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Old 10-18-2011, 10:25 AM   #1
rockrau
 
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Roll centers

Does anyone have dimentions of the front and rear roll centers on as stock 2SS with 20" wheels ? Also center of gravity ?
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:43 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by rockrau View Post
Does anyone have dimentions of the front and rear roll centers on as stock 2SS with 20" wheels ? Also center of gravity ?
Hello,

What are you looking to accomplish? Please provide some detail and I'll see what we can come up with.

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
888.308.6007
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:39 PM   #3
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I am looking into suspension mods.If I know where I am,I can better understand where I am going.I do not want to just swap parts,I want to learn.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:33 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by rockrau View Post
I am looking into suspension mods.If I know where I am,I can better understand where I am going.I do not want to just swap parts,I want to learn.
This should help http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...t=book+pedders
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Old 10-20-2011, 01:42 AM   #5
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If you are real serious about this find a ship that has a set of scales. Some parts sellers thought I was crazy for asking. These cars seem to be pretty sensitive to changes in weight distribution. It was worth it for mlee to scale his and found out why his car was not tracking straight. The spring install failed and he didn't know it until the car went on the scales. The weight distribution will tell all.

Here is the link

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...ghlight=scales
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Old 10-20-2011, 09:09 AM   #6
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I understand corner weights are important(I viewed the link) in car setup.Also I have read "The Book" and plan on a Pedders kit in March.Had a good phone conversion with Rob at Wretched MS past Spring but a rotator cuff injury put things on hold.I enjoy doing things myself and learning .Want to know where I am now to better understand where I am going.Shure I could figure it out myself(there are books),but I am shure better and more qualified men have allready done the work, or is the info. TOP SECRET ?Haha!
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:09 PM   #7
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It would be good info to have. Unless the manufacturers want to keep that info to themselves. If they have it availible (Which im sure they do) why not share it? For those who understand the information or want to learn more, they could make better decisions in chassis/suspension tuning after they have bought the parts and installed them.

This forum is a bit lacking in the technical department. Alot of info is on LS1 Tech as far as motor and drivetrain is concearned that applies to our platform. Alot of stuff is specific to our vehicle though, especially when it comes to suspension and that info really should be here on Camaro 5. Afterall this is the "Go To" Forum for 5th gens.
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Old 10-20-2011, 02:49 PM   #8
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It's a really big question you're asking here... not only because of the variables that go into calculating roll center, but in all honesty the usefulness of only one data point. Any braking, acceleration or rolling moments on the chassis are going to change the position of your roll centers. And while the roll centers at static ride height can be useful, what's actually useful is how the roll centers behave while the car is in motion. The best analogy I can make off the top of my head is if you're selecting an aftermarket cam based on it's Torque output at 2000rpm at 20% throttle. It may be a potentially useful data point, but it's really only one tiny piece of the puzzle.

That being said, we are putting something together which may be useful. Stay tuned!

Last edited by PfadtRacing; 10-20-2011 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 10-20-2011, 03:40 PM   #9
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Well, after doing the calculations the static roll centers are as follows:

Front Roll Center Height: 124mm assuming...
0 degrees roll
0 degrees pitch
Stock ride height

Rear Roll Center Height: 78mm assuming...
0 degrees roll
0 degrees pitch
Stock ride height

Modeling the roll centers under dynamic conditions and interpreting the results is where the math starts to become useful. One interesting fact about the Camaro when looking at the roll centers is as you lower the ride height and CG of the car, the change in roll centers render the sway bars proportionally a little less effective. One more reason why taking a strong look at a sway bar pacakage is a great idea when purchasing a drop spring kit.

The ability to crunch this data is one reason why an actual engineering firm is an extremely valuable resource to purchase parts from. All of our parts can be quantified as effective the way we want them to before parts are prototyped, and having access to GM CAD models allows our engineers to design parts optimized for strength and weight that will fit properly every time.
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Old 10-21-2011, 08:11 AM   #10
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roll center

Roll center is what you make it for your specific goal.
Roll center is good to be adjusted for specific applications. From oval track to dirt track adjustments could be made. Drag racing is different from a road race car. Depending on the components that are on your car you may want to raise it or lower it depending on tire setup and a whole array of factors. As stated before. Being able to use the CAD data directly from GM allows our engineering team to create products of high quality that fit like the OEM parts. I think it is great you want to learn how this stuff works. It is always a good feeling knowing that your hard work is put into something that is rewarding you for it.

Here is a snap shot of our new rear sway bar we are developing for the new 2012 SS. Just from the picture alone you can see how its starts to get complicated in designing a bar that will work in a way to improve performance. Especially when the platform is good to begin with.
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Old 10-24-2011, 11:31 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by PfadtRacing View Post
One interesting fact about the Camaro when looking at the roll centers is as you lower the ride height and CG of the car, the change in roll centers render the sway bars proportionally a little less effective. One more reason why taking a strong look at a sway bar pacakage is a great idea when purchasing a drop spring kit.
You guys are right on. Basically, any time you drop a car with a McPherson strut, the roll center drops further than the CG. So you have a reduced roll moment with a lower CG (GOOD) but a significantly lower roll center which reduces the effective roll stiffness(bad). In other words, you potential drop your car but INCREASE the amount of roll generated per G force.

Example: You lower car 1 inch so you reduce the CG height 1 inch. The roll center may drop 2 inches at the same time. So to get your roll stiffness back to the level you started with you need stiffer springs and/or stiffer anti-roll bar. Typically, strut suspensions want to have a lot of roll stiffness relative to double a arm because dynamically, the roll center moves further down and away as the car rolls creating a digressive roll stiffness. Not to mention that struts have terrible camber gain in roll/bump.

Our air suspension kits use very progressive rate air springs so the more you roll, the stiffer they get which does a great job of combating excessive roll. As mentioned above, adding anti-roll bars to any lowering kit is a great idea and will help you maintain crisp steering response as well as managing roll and allowing fine tuning of the over/understeer balance!

Hope this info adds to the discussion.
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:25 AM   #12
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Could be why Pedders bars came out of the box with the 5th Gen so strong...
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