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Old 12-18-2011, 09:09 PM   #1
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GM Authority Site Poll - Would the Camaro be a better sports car if it were lighter?

Would the Camaro be a better sports car if it were lighter?

At the link below is a poll asking if the Camaro should be put on a diet


http://gmauthority.com/
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Old 12-18-2011, 09:25 PM   #2
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I think lighter is generally better but comes with trade offs. I personally think the weight is no big deal but that's just me.
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZLone View Post
Would the Camaro be a better sports car if it were lighter?

At the link below is a poll asking if the Camaro should be put on a diet


http://gmauthority.com/
Any sports car, or any car for that matter, would be better if it was lighter.
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:57 PM   #4
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That's like saying "should the sun come up tomorrow???"


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Old 12-18-2011, 10:59 PM   #5
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I would see that this way , get a bag of 50 lb and put that on the back of a athlete lets say a sprinter , then clock him from standstill to 50 yards , and till he stops , do the same test without weigh and see what happen , it's called inertia and moment , in another words it takes more effort to start moving and more time to slow it down [ just before turns] it means brakes will have to be applied early on on a heavier car .My 2 cents .
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:04 PM   #6
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Yes, it's a little on the heavy side for a sportscar. I am being diplomatic.
They really need a poll for this?
The better question would be
Are you willing to trade off some luxury for better performance?


Here are some ideas to lighten your sportscar.
Select the options you are willing to delete:
Air Conditioning
Radio
Excess air bags
Back seat
Passenger seat
Rear exit exhaust
Some lighting and wiring
Electric windows
Spare tire/flat tire kit

Select the items you would pay extra for:
Carbon fiber hood doors trunk
Lightweight glass
Race wheels & tires
Lithium battery
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZLone View Post
Would the Camaro be a better sports car if it were lighter?

At the link below is a poll asking if the Camaro should be put on a diet


http://gmauthority.com/



Not necessarily.

Dirigibles are light, but neither fast nor nimble.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
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Not necessarily.

Dirigibles are light, but neither fast nor nimble.
But not a sports car, more like an air ship

An yes it could use a diet.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:54 AM   #9
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And coming next week:
Will the Camaro be a better sports car with more power?

And the week after that:
Will the Camaro be a better sports car with wider tires?

And after that:
Will the Camaro be a better sports car with a more responsive suspension?

And after that:
Will the Camaro be a better sports car with more of its weight towards the rear?


There are plenty of ways that the Camaro could be improved upon, if thats the only thing you're considering. But when you're juggling 100 parameters to make a even the simplest of decisions making one area better can easily hurt something else that you're trying to do (like keep cost low)

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfriend View Post
I would see that this way , get a bag of 50 lb and put that on the back of a athlete lets say a sprinter , then clock him from standstill to 50 yards , and till he stops , do the same test without weigh and see what happen , it's called inertia and moment , in another words it takes more effort to start moving and more time to slow it down [ just before turns] it means brakes will have to be applied early on on a heavier car .My 2 cents .
Ok ... now, take a ~5'10, 150 lb runner and give him 50 lbs of extra muscle mass rather than dead weight and see how he runs. He's gunna be faster.

Its not just pure mass that affects things. Where it is, and what its doing there play an even bigger role than its mere existence. I'm getting kinda tired of people thinking of the weight on the Camaro as 'flab'. Sure, its heavy. But I think of it more as being heavy like an NFL linebacker rather than an armchair quarterback. It not there due to laziness ... it serves a purpose.

The Camaro is heavy due to a number of things. First, its a very stiff chassis. This helps with not only safety (remember that the Camaro aced the 2012 NHTSA safety tests) but it also improves the handling. When the body doesn't flex, the suspension can work better. To pull that mass out you have to either A) switch to more expensive materials B) reduce the strength C) make the car much smaller. Personally, I don't think any of those options are all that great.

There's also the independent rear suspension. Improving handling ability, ride quality, and weight distribution (and possibly centre of gravity ... not sure on that one though). Yes, it adds 150 lbs but it helps more than it hurts.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:58 AM   #10
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No it's not a Z06 or ZR1 but it's sure going to be a fun car to drive!! A poor man who needs a back seat and Vette technology will be buying this car. Like me.
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:23 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Scarrzz View Post
Not necessarily.

Dirigibles are light, but neither fast nor nimble.

Oh the humanity of it all......
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
And coming next week:
Will the Camaro be a better sports car with more power?

And the week after that:
Will the Camaro be a better sports car with wider tires?

And after that:
Will the Camaro be a better sports car with a more responsive suspension?

And after that:
Will the Camaro be a better sports car with more of its weight towards the rear?


There are plenty of ways that the Camaro could be improved upon, if thats the only thing you're considering. But when you're juggling 100 parameters to make a even the simplest of decisions making one area better can easily hurt something else that you're trying to do (like keep cost low)


Ok ... now, take a ~5'10, 150 lb runner and give him 50 lbs of extra muscle mass rather than dead weight and see how he runs. He's gunna be faster.

Its not just pure mass that affects things. Where it is, and what its doing there play an even bigger role than its mere existence. I'm getting kinda tired of people thinking of the weight on the Camaro as 'flab'. Sure, its heavy. But I think of it more as being heavy like an NFL linebacker rather than an armchair quarterback. It not there due to laziness ... it serves a purpose.

The Camaro is heavy due to a number of things. First, its a very stiff chassis. This helps with not only safety (remember that the Camaro aced the 2012 NHTSA safety tests) but it also improves the handling. When the body doesn't flex, the suspension can work better. To pull that mass out you have to either A) switch to more expensive materials B) reduce the strength C) make the car much smaller. Personally, I don't think any of those options are all that great.

There's also the independent rear suspension. Improving handling ability, ride quality, and weight distribution (and possibly centre of gravity ... not sure on that one though). Yes, it adds 150 lbs but it helps more than it hurts.
Great post!!!
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:13 AM   #13
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I wouldnt change a thing. Other, lighter cars cant hook due to not enough azz end to hugg the ground. Not this Bad Boy!!

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If a car could speak, this ZL1 would be saying "Whose Your Daddy"!!
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:58 AM   #14
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Maybe this forum is getting a little heavy on "Einstein" discussions.....
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:04 PM   #15
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Maybe this forum is getting a little heavy on "Einstein" discussions.....

<sorry, couldn't resist Htron...>
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:17 PM   #16
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it wouldn't be better,but it would definitely be faster.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:54 PM   #17
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Not necessarily.

Dirigibles are light, but neither fast nor nimble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrnMchin View Post
But not a sports car, more like an air ship

An yes it could use a diet.

I was using irony to illustrate my unspoken point that lighter is a trade off we make in any complex system. The true mark of excellence is when said system is well balanced and efficient.

By well balanced I mean the parts work well together, not the literal balance point. Efficiency is not dependent on size.

Now I had to go and explain myself and it doesn't sound nearly so witty.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:06 PM   #18
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I'd rather keep the wieght the ZL1 has now, then to take a risk as far
as safety is concerned. If I'm in a bad wreck I wanta have as much protection as possible and the best chance of coming away in one piece.
Esp if my wife is cruising with me, which would be the majority of the time.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
That's like saying "should the sun come up tomorrow???"


"Oh Lord - please deliver us from useless polls........"


Thanks Fbodfather, I could not have said it any better. Very cute picture also.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:27 PM   #20
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I will not be satisfied until the car is down to 1lb total.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:33 PM   #21
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The days of so called "light" stripper cars are over especially with all the crash rating standards and having more crap like backup sensors and cameras being mandatory.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:38 PM   #22
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Which would be faster, to Japan, or on an airplane?
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:39 PM   #23
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I would like the car to be lighter but I don't think they can have room to cut too much. All the air bags, safety features, wiring, cameras, power seats add weight and I think that if they wanted to reduce weight, they may have to reduce the body panel steel thickness, but I would be against that because the long term effects like corrosion protection would be traded off. These new cars require a lot of things to meet standards so I think thats just the way it is.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:57 PM   #24
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The Gen-6, to be built on the ATS chassis, will see marginal weight decrease...on the order of perhaps 200 lb. with equal weight/size engines (more loss with a standard 4-cylinder). It's too late in the Gen-5 lifecycle to see a Jenny Craig version...

To answer the question, anything made "more efficient" (and that includes weight) would have superior vehicle dynamics (handling/cornering/braking/acceleration)...
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:10 PM   #25
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To answer the question. Yes...and a lot more expensive.
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