stepped header. Not sure about prices, but I'm pretty sure they're a bit more expensive than the Kooks.

MarylandSpeed · 10-14-2011, 09:21 PM

Stainlessworks makes a good header no doubt. We sell a lot of their product, and I have no issue recommending it. I likely will even put them on my CTS-V. In this application I run Kooks on my car because I like the ball and socket collector, and one peice mid pipes. The SW design uses a slip fit collector, and 3 piece clamp togethor mid pipes. I hate clamps with a passion as a personal preference, so I avoid them. Some people however may see it as an advantage since you can go between off road and catted by swapping the cat for a section of pipe on the SW's. The pictures below show the differences.

Raptor626 · 10-14-2011, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

Stainlessworks makes a good header no doubt. We sell a lot of their product, and I have no issue recommending it. I likely will even put them on my CTS-V. In this application I run Kooks on my car because I like the ball and socket collector, and one peice mid pipes. The SW design uses a slip fit collector, and 3 piece clamp togethor mid pipes. I hate clamps with a passion as a personal preference, so I avoid them. Some people however may see it as an advantage since you can go between off road and catted by swapping the cat for a section of pipe on the SW's. The pictures below show the differences.

I'm a sucker for shiny things.

Btw, I wanted to get the Kooks coated and I saw that you offered a wide selection of choices. My question though is, what does the titanium coating look like? It's either that or the sterling silver for me.

MarylandSpeed · 10-14-2011, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor626

I'm a sucker for shiny things.

Btw, I wanted to get the Kooks coated and I saw that you offered a wide selection of choices. My question though is, what does the titanium coating look like? It's either that or the sterling silver for me.

Titainum is just a fancy name for flat gray. We get people who order it..and think it is like actual titainum..haha. If you need some help this weekend, shoot me a PM..I think someone will be working tomorrow.

Raptor626 · 10-14-2011, 09:47 PM

LOL I feel like a kid in candy store looking at these.

I just can't wait to have the loudest thing in the neighborhood.

Raptor626 · 10-14-2011, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

Titainum is just a fancy name for flat gray. We get people who order it..and think it is like actual titainum..haha. If you need some help this weekend, shoot me a PM..I think someone will be working tomorrow.

Cool. I guess I'll go with the Sterling Silver!

Bay Area SS · 10-15-2011, 03:25 AM

I would go stepped for sure if the money is there. there is a reason most race cars run a tuned stepped header

Apex Chase · 10-15-2011, 05:42 AM

Stepped headers can produce more power over a standard header but, as Maryland Speed mentioned, proper design is critical. Give this article from our blog a read.

Step It Up With Stepped Headers

Raptor626 · 10-15-2011, 12:37 PM

So I read your link, Chase, and I have a question. I would like to get a cam and a set of heads next summer, therefore would a step from 1 3/4" - 17/8" be good enough for this, or should I get a 17/8" - 2" step?

Raptor626 · 10-15-2011, 12:38 PM

Also, MarylandSpeed, do you guys offer 17/8"-2" steps? I know I can get them custom from Kooks, but I was wondering if you guys could get them as well?

MarylandSpeed · 10-15-2011, 12:53 PM

1 7/8" stepped to 2" is not good for most cars. One of the way's a stepped header works is kind of like pinching a hose. Basically the smaller diameter primary pressurizes the exhaust gas. Then the bigger 1 7/8" primary allows the header to flow higher exhaust volume. The head port is less than 1 5/8"..so an initial 1 7/8" primary is too big to create the "pinch" effect on the exhaust gas. We run 1 3/4" stepped to 1 7/8" on our supercharged 2010 car..and before the new 417 we just put in, it made 635 rwhp

Kilo-9 · 10-15-2011, 03:55 PM

I'm assuming you stayed with the 1 3/4-1 7/8 stepped after the 417, too?

MarylandSpeed · 10-15-2011, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilo-9

I'm assuming you stayed with the 1 3/4-1 7/8 stepped after the 417, too?

Yup, Getting ready to redyno it next week. As stated above..they exhaust port is less than 1 5/8". I don't see how having 7-8" of Primary being 1 3/4" could be a restriction.

Ravener · 10-17-2011, 01:09 PM

I'm running Kook's stepped headers (Installed by Brandon's shop no less)and they were worth the cost for me.

Raptor626 · 10-17-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravener

I'm running Kook's stepped headers (Installed by Brandon's shop no less)and they were worth the cost for me.

What size steps are you running?

MarylandSpeed · 10-18-2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor626

What size steps are you running?

He has 1 3/4" stepped to 1 7/8"

Ravener · 10-19-2011, 12:05 PM

Yeah what he said

bannonm · 10-25-2011, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

My personal experiance is that a stepped header makes more power in pretty much every application we have tried it as long as it has been set up right.

What do you mean by "as long as it has been set up right"? Are you referring to the way it is made, or installed and tuned?

Raptor626 · 10-25-2011, 09:56 PM

He means that the steps need to be placed in precise locations relative to the exhaust ports.

14pilot · 10-25-2011, 10:25 PM

Pipe Diameters largely effect the exhaust blow down event when the valve opens and the high pressure gases rush out of the cylinder. The pipe lengths primarily effect the RPM range of the power band. The steps primary effect is on the wave scavenging effect of the gases after blow down ends.

So...

I plug the stock LS3 specs into my engine simulation software and get this:

Primaries:
First Step off the head - 1.625" dia. by 11" long
Second Step - 1.75" dia. by 8" long
Third Step - 2" dia. by 8" long

Collector:
2.625" choke point tapering out to 3.5" over 18" in length

Simulator says this would make 410 rwhp.

Anyone wanna build these and dyno them to check my math? LOL!!!

Raptor626 · 10-26-2011, 02:19 AM

^^ Ehh, I think they're worth it, especially when you decide to step up the mods.

10-14-2011, 08:14 PM	#1
Raptor626 Account Suspended Drives: 2011 Camaro SS Summit White Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Astoria, New York Posts: 803	Here we go. Stepped headers or uniform size? **NOT INTERESTED IN STARTING A THREAD ON WHICH PRIMARY SIZE IS BETTER/BEST FOR WHATEVER REASON*** All I want to know is if you'd rather go with headers that utilize a stepped setup (primaries start off one size, then enlarge) or a uniform setup (primaries start off one size and remain that size all the way to the collectors)? Thanks.

10-14-2011, 08:45 PM	#3
MarylandSpeed Drives: 2012 ZL1 & 2010 2SS/RS Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,267	Obviously you are going to get a lot of responses one way or another. My personal experiance is that a stepped header makes more power in pretty much every application we have tried it as long as it has been set up right. Let's be honest here..aside from the fact that it works, what other reason or advantage do I have to gain by bringing out a more expensive product in an already price sensitive market, that further confuses the buying decision for customer? Bottom line is..I want to offer the best products..and our experiance shows that a properly designed stepped header performs best. __________________ Phone- 443-730-9428 Now Offering Installs and Tuning! * Check Out Our New 2010 Camaro Section!

10-14-2011, 09:21 PM	#6
MarylandSpeed Drives: 2012 ZL1 & 2010 2SS/RS Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,267	Stainlessworks makes a good header no doubt. We sell a lot of their product, and I have no issue recommending it. I likely will even put them on my CTS-V. In this application I run Kooks on my car because I like the ball and socket collector, and one peice mid pipes. The SW design uses a slip fit collector, and 3 piece clamp togethor mid pipes. I hate clamps with a passion as a personal preference, so I avoid them. Some people however may see it as an advantage since you can go between off road and catted by swapping the cat for a section of pipe on the SW's. The pictures below show the differences. __________________ Phone- 443-730-9428 Now Offering Installs and Tuning! * Check Out Our New 2010 Camaro Section! Last edited by MarylandSpeed; 10-14-2011 at 09:32 PM.

10-15-2011, 03:25 AM	#11
Bay Area SS Drives: 2010 rs/2ss Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: ca bay area Posts: 669 View My Garage	I would go stepped for sure if the money is there. there is a reason most race cars run a tuned stepped header __________________ 1 7/8 long tubes full XS Power exhaust no cats, Rotofab CAI, PowderPro Ported TB, Hurst short throw, TSP 231 236 cam, tuned by Synergy Motorsports 454RWHP, 440 RWTQ. More to come!

10-15-2011, 05:42 AM	#12
Apex Chase Drives: it like I stole it. Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Louisville, Ky. Posts: 17,556	Stepped headers can produce more power over a standard header but, as Maryland Speed mentioned, proper design is critical. Give this article from our blog a read. Step It Up With Stepped Headers __________________ 502.930.2739 \| Contact By Email \|Facebook\|Twitter

10-14-2011, 08:40 PM	#2
blazzin1 Drives: 2010 2SS/RS Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: West Fargo, ND Posts: 3,273 View My Garage	Yeah sure, why not, the stepped header has been proven to be beneficial. Unfortunately, they're too expensive. But if money was no object...yes I would.

10-14-2011, 09:13 PM	#5
blazzin1 Drives: 2010 2SS/RS Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: West Fargo, ND Posts: 3,273 View My Garage	Don't forget about Stainless Works!!! They're just as good as the other two.....and it may not be on their website, but they do make a 1-7/8" to 2" stepped header. Not sure about prices, but I'm pretty sure they're a bit more expensive than the Kooks.

10-14-2011, 09:47 PM	#9
Raptor626 Account Suspended Drives: 2011 Camaro SS Summit White Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Astoria, New York Posts: 803	LOL I feel like a kid in candy store looking at these. I just can't wait to have the loudest thing in the neighborhood.

10-15-2011, 12:37 PM	#13
Raptor626 Account Suspended Drives: 2011 Camaro SS Summit White Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Astoria, New York Posts: 803	So I read your link, Chase, and I have a question. I would like to get a cam and a set of heads next summer, therefore would a step from 1 3/4" - 17/8" be good enough for this, or should I get a 17/8" - 2" step?

10-15-2011, 12:38 PM	#14
Raptor626 Account Suspended Drives: 2011 Camaro SS Summit White Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Astoria, New York Posts: 803	Also, MarylandSpeed, do you guys offer 17/8"-2" steps? I know I can get them custom from Kooks, but I was wondering if you guys could get them as well?

10-15-2011, 12:53 PM	#15
MarylandSpeed Drives: 2012 ZL1 & 2010 2SS/RS Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,267	1 7/8" stepped to 2" is not good for most cars. One of the way's a stepped header works is kind of like pinching a hose. Basically the smaller diameter primary pressurizes the exhaust gas. Then the bigger 1 7/8" primary allows the header to flow higher exhaust volume. The head port is less than 1 5/8"..so an initial 1 7/8" primary is too big to create the "pinch" effect on the exhaust gas. We run 1 3/4" stepped to 1 7/8" on our supercharged 2010 car..and before the new 417 we just put in, it made 635 rwhp __________________ Phone- 443-730-9428 Now Offering Installs and Tuning! * Check Out Our New 2010 Camaro Section!

10-15-2011, 03:55 PM	#16
Kilo-9 Dog Is My Copilot Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,386	I'm assuming you stayed with the 1 3/4-1 7/8 stepped after the 417, too? __________________

10-17-2011, 01:09 PM	#18
Ravener Drives: 2010 2SS RS M6 Blk Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Md Posts: 220	I'm running Kook's stepped headers (Installed by Brandon's shop no less)and they were worth the cost for me. __________________ G6X3 cam,Vararam, Kooks stepped LT's, Kooks Hi-Flo cats and 2.5" street sleeper cat back, ported TB, 18% UDP, 12.63 @ 117 (pre-cam).

10-19-2011, 12:05 PM	#21
Ravener Drives: 2010 2SS RS M6 Blk Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Md Posts: 220	Yeah what he said __________________ G6X3 cam,Vararam, Kooks stepped LT's, Kooks Hi-Flo cats and 2.5" street sleeper cat back, ported TB, 18% UDP, 12.63 @ 117 (pre-cam).

10-25-2011, 09:56 PM	#23
Raptor626 Account Suspended Drives: 2011 Camaro SS Summit White Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Astoria, New York Posts: 803	He means that the steps need to be placed in precise locations relative to the exhaust ports.

10-26-2011, 02:19 AM	#25
Raptor626 Account Suspended Drives: 2011 Camaro SS Summit White Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Astoria, New York Posts: 803	^^ Ehh, I think they're worth it, especially when you decide to step up the mods.

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