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Old 11-02-2011, 10:56 AM   #101
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this concept bull is for publicity. gm should man up and have some one race it and see how it does then people are going to decide if its worth it or not.
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Old 11-02-2011, 11:30 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by nhra stocker View Post
The way NHRA determines ones class is the horsepower given by the manufacturer in the NHRA classification guide divided by the cars shipping weight. The classes are based on half pound weight increments. The fastest being AA/S or AA/SA which is 7.5-7.99lbs then A/S or A/SA 8.0-8.49lbs and so on. So for the COPO to fit in AA with a 427 (505hp if thats what GM claims) its minimum weight would be 3790LBS!
Good info to know, thanks for sharing. Now we just need to get some more accurate numbers (i.e. hp/weight) from GMPP on this car. I'm anxious to hear more about this N/A 427 (LS7) engine too!?!?!?
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Old 11-02-2011, 02:05 PM   #103
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Did anyone else notice.....BOGART Wheels!?!?!?....Sweet!!! Love 'em!!!
Those are a special design created specifically for that car. It was to be sort of a throwback design. I think it came out rather nice as well :-).

The GM staff appeared to have really liked the concept. I think its a winner! I was glad to see it being presented with the car. We weren't sure if it was going to be on the car for the unveiling. I was trying to get down there for the unveiling and meeting up with a few other people who I wanted to see...I wish I could have been there with Rich Bogart when it was released from the cage.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:41 PM   #104
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At the GM Preview the night before SEMA and at the GM SEMA Unveil and Announcements the speakers mentioned there was a 427 in 'development' That was an interesting detail they left sort of hanging out there. 427 in development for the COPO. Hmmm
I even bet you would have some "insider" info you can't share.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:10 PM   #105
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I cannot share any information and the ongoing work which is being performed. Sorry. Details will come out shortly.
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Old 11-02-2011, 11:11 PM   #106
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Wow, very nice!
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:30 AM   #107
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:30 AM   #108
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:45 AM   #109
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:( Got to find a way to get this bad boy on the street legally.

No way, no how, it can't happen. It will fail crash testing due to the injuries the cage would cause to the unhelmeted driver, the fuel cell would be a big failure in crash testing. Remember that the crash test dummies (I am not talking about the street idiots) do not wear helmets, the force numbers would spike just a bit when the head contacts the cage in a crash. GM would be out of profits pretty quickly paying off the suits of the relatives that had loved ones left brain dead from a crashes if they were allowed on the street. Then there would be cost to sent it through crash testing (and emissions), are you ready for your 150k Camaro. The Cobra Jet and Race Challegers are just under 100k, so the crash and emission testing would send the cost well over them and the limited market would have to pay for itself (that means GM will not give you street race car and eat the cost).

If the crash testing did not finish off the idea of making it street legal, then emission will help that idea sink in. Both of those engines will have to go through all the same testing as any production engine to pass federal (and Cali) emissions. How well do you think the COPO will do compared to the Cobra Jet when it carries the weight and choking equipment like catalytic converters. How the heck would GM get the fuel cell to pass the emission part of the testing too? There still would be the EPA fuel mileage numbers to deal with too, Yikes a race car with 4.11's and a Powerglide trans....can you say GPM?

So are you ready to buy a 150K Street legal 2012 COPO Camaro that would not have the cage or the fuel cell, and that is only if GM sends it through crash testing (the new rear sub-frame with its solid axle will have to be tested too). That is if GM does the emission certification of the new engines, not to even say what the fuel mileage numbers would do to GM's CAFE averages. Besides GM does not sell vehicles through GMPP.

Street legal is not going to happen..........ever, sorry Charlie.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:58 AM   #110
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No way, no how, it can't happen. It will fail crash testing due to the injuries the cage would cause to the unhelmeted driver, the fuel cell would be a big failure in crash testing. Remember that the crash test dummies (I am not talking about the street idiots) do not wear helmets, the force numbers would spike just a bit when the head contacts the cage in a crash. GM would be out of profits pretty quickly paying off the suits of the relatives that had loved ones left brain dead from a crashes if they were allowed on the street. Then there would be cost to sent it through crash testing (and emissions), are you ready for your 150k Camaro. The Cobra Jet and Race Challegers are just under 100k, so the crash and emission testing would send the cost well over them and the limited market would have to pay for itself (that means GM will not give you street race car and eat the cost).

If the crash testing did not finish off the idea of making it street legal, then emission will help that idea sink in. Both of those engines will have to go through all the same testing as any production engine to pass federal (and Cali) emissions. How well do you think the COPO will do compared to the Cobra Jet when it carries the weight and choking equipment like catalytic converters. How the heck would GM get the fuel cell to pass the emission part of the testing too? There still would be the EPA fuel mileage numbers to deal with too, Yikes a race car with 4.11's and a Powerglide trans....can you say GPM?

So are you ready to buy a 150K Street legal 2012 COPO Camaro that would not have the cage or the fuel cell, and that is only if GM sends it through crash testing (the new rear sub-frame with its solid axle will have to be tested too). That is if GM does the emission certification of the new engines, not to even say what the fuel mileage numbers would do to GM's CAFE averages. Besides GM does not sell vehicles through GMPP.

Street legal is not going to happen..........ever, sorry Charlie.
GM has nothing to do with my point. Not sure what the laws are in California but we are able to built kit cars and homemade cars here in Ontario. Whatever you build must go through a safety and emmision inspections and once passed, Ontario will issue a VIN for the vehicle. Sounds pretty rediculous that some guy can build a car from scratch or build a fibreglass AC Cobra or '32 Ford with 800HP and legally put it on the road yet it's just "not going to happen" with this car.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:15 AM   #111
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GM has nothing to do with my point. Not sure what the laws are in California but we are able to built kit cars and homemade cars here in Ontario. Whatever you build must go through a safety and emmision inspections and once passed, Ontario will issue a VIN for the vehicle. Sounds pretty rediculous that some guy can build a car from scratch or build a fibreglass AC Cobra or '32 Ford with 800HP and legally put it on the road yet it's just "not going to happen" with this car.
There are plenty here who think that GM should make it street legal, which is the real point. I don't know about the laws in Canada, but the loop hole you think you can use will not fly here in the US. Emissions would kill it under trying to sneak it through, most states that I know would go by the body (a 2010-2012 Camaro) for the standards it would be required to pass for saftey and emissions. There maybe a state with a loop hole but that state still needs to get highway funds from the Feds and the COPO Camaro is not EPA or DOT legal, so any state that did it would get its hand slapped very hard very quickly.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:19 AM   #112
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There are plenty here who think that GM should make it street legal, which is the real point. I don't know about the laws in Canada, but the loop hole you think you can use will not fly here in the US. Emissions would kill it under trying to sneak it through, most states that I know would go by the body (a 2010-2012 Camaro) for the standards it would be required to pass for saftey and emissions. There maybe a state with a loop hole but that state still needs to get highway funds from the Feds and the COPO Camaro is not EPA or DOT legal, so any state that did it would get its hand slapped very hard very quickly.
If someone used the same set-up as in a Z06 Vette, how would that fail emmisions?
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:25 AM   #113
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GM has nothing to do with my point. Not sure what the laws are in California but we are able to built kit cars and homemade cars here in Ontario. Whatever you build must go through a safety and emmision inspections and once passed, Ontario will issue a VIN for the vehicle. Sounds pretty rediculous that some guy can build a car from scratch or build a fibreglass AC Cobra or '32 Ford with 800HP and legally put it on the road yet it's just "not going to happen" with this car.
A friend of mine is building a Ferrari look-alike kit car (350 Chevy) and has been waiting >6 months to have an inspection. Here in the US.
It used to be lights in all the right places but no more.

He can't register the car until then and it really doesn't seem like it will ever happen. :(

No VIN = no insurance.

It does look great though but I think he's going to need a trailer.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:35 AM   #114
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A friend of mine is building a Ferrari look-alike kit car (350 Chevy) and has been waiting >6 months to have an inspection. Here in the US.
It used to be lights in all the right places but no more.

He can't register the car until then and it really doesn't seem like it will ever happen. :(

No VIN = no insurance.

It does look great though but I think he's going to need a trailer.
Your story reminds me of this one:

http://www.geekologie.com/2008/10/ma...ni-countac.php

http://jalopnik.com/5065896/hand+mad...s-light-of-day Watch the vid....he's obviously single....lol.


This guy hand formed everything! Not a kit car, not Lamborghini sheetmetal, just him and his raw talent!
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:04 PM   #115
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Build a car for the street on your own = your own accountability.

GM builds it and they become accountable for it.

Pretty simple to me.

Wanting one of these for the street is just dumb to me.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:10 PM   #116
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Build a car for the street on your own = your own accountability.

GM builds it and they become accountable for it.

Pretty simple to me.

Wanting one of these for the street is just dumb to me.
Okay, I'll accept that....I'm dumb then!!!!
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:22 PM   #117
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"Where there's a will, there's a way..."

In the case of a COPO, GM would be absolved of any contingent liability. If you re-register or re-apply an existing Camaro VIN from a write-off etc., and records indicate VIN xxxxxx was, in fact, written off at some point, you are totally on your own. Insurability will be "interesting" as well with a re-applied VIN...as would your legal standing if officials run that VIN.

As far as applying for "legal status" as a kit-car or hand-built special, statutes vary from State to State and Province to Province. "Could" it be done? Yes...depending...

I suspect, by the time pricing is announced and the terms/conditions that are contingent with that transaction (e.g. can you buy just a roller, without engine/trannie?), a COPO will be priced as "the sum of its parts": B-I-W, S-9 diff, cage, etc. The "all-inclusive pricing" will simply be a convenient way of buying all the components GM/Pratt & Miller have included, in a "one stop shopping", "here's what NHRA has certified" fashion.

Let's see what the price/terms/conditions are first...
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:05 PM   #118
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Okay, I'll accept that....I'm dumb then!!!!
I didn't say that. Don't be so offended. MY OPINION is that it's a dumb IDEA.

To make it street legal you'd have to do some things to it that defeat the pupose.

I'm saying that you have to do too much to the car to make it legal and safe for the street that would be counterproductive to the money you pay for a COPO. Now change the laws to make it worth it and fine. Then I'd understand it more.

I totaly get that if this car could be street legal in it's COPO form then great.

My point is simply why would you want to 'dumb down' a great track car just to make it street legal?
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:29 PM   #119
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The COPO would be a real stretch for the street from an interior perspective. I may have it confused with some of the other special builds in the GM booth, but I seem to remember cage bars where the passenger seat should be.
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:12 PM   #120
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The latest video from PRI, featuring the COPO Camaro and its appearance on the cover of the '12 GM Performance Parts Catalog:

http://www.dragzine.com/features/pri...ormance-parts/
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:48 PM   #121
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the copo is very nice. but its A TRACK CAR. it's a 327 with a blower or 427 n/a
cage and both seats. i got the flyer with pics from pri this weekend.
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:25 PM   #122
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I found these pics of the supercharged 327 and naturally aspirated 427 that will be used incompetition. I'm sure NHRA will rate them at around 375 hp LOL.
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:43 PM   #123
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Hopefully, they get solid orders and the COPO drag goes to production. If they can sell these....
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:10 AM   #124
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327 in the 9s
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:36 AM   #125
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