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Old 10-14-2011, 09:14 PM   #1
Raptor626
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Question Here we go. Stepped headers or uniform size?

****NOT INTERESTED IN STARTING A THREAD ON WHICH PRIMARY SIZE IS BETTER/BEST FOR WHATEVER REASON*****


All I want to know is if you'd rather go with headers that utilize a stepped setup (primaries start off one size, then enlarge) or a uniform setup (primaries start off one size and remain that size all the way to the collectors)?



Thanks.
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:40 PM   #2
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Yeah sure, why not, the stepped header has been proven to be beneficial. Unfortunately, they're too expensive. But if money was no object...yes I would.
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:45 PM   #3
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Obviously you are going to get a lot of responses one way or another. My personal experiance is that a stepped header makes more power in pretty much every application we have tried it as long as it has been set up right. Let's be honest here..aside from the fact that it works, what other reason or advantage do I have to gain by bringing out a more expensive product in an already price sensitive market, that further confuses the buying decision for customer? Bottom line is..I want to offer the best products..and our experiance shows that a properly designed stepped header performs best.
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:47 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by blazzin1 View Post
Yeah sure, why not, the stepped header has been proven to be beneficial. Unfortunately, they're too expensive. But if money was no object...yes I would.

Actually, MarylandSpeed has a pretty good price on Kooks stepped headers. That's actually why I posed this question. The difference was only like $300, which I don't think is much.


I'm actually in the same boat as another member on here. I can't decide which to go with, ARH or Kooks. They're both great fabricators, and the guys at Kooks actually worked at ARH if I'm not mistaken. So, with that said, let's assume that the quality is comparable. The next deciding factor would be price. I live about 30min from the actual ARH shop and am a member of NY5thGEN, so I would get a pretty good deal on purchase/install.

HOWEVER! If I can get Kooks stepped headers, which make more power and will cost me about the same as an ARH setup, why not?


Thanks blazzin.

And MarylandSpeed, you might be getting a call from me in the very near future.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:13 PM   #5
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Don't forget about Stainless Works!!! They're just as good as the other two.....and it may not be on their website, but they do make a 1-7/8" to 2" stepped header. Not sure about prices, but I'm pretty sure they're a bit more expensive than the Kooks.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:21 PM   #6
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Stainlessworks makes a good header no doubt. We sell a lot of their product, and I have no issue recommending it. I likely will even put them on my CTS-V. In this application I run Kooks on my car because I like the ball and socket collector, and one peice mid pipes. The SW design uses a slip fit collector, and 3 piece clamp togethor mid pipes. I hate clamps with a passion as a personal preference, so I avoid them. Some people however may see it as an advantage since you can go between off road and catted by swapping the cat for a section of pipe on the SW's. The pictures below show the differences.


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Last edited by MarylandSpeed; 10-14-2011 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Stainlessworks makes a good header no doubt. We sell a lot of their product, and I have no issue recommending it. I likely will even put them on my CTS-V. In this application I run Kooks on my car because I like the ball and socket collector, and one peice mid pipes. The SW design uses a slip fit collector, and 3 piece clamp togethor mid pipes. I hate clamps with a passion as a personal preference, so I avoid them. Some people however may see it as an advantage since you can go between off road and catted by swapping the cat for a section of pipe on the SW's. The pictures below show the differences.



I'm a sucker for shiny things.

Btw, I wanted to get the Kooks coated and I saw that you offered a wide selection of choices. My question though is, what does the titanium coating look like? It's either that or the sterling silver for me.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:46 PM   #8
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I'm a sucker for shiny things.

Btw, I wanted to get the Kooks coated and I saw that you offered a wide selection of choices. My question though is, what does the titanium coating look like? It's either that or the sterling silver for me.
Titainum is just a fancy name for flat gray. We get people who order it..and think it is like actual titainum..haha. If you need some help this weekend, shoot me a PM..I think someone will be working tomorrow.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:47 PM   #9
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LOL I feel like a kid in candy store looking at these.

I just can't wait to have the loudest thing in the neighborhood.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Titainum is just a fancy name for flat gray. We get people who order it..and think it is like actual titainum..haha. If you need some help this weekend, shoot me a PM..I think someone will be working tomorrow.
Cool. I guess I'll go with the Sterling Silver!
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Old 10-15-2011, 04:25 AM   #11
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I would go stepped for sure if the money is there. there is a reason most race cars run a tuned stepped header
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:42 AM   #12
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Stepped headers can produce more power over a standard header but, as Maryland Speed mentioned, proper design is critical. Give this article from our blog a read.

Step It Up With Stepped Headers
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:37 PM   #13
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So I read your link, Chase, and I have a question. I would like to get a cam and a set of heads next summer, therefore would a step from 1 3/4" - 17/8" be good enough for this, or should I get a 17/8" - 2" step?
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:38 PM   #14
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Also, MarylandSpeed, do you guys offer 17/8"-2" steps? I know I can get them custom from Kooks, but I was wondering if you guys could get them as well?
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:53 PM   #15
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1 7/8" stepped to 2" is not good for most cars. One of the way's a stepped header works is kind of like pinching a hose. Basically the smaller diameter primary pressurizes the exhaust gas. Then the bigger 1 7/8" primary allows the header to flow higher exhaust volume. The head port is less than 1 5/8"..so an initial 1 7/8" primary is too big to create the "pinch" effect on the exhaust gas. We run 1 3/4" stepped to 1 7/8" on our supercharged 2010 car..and before the new 417 we just put in, it made 635 rwhp
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Old 10-15-2011, 04:55 PM   #16
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I'm assuming you stayed with the 1 3/4-1 7/8 stepped after the 417, too?
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:13 PM   #17
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I'm assuming you stayed with the 1 3/4-1 7/8 stepped after the 417, too?
Yup, Getting ready to redyno it next week. As stated above..they exhaust port is less than 1 5/8". I don't see how having 7-8" of Primary being 1 3/4" could be a restriction.
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:09 PM   #18
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I'm running Kook's stepped headers (Installed by Brandon's shop no less)and they were worth the cost for me.
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:46 PM   #19
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I'm running Kook's stepped headers (Installed by Brandon's shop no less)and they were worth the cost for me.

What size steps are you running?
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:40 PM   #20
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What size steps are you running?
He has 1 3/4" stepped to 1 7/8"
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:05 PM   #21
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Yeah what he said
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
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My personal experiance is that a stepped header makes more power in pretty much every application we have tried it as long as it has been set up right.
What do you mean by "as long as it has been set up right"? Are you referring to the way it is made, or installed and tuned?
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:56 PM   #23
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He means that the steps need to be placed in precise locations relative to the exhaust ports.
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:25 PM   #24
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Pipe Diameters largely effect the exhaust blow down event when the valve opens and the high pressure gases rush out of the cylinder. The pipe lengths primarily effect the RPM range of the power band. The steps primary effect is on the wave scavenging effect of the gases after blow down ends.

So...

I plug the stock LS3 specs into my engine simulation software and get this:

Primaries:
First Step off the head - 1.625" dia. by 11" long
Second Step - 1.75" dia. by 8" long
Third Step - 2" dia. by 8" long

Collector:
2.625" choke point tapering out to 3.5" over 18" in length

Simulator says this would make 410 rwhp.

Anyone wanna build these and dyno them to check my math? LOL!!!
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:19 AM   #25
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^^ Ehh, I think they're worth it, especially when you decide to step up the mods.
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