MACE's Intake Insulator/High Flow's Ported Intake Manifold

[MACE_ENG]

Originally Posted by MACE_ENG

We have the 6mm items on our website, but we should have some 25mm items in stock early next week

Originally Posted by jeff4946

Is it reasonably priced, or did you make em out of gold? If you can show a gain, and I won't have to sell a kidney, I'm all for it.

I'm not sure I understand.

Originally Posted by Mach

Mace.. It's great to see you guys on here. Our LLT's are finally getting some attention! I as everyone would truly like to know the gains with just the insulator on the intake. I think if you can show us some gains you will be selling a ton of these insulators! Trust me! There are many people including me who will jump on the mod wagon.

We're working on it

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

I plan on getting the ported IM with in the next couple of months. As for the insulators, I am in no rush to get them as I just don't feel they contributed that much to Jay's gains. However I am still interested in them down the road.

That's easy, Jay can take his spacers off and report back as to how his beast runs without them

Regardless though, I'm game to help anyone test them out

Generally though, I can completely understand people's doubt of the product working though.

[bmwdon]

the gains will be there from stretching the runner length out, obviously it's going to be greater with a ported intake manifold added to the spacers. But what phenolic spacers really buy you is consistancy, reducing that power lost by keeping the im cool as the engine sucks air compared to an increasingly hot im. That would be something I'd like to see....somebody that has a spacer coming, get a ir thermometer, take a temp reading before a spirited drive around town, then take the temp at the same spot on the im afterwards. Install the spacer and then do that same test, and post up the temp #'s. To maximize the hp gained on the set of spacers, the tune is going to probably need to be worked by trifecta a little....as I'm experiencing with my challenger, with colder air, I'm now misfiring at WOT in the 4+K rpm range...cooler denser air will require more fuel. I've had to up the WOT fuel rate a good 10% to keep her from misfiring and sounding like a honda on the shifts. When the temps warm back up, I'll return the original tune that works great in warm/humid weather around here.

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

I plan on getting the ported IM with in the next couple of months. As for the insulators, I am in no rush to get them as I just don't feel they contributed that much to Jay's gains. However I am still interested in them down the road.

[bmorecam]

Originally Posted by bmwdon

the gains will be there from stretching the runner length out, obviously it's going to be greater with a ported intake manifold added to the spacers. But what phenolic spacers really buy you is consistancy, reducing that power lost by keeping the im cool as the engine sucks air compared to an increasingly hot im. That would be something I'd like to see....somebody that has a spacer coming, get a ir thermometer, take a temp reading before a spirited drive around town, then take the temp at the same spot on the im afterwards. Install the spacer and then do that same test, and post up the temp #'s. To maximize the hp gained on the set of spacers, the tune is going to probably need to be worked by trifecta a little....as I'm experiencing with my challenger, with colder air, I'm now misfiring at WOT in the 4+K rpm range...cooler denser air will require more fuel. I've had to up the WOT fuel rate a good 10% to keep her from misfiring and sounding like a honda on the shifts. When the temps warm back up, I'll return the original tune that works great in warm/humid weather around here.

That's what I exactly mentioned in my earlier posts. I can take my car and do wot runs all day long, pop the hood, then when I touch the manifold I am shocked each and every time to feel that my manifold is not warm but cool. When I went on the dyno to get the result I went on with my timing being pulled back 11-12* starting around 4k rpm to redline and my AFR in the high 11's. After we fixed the AFR back to 12.7 now the KR is only at max 3-4-5 from the same 4k to redline. Whole lot better from the 11-12* it was pulling on the dyno. Vince worked closely with me on a possible tuning need for the additions but due to such sensitivity of this engine and KR the only thing we could really do was to fix what was skewed after the additions. The only possibility next tune wise is to add a little bit of extra timing. We know that in a regular situation no matter how much timing you throw the KR is going to pull whatever you throw right back out on this LLT engine, but now since we are talking whole lotta lower intake charge we might be able to get away with a few degrees of extra timing to even further optimize fuel burning without the KR pulling back a little or anything at all.

I plan to get back on the dyno after we rework the insulator to kill the turbulence and without the 11-12* of KR and correct AFR to see how much power we might of have left on the table. The intake side does look like it was a point of bottleneck from what we can see so far.

[SIXJAK]

Wow how blessed the rest of us are to come here and learn something new about our cars almost everyday. So many talented ppl on here. Thanks. Bmore this has been one of the best threads ever.

[usa1camaro1969]

One thing to consider also is his car(like so many here) isn't stock. If it was stock and got the isolators the increases from just the isolators might have been higher, yet, and we are paying a lot more for less gains on other parts, it would just be nice to know how much of the gain was from the intake being ported vs the isolators.

So, Bmore, do you think about 1/4" smaller on the holes will bring us to where we can port-match the isolator to the heads?

[bmorecam]

Originally Posted by usa1camaro1969

One thing to consider also is his car(like so many here) isn't stock. If it was stock and got the isolators the increases from just the isolators might have been higher, yet, and we are paying a lot more for less gains on other parts, it would just be nice to know how much of the gain was from the intake being ported vs the isolators.

So, Bmore, do you think about 1/4" smaller on the holes will bring us to where we can port-match the isolator to the heads?

Yup. About 6mm all around would be just about right. I am actually having the isolator reshaped and resized then I am going to put it on the dyno and see exactly how much the turbulence has cost me. I was surprised to still see the type of gain I got even with the turbulence so I wonder, how much is this turbulence really worth If I have more power to gain from the AFR correction, KR, and turbulence, then that would be just insane and goes to show that the intake might of been a bigger bottleneck then most of us thought.

[jeff4946]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

That's what I exactly mentioned in my earlier posts. I can take my car and do wot runs all day long, pop the hood, then when I touch the manifold I am shocked each and every time to feel that my manifold is not warm but cool. When I went on the dyno to get the result I went on with my timing being pulled back 11-12* starting around 4k rpm to redline and my AFR in the high 11's. After we fixed the AFR back to 12.7 now the KR is only at max 3-4-5 from the same 4k to redline. Whole lot better from the 11-12* it was pulling on the dyno. Vince worked closely with me on a possible tuning need for the additions but due to such sensitivity of this engine and KR the only thing we could really do was to fix what was skewed after the additions. The only possibility next tune wise is to add a little bit of extra timing. We know that in a regular situation no matter how much timing you throw the KR is going to pull whatever you throw right back out on this LLT engine, but now since we are talking whole lotta lower intake charge we might be able to get away with a few degrees of extra timing to even further optimize fuel burning without the KR pulling back a little or anything at aqll.

I plan to get back on the dyno after we rework the insulator to kill the turbulence and without the 11-12* of KR and correct AFR to see how much power we might of have left on the table. The intake side does look like it was a point of bottleneck from what we can see so far.

I'm assuming your going to slope the insulator to from the upper intake to the lower. Are you going to do it yourself, or take it to a shop?

[Victoryred69]

Originally Posted by MACE_ENG

Regardless though, I'm game to help anyone test them out for $0

Generally though, I can completely understand people's doubt of the product working though.

Hey mace, I'm willing to give it a shot for the insulators for the first test on the vararam intakes for all those who are wondering if they will fit or not! I'm sure i can make it work one way or another, I'm planning on taking off the intake manifold anyways to port it at my shop... Let me know what you think !

[bmorecam]

Originally Posted by jeff4946

I'm assuming your going to slope the insulator to from the upper intake to the lower. Are you going to do it yourself, or take it to a shop?

That was the original plan from the beginning but the insulator holes match to the factory gaskets and not the factory holes of the head or the intake manifold. So the plan is to reshape and resize the holes to match the head using
a heat/oil/pressure resistant epoxy. Darin of high flow will be doing the work for me.

[bmorecam]

Originally Posted by Victoryred69

Hey mace, I'm willing to give it a shot for the insulators for the first test on the vararam intakes for all those who are wondering if they will fit or not! I'm sure i can make it work one way or another, I'm planning on taking off the intake manifold anyways to port it at my shop... Let me know what you think !

You vararam guys "MAYBE" able to get away with 6mm isolator, but anything bigger then that you will have problems. I know this because I used to have vararam and I know how tight and how important it is for the rear horn to line up properly and not to mention, the very small area where vararam get air from. Raising the vararam intake will cause for the air gap to close further and the rear horn will not line up properly which in that case vararam will be worthless.

[TJ91]

Originally Posted by Victoryred69

Hey mace, I'm willing to give it a shot for the insulators for the first test on the vararam intakes for all those who are wondering if they will fit or not! I'm sure i can make it work one way or another, I'm planning on taking off the intake manifold anyways to port it at my shop... Let me know what you think !

dude, keep me posted!!!!

[MichaelH]

I need to find someone over here to port my IM and match my heads lol. hopefully someone will be able to

[mydreamcar]

Originally Posted by Victoryred69

Hey mace, I'm willing to give it a shot for the insulators for the first test on the vararam intakes for all those who are wondering if they will fit or not! I'm sure i can make it work one way or another, I'm planning on taking off the intake manifold anyways to port it at my shop... Let me know what you think !

Thank YOU. As I was wondering if we could make the thinest one work

[blackTT600]

Originally Posted by MACE_ENG

Regardless though, I'm game to help anyone test them out for $0

Generally though, I can completely understand people's doubt of the product working though.


Hey man, my LLT is all stock for now, I'll try it out and do the IR thermometer test to show heat sink on the stock manifold. PM me if you wanna talk about it a bit more. I'm going to go FI so I think this would be a good increase in low end torque, before turbos spool.

[blackTT600]

Just thought I should add, I'm a certified michanic so I can/will do the install my self. And almost immediately upon receiving the spacer. I would also want like a 25mm spacer if not more.

[usa1camaro1969]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

Raising the vararam intake will cause for the air gap to close further and the rear horn will not line up properly which in that case vararam will be worthless.

Got an idea on that, as well.

[ChadG]

Originally Posted by usa1camaro1969

Got an idea on that, as well.

Let's hear it! As a Vararam owner I'm itching to see what we can do.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

You vararam guys "MAYBE" able to get away with 6mm isolator, but anything bigger then that you will have problems. I know this because I used to have vararam and I know how tight and how important it is for the rear horn to line up properly and not to mention, the very small area where vararam get air from. Raising the vararam intake will cause for the air gap to close further and the rear horn will not line up properly which in that case vararam will be worthless.

I took a decent look at the vararam the other night and there really is almost zero room for raising the intake manifold. Your correct that it would tighten up the air inlet area.

Originally Posted by usa1camaro1969

Got an idea on that, as well.

I'm also interested in hearing your thoughts.

My inital thoughts are that it could maybe work if we were to shave down the middle and lower area of the horn that mates up to the end of the TB so it would be angled downward, but that won't work. It would cause turbulance with the air, not to mention you could no longer attach the TB and VR with the red rubber "seal" and the clamps that Vararam provides because it wouldn't be straight.

Only other thing I can think of is modifying the front of the Vararam somehow so that part would be lower, but I haven't taken a good look at the front and I'm not even sure if that would be possible.

[SIXJAK]

Should be interesting to see how this turns out for you guys rollin with the VR intake.

[mhog]

With the VR you would have to change the angle to the front part that holds the filter.

[bmorecam]

Unless usa1 has some really good idea I just dont see how raising the vararam will work, but I would love to see what usa1 is going to come out with. I seen some of the best modification come from average car loving peoples like ourselves so I am optimistic.

[usa1camaro1969]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

I took a decent look at the vararam the other night and there really is almost zero room for raising the intake manifold. Your correct that it would tighten up the air inlet area.



I'm also interested in hearing your thoughts.

My inital thoughts are that it could maybe work if we were to shave down the middle and lower area of the horn that mates up to the end of the TB so it would be angled downward, but that won't work. It would cause turbulance with the air, not to mention you could no longer attach the TB and VR with the red rubber "seal" and the clamps that Vararam provides because it wouldn't be straight.

Only other thing I can think of is modifying the front of the Vararam somehow so that part would be lower, but I haven't taken a good look at the front and I'm not even sure if that would be possible.

When I originally got my Vararam it didn't quite fit right so they sent me another. I still have the original and am looking at adjusting the angle of the Vararam horn. I have a belt sander(machine, not hand-held) so I think I can take it off and keep it straight. When I am satisfied on the old one that it will actually work I will take it to the one that fits right. 1/8" at the air-horn will equal to a lot more at the front, and I don't think I'll need to take much at all.

[bmorecam]

Originally Posted by usa1camaro1969

When I originally got my Vararam it didn't quite fit right so they sent me another. I still have the original and am looking at adjusting the angle of the Vararam horn. I have a belt sander(machine, not hand-held) so I think I can take it off and keep it straight. When I am satisfied on the old one that it will actually work I will take it to the one that fits right. 1/8" at the air-horn will equal to a lot more at the front, and I don't think I'll need to take much at all.

So what size insulator are you trying this with?

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by usa1camaro1969

When I originally got my Vararam it didn't quite fit right so they sent me another. I still have the original and am looking at adjusting the angle of the Vararam horn. I have a belt sander(machine, not hand-held) so I think I can take it off and keep it straight. When I am satisfied on the old one that it will actually work I will take it to the one that fits right. 1/8" at the air-horn will equal to a lot more at the front, and I don't think I'll need to take much at all.

I think you might be talking about what I first mentioned in my post above...basically sanding down the end of the VR horn right. But then wouldn't you end up with a slighly angled connection point? (see my very crude image I've attached.) It may be exaggerated a bit, but you get my point.

If you did that, you couldn't use the red rubber tube/hose thingy and the clamps that Vararam provides to hold the two ends together could you? Also, would that add air turbulence at the point where the VR and TB meet?

[bmorecam]

Like I said many times, I don't think you guys will have to modify anything with 6mm which will still isolate heat very well. If everything else fail to use a bigger insulator then at least you guys still have something to work with.