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Old 10-19-2011, 12:25 AM   #1
GoldenBear
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ZL1 Production -- Will It Be Sufficient?

What concerns me the most right now about the ZL1 is not the color choices or lack thereof, or the details of pricing. My biggest concern at the moment regarding the ZL1 is allocation/production versus demand.

I am concerned that there could be many long time Camaro enthusiasts who will not be able to find a dealer with a ZL1 allocation that will sell the ZL1 at MSRP. With indications that there will be dealers that will receive an allocation of zero 2012 ZL1s, it appears that it could be a real possibility that many will be unable to secure a ZL1 when desired.

With all of the delays so far incurred since the introduction of the 5th Gen Camaro concept vehicle with respect to the production of the ZL1, I don't want to see enthusiasts denied the opportunity to obtain a ZL1 at MSRP.

Since initial indications were that Chevrolet would meet market demand with respect to ZL1 production, I'd like to know when it will be possible to walk into any dealership and walk out with a successfully placed customer sold order for a ZL1. With the ability to produce over 80,000 Camaros per year, what is the reason why Chevrolet wouldn't be able to meet annual customer demand for the ZL1?

Considering that we've waited so long already, I'm afraid if there aren't enough ZL1s available, many, tired of waiting, will eventually turn to other vehicles.

Here's to hoping that Chevrolet does not end up letting Camaro enthusiasts down with respect to adequate ZL1 production.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:28 AM   #2
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Since it is going to be close to 60K I do not think they are going to have a huge problem. I mean allot of us here say yes we are getting one but when that final price comes out some may change their mind. Plus is a bank going to loan you the money for a car that expensive?

I hope it is not that high but it is not going to be a 45-50K car (wish it was). I am hoping when I get my wifes 800.00 a month Acura payed off in 2012 I will then be able to get a 2013 ZL1. Seeing one on the lot will be doubtfull for a long time but ordering one should not take much longer than when you order you car now.
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:14 AM   #3
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Wouldnt it be nice if GM would produce ALL the ZL1's initially that consumers put money d9own on? This way, they would not be overproducing, and could eliminate fears of supply. Just give us in the front loop a little encouragement?


Im all for the 9 - 9 - 9 PLAN
9 ZL1's per dealer IF they get the firm orders by the 29th (no risk to dealers for the most part!)
(why cant GM produce FIRM orders with cash deposits without limitation with lead time? if orders are placed by say 29th)
9th of Feb Delivery
9 more days to place order ??

I know I don't understand the allocation/production process, so just give me a little consideration just for the FIRM order portion of this vs production limits.??
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:24 AM   #4
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Quote:
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Seeing one on the lot will be doubtfull for a long time but ordering one should not take much longer than when you order you car now.
I don't expect to see ZL1s sitting on dealers lots anytime soon, if at all, as one currently does with LTs or SSs.

What I think is reasonable with regard to ZL1 availability is that a customer should be able to walk into one's local Chevrolet dealership and successfully place a customer sold order without any difficultly. I don't see a valid reason why Chevrolet should not be able to make that happen. If there is such a reason, I'd like to know what it is.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:35 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by GoldenBear View Post
What I think is reasonable with regard to ZL1 availability is that a customer should be able to walk into one's local Chevrolet dealership and successfully place a customer sold order without any difficultly. I don't see a valid reason why Chevrolet should not be able to make that happen. If there is such a reason, I'd like to know what it is.
YUUUP!! It would be nice to have that confidence bestowed upon us. It may be that the mid year intro leave everyone from the customer, the dealer, and production all trying to thread that needle! But, a firm order cutoff date for 2012 knowing they could and would build THAT car would be nice.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:45 AM   #6
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What concerns me the most right now about the ZL1 is not the color choices or lack thereof, or the details of pricing. My biggest concern at the moment regarding the ZL1 is allocation/production versus demand.

I am concerned that there could be many long time Camaro enthusiasts who will not be able to find a dealer with a ZL1 allocation that will sell the ZL1 at MSRP. With indications that there will be dealers that will receive an allocation of zero 2012 ZL1s, it appears that it could be a real possibility that many will be unable to secure a ZL1 when desired.

With all of the delays so far incurred since the introduction of the 5th Gen Camaro concept vehicle with respect to the production of the ZL1, I don't want to see enthusiasts denied the opportunity to obtain a ZL1 at MSRP.

Since initial indications were that Chevrolet would meet market demand with respect to ZL1 production, I'd like to know when it will be possible to walk into any dealership and walk out with a successfully placed customer sold order for a ZL1. With the ability to produce over 80,000 Camaros per year, what is the reason why Chevrolet wouldn't be able to meet annual customer demand for the ZL1?

Considering that we've waited so long already, I'm afraid if there aren't enough ZL1s available, many, tired of waiting, will eventually turn to other vehicles.

Here's to hoping that Chevrolet does not end up letting Camaro enthusiasts down with respect to adequate ZL1 production.
Welcome to the world of supply and demand. Unfortunately, because of it's limited availability at the beginning of the production run, securing an allocation, let alone at MSRP, is going to be difficult. IMO, if you want to be one of the first to buy one of these cars, you will likely have to be willing to pay the ADM's to do so. From this aspect, the ZL1 is no different than what transpired with the 1st model-year GT500's/SRT8 Challengers. Eventually, demand will likely decrease and production will catch up. If you're patient, it is likely if you want one of these cars in your garage, you will be able to do so.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:47 AM   #7
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I really do not see it being any different than when the 2010's finally got to market. There was a huge demand for LT's and SS's. The factory could not build them fast enough, some dealers charged over MSRP some below. The same thing happened with the convertibles but to a lesser degree because there is simply not as big a demand for convertibles as coupes. Right now dealers have both sitting on their lots 2011's and 2012's. The ZL1 will most likely be the same as the others. It will be difficult to keep up with INITIAL demand and it will be a shortened build year since it is starting in Jan. instead of July. Some dealers will sell above MSRP and some will sell at MSRP but again the demand will not be as much OVERALL because of the higher price point. More people can afford a $28,000 LT than can afford a $38,000 SS than can afford a $50,000+ ZL1. And in all reality most of us that are buying a ZL1 really do not need 580HP, magnetic ride and launch control to take the kids to school or go to work. Eventually supply and demand will equal out, my guess will be the towards the end of the 2013 run and definitely the end of the 2014 model year.
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:12 AM   #8
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I'm sure it's going to be particularly tough through the 2012 MY. I have no idea how the allocations will work out, but I'm sure it's going to be really tough to get MSRP. I'm sure that will relax a little more in '13 and on. GM can stand to lose the customers they say they want to bring over from other brands, but if they don't make enough cars to fulfill the "faithful's" demand, why would outside buyers want to wait. They probably should've just waited to call it a '13, but I believe part of the reason to stick to '12 is for CAMARO's 45th. I can't blame them.

With all due respect to anyone and everyone: I know that we've been waiting a super-long time. It's been tough - delays with SS and V6 models, ragtops, then the 5.0 coming along and doing very well, then the annoucement from the Dearborn bunch about the return of their Supervisor... It's easy for people to point to the Dearborn car and say they are on point and are making cars for everyone and all that. They didn't have some of the stumbling blocks CAMARO has had to endure. The biggest of which I think were back in '02 when CAMARO was on a little vacation until it's return in '09, and then with the money trouble that still effects everyone today. The 5th Gen is a new car and with the vacation, development fell short, relative to the Philly. GM's been fighting to continually improve CAMARO since it's return, changes with HUD, back-up alert systems, Synergy model, and other goodies I can't think of in '11, and even more developments for suspension, engines, and more luxuries in '12 for existing models, let along a completely updated (33% on top of SS) ZL1. It's not like they're being lazy. Making improvements to the ENTIRE line in '12 in addtion to bringing ZL1 on probably really pushed the limits of Team CAMARO (I don't know for sure because I don't know them and I don't pretend to). GM's given us several development videos for ZL1 alone - we haven' seen any for LFX or SS's goodies, but those were made, too.

My point is only ask to try to consider the big picture (which I struggle with). Not everyone is going to be able to afford ZL1, and those than can, probably won't be getting one at MSRP, let alone anytime for the '12 model year. The plant is starting production about the end of this calendar year, and there aren't many months going into '12 where they're going to be producing ZL1 for the '12 MY, so it's really not too likely there are going to be a lot of '12s out there to grab. The good thing is that I'm sure we're going to have at least a few years where this beast is going to be available. The writing's on the wall for how long we're going to be able to get cars like this.

This is an excellent topic - I just don't want it to turn into a lot of bashing
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:29 AM   #9
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Not bashing, simple supply and demand; they don't make enough, people will go elsewhere, whether that be another Chevy or GM product, or a Ford, Dodge, etc. Yes there are some people who will only dirve brand X, however, I think there are just as many, if not more who will say " I want a high performance car, in the $xx,000 range" and when they are ready to buy, they will buy. If the ZL1 is unavailable, or inflated in price due to artificially low supply and dealer's looking to maximize profit, then people will spend their dollars elsewhere. Free market can bite a company just as easily as help it.
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:32 AM   #10
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I am really thinking about getting one but I am a little scared of Price Gouging. I am going to wait at least a year after the first hits the streets before I get one. I wanted one instantly but I am going to sit back and wait it out.
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:37 AM   #11
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enough is never enough.. price wont matter there wont be enough of them to meet demand unless it's a 75,000 car ( which it wont be)
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:10 AM   #12
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Well not paying over MSRP which we VERBALLY agreed upon. If that does not happen oh well, I wait a few more months if I have to. It's possible
that if we get a really nasty winter this year, the ZL1 would be sitting in
storage for a couple of months. That would be a killer for me as well not
being able to drive it. Plus if I have too wait a couple more months, I'll have more funds in the bank come pick up time.

Just trying to put a positive spin on things, sometimes reading these posts
get a bit depressing .
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:14 AM   #13
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It seems pretty easy to me, though it's not the most convenient:

If you don't want to pay above MSRP, then wait. Please - I'm not trying to sound like an @$$ or be a jerk They can't rape you if you don't let them. Unfortunately - GM can't do anything about what the dealer tries to sell the car for. I encourage everyone to wait, because if some of you let those dealers take advantage of you, it's not helping the cause of the Community. If it doesn't sell at their mark-up, they'll be forced to lower the price, or just not sell the car until the market is more saturated. I know no one wants to wait (neither do I), however, we control the market. It's hard when it's such a great car :( Everyone will have their chance though
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:05 PM   #14
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It seems pretty easy to me, though it's not the most convenient:

If you don't want to pay above MSRP, then wait. Please - I'm not trying to sound like an @$$ or be a jerk They can't rape you if you don't let them. Unfortunately - GM can't do anything about what the dealer tries to sell the car for. I encourage everyone to wait, because if some of you let those dealers take advantage of you, it's not helping the cause of the Community. If it doesn't sell at their mark-up, they'll be forced to lower the price, or just not sell the car until the market is more saturated. I know no one wants to wait (neither do I), however, we control the market. It's hard when it's such a great car :( Everyone will have their chance though
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:47 PM   #15
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It seems pretty easy to me, though it's not the most convenient:

If you don't want to pay above MSRP, then wait. Please - I'm not trying to sound like an @$$ or be a jerk They can't rape you if you don't let them.

Wait, yes, if forced, but don’t roll over and die just yet. Let the dealer know why you didn’t buy it now if they want to add a markup.

Next week I plan to agree on a price relative to (less than or equal to) MSRP before I order. I won’t order if I can’t get the dealer to agree to this. If the dealer agrees but come delivery decides to increase the price, ‘my’ ZL1 will sit on their lot or sell at their markup but they will know how unhappy I am. I’ll then proceed to rape them via negative feedback in every way I know how. If that happens I’ll be getting a 2013 or 2014.

You might be surprised… I’ve walked out of stores before only to be called back after they’ve decided to make a sale at a lower profit vs. not making a sale at all. It will be an interesting few months here.
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:47 PM   #16
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It seems pretty easy to me, though it's not the most convenient:

If you don't want to pay above MSRP, then wait. Please - I'm not trying to sound like an @$$ or be a jerk They can't rape you if you don't let them. Unfortunately - GM can't do anything about what the dealer tries to sell the car for. I encourage everyone to wait, because if some of you let those dealers take advantage of you, it's not helping the cause of the Community. If it doesn't sell at their mark-up, they'll be forced to lower the price, or just not sell the car until the market is more saturated. I know no one wants to wait (neither do I), however, we control the market. It's hard when it's such a great car :( Everyone will have their chance though
Waiting, or purchasing a different vehicle, may well be the only options for some who aren't willing to pay above MSRP. My concern is that there may be a disconnect between potential customer expectations of ZL1 availability and the actual number of 2012 ZL1s produced, given that we were told that ZL1s would be produced in numbers to meet market demand, and the apparent reality that the abbreviated production.run of 2012 ZL1s will be limited. Some may get tired of waiting and of the uncertainty of availability, and decide that without any clear availability road map they must move forward with a different vehicle.

It would be a helpful clarification if GM would indicate at what point in time one will be able to order a ZL1 from the dealer of one's choice without any restrictions on GM's part, as that is the expectation that GM has given its customers with respect to the ZL1. It is difficult for one to make informed decisions without having a reasonable level of certainty regarding future events.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:00 PM   #17
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I can understand your concern, but let's face the reality that GM is going to be producing this car on the same assembly line at the base and SS versions. That being the case, they will only be able to produce so many ZL1's per shift. Considering that GM is going to make the bulk of their money on the sales of the non-ZL1 versions, it would crazy for them to reduce production of those cars just to get more of the upper trim-level, especially when they have not yet determined how well the pricier version is going to move.

Again, I feel anyone who wants a ZL1 will eventually be able to get one, but it might not be one of the firson units or, for that matter, even a 2012 model.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:04 PM   #18
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I am sure that Chevy would love to know just how many ZL1 orders will be placed on the 29th. I am sure that they have a possible range, example (4000 to 5000) but what ever the number is it still has to be included with all of the other orders for SS's and LT's built on the same line. I am hoping ZL1's will get initial production preference starting in Jan. but they can't just only make ZL1's and not the others. Then there are the suppliers that make all of the pieces (33% upgraded) that are ZL1 specific keeping up with the initial demand also. No matter what, it is going to be a tough wait.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:06 PM   #19
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Remember, good things come to those who wait. Of course, sometimes good things come sooner to those with a significant amount of disposable income!
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:13 PM   #20
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There is no way I will pay above MSRP for a car, never have done it and never will. MSRP is a number that dealers can work with and always will. Once you get above the 30k vehicles up in the 40's, 50's and 60's they have a lot of wiggle room between that MSRP and invoice so you would be a fool if you let them take advantage of you. I am going to wait because I heard that the ZL1's are going to be going for MSRP + roughly 10% from one of my friends and if this is true NO THANKS. I will wait till I can get one for MSRP - 1%.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:13 PM   #21
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Remember, good things come to those who wait.
That's why I'm waiting to order a 2013 ZL1 convertible.

However, I feel that the may be others who won't be willing to wait, as they feel they've waited long enough already, and GM will lose sales to those individuals because those who won't wait without an availability road map or aren't willing to pay above MSRP will choose from the other options that are currently available.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:16 PM   #22
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And just to add to this the same person that told me that they are going to be selling for MSRP + 10% said they expect to sell them for between 65k-70k when MSRP is expected to be 59.9K
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:27 PM   #23
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That's why I'm waiting to order a 2013 ZL1 convertible.

However, I feel that the may be others who won't be willing to wait, as they feel they've waited long enough already, and GM will lose sales to those individuals because those who won't wait without an availability road map or aren't willing to pay above MSRP will choose from the other options that are currently available.
I guess I wonder why, as an individual, this would even be a concern? If someone elects to purchase something other than a ZL1 because they are impatient or fickle, why would that even matter? It's not like you are losing the sale. I know this car is impressive, but I doubt GM's overall business future is tried to ZL1 sales or lack thereof.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:38 PM   #24
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Well on a positive note here. By the time the 2012 Zl1's will be going into
production some time in the first quarter of 2013. All the other camaro's
for the model year 2012 will have been already in production for 6 like months. Meaning the the dealers will already have ample inventory of those cars on there lots . Plus the fact that winter time is NOT the best time to sell cars. This would lead me to believe that they will be producing alot more of the ZL1's during the first quarter of
next year.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:47 PM   #25
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Im pretty laid back on this situation to be honest.... I have a set monthly payment which equals under 60K total for the car. I will tell the dealer I dont give a crap about anything else, you can mark it up, fudge the numbers, do whatever, just as long as my payment is not over my set monthly budget.
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