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Old 10-17-2007, 04:22 PM   #76
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yeah, I can see something dark right below the white rectangle on the windshield, and it looks positioned right where the b pillar could be. I can't tell whether the white rectangle is a real sticker on the windshield or if it is photoshopped in.
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Old 10-17-2007, 05:33 PM   #77
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Yeah I agree with tag. The b pillar looks like it should be right under that white rectangle reflection thing.
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Old 10-17-2007, 05:58 PM   #78
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Who said Geometry sucks? Nice, theonlyoneleft

btw...I was gonna use an acronym for your name...but it turned out to be TOOL...so I didn't.:eek:
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Old 10-17-2007, 10:18 PM   #79
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Some one help me out. What is the deal with the white triangles? Some1, enlighten me?
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Old 10-17-2007, 10:31 PM   #80
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They're meant to throw off people's perception and hide the lines of the car, same thing as leather/pleather masks that people put on the cars you see in spy shots.
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Old 10-17-2007, 10:57 PM   #81
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You gotta hand it to GM...they've got the bra's and the camo paint...If it wasn't for those tires, the dash, the rear haunches, the DLO (daylight openings - we don't say windows), and the fact that Ed Welburn is hugging it...I wouldn't have recognized it for Camaro. That paint job does a piece on your eyes...:eek:
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Old 10-18-2007, 08:35 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theonlyoneleft View Post
Yeah I agree with tag. The b pillar looks like it should be right under that white rectangle reflection thing.
That is too far back for the B-Pillar. Ed is covering it up for sure.
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Old 10-18-2007, 08:47 AM   #83
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That is too far back for the B-Pillar. Ed is covering it up for sure.
Yeah, I was looking at that too...I think the "x-axis geometry" is too far back on the "z-axis". But, if that's the case, then at least the base of the b-pillar on the passenger side should definitely be visible through the windshield.

Either way, good work with the 3-D axis.

I'm actually not convinced that the b-pillar isn't photoshopped out of the picture (based on what GM has said, I think it will be there, hidden, they aren't "lying" about it to throw everyone off). If you follow the top of the door forward (from the circled point on the geometry picture), you can see what I believe everyone has been referring to as the lock. I think it looks more like a "break" in the trim/seal. You know, right where the trailing edge of the door would meet the leading edge of the rear quarter.

Maybe not...just my thoughts.
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Old 10-18-2007, 08:51 AM   #84
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I have no clue what you guys are talking about with the geometry, but the car still looks good. I cant wait to see the full thing
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Old 10-18-2007, 09:57 AM   #85
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one more reason

I prefer to hope there is no b-pillar due to this photo. it looks like there is no b-pillar on the passenger side if nothing was photoshopped. therefore i state the following:

1) it would completely speed up the design for the convertible with no b-pillar.

2) the camaro would have a leg-up on ALL the pony cars if it's the only one with no b-pillar.

I am not convinced about the "it will add too much weight" excuse. where there is a will, there's a way. Do something right the first time, or don't bother doing anything.

Last edited by 2001ragtop; 10-18-2007 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 10-18-2007, 10:00 AM   #86
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I prefer to hope there is no b-pillar due to this photo. it looks like there is no b-pillar on the passenger side if nothing was photoshopped. therefore i state the following reasons to have this belief:

1) it would completely speed up the design for the convertible (back window issue resolved in advance).

2) the camaro would have a leg-up on ALL the pony cars if it's the only one with no b-pillar. it would even SIGNIFICANTLY help sell plenty of V6 cars, having an edge over V6 mustangs. it would make everyone else's pony car look boring. they could wait till it's TOO LATE for anyone to copy this. And it would IGNITE the camaro customers to find out later about this. Right ? Until I see another spy pic, I am sticking to this belief.
There will be a B-Pillar
The engineering/design is all set on the Convertible,
How does the lack of a B-Pillar significantly sell more V6 cars?
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Old 10-18-2007, 10:52 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001ragtop View Post
I prefer to hope there is no b-pillar due to this photo. it looks like there is no b-pillar on the passenger side if nothing was photoshopped. therefore i state the following:

1) it would completely speed up the design for the convertible with no b-pillar.

2) the camaro would have a leg-up on ALL the pony cars if it's the only one with no b-pillar.

I am not convinced about the "it will add too much weight" excuse. where there is a will, there's a way. Do something right the first time, or don't bother doing anything.
The Convertible was designed side-by-side the coupe. It wasn't an afterthought. The B-pillar...that's the "afterthought".

leg-up...maybe in design - no. Only in design. The B-pillar will help to ensure a 5-star crash rating all around. If GM were to try to attain this without a B-pillar. There would need to be substantial re-enforcement of the roof itself (taking away from the low center of gravity, and adding to wieght) and of the C-pillar, also adding to wieght. It's all to achive a 5-star comprehensive crash rating. That's the only reason the B-pillar is being added.

You can believe what you want...nobody can tell you to do otherwise. But when Bob Lutz releases info that there will in fact be a B-pillar. And then Scott confirms it (not that we doubted Mr. Lutz)...I'm pretty sure there's gonna be a B-pillar.

As for the photo. I highly doubt anyone would have photoshopped out the B-pillar. there is the chance, yes...but why go through that trouble when you've already announced it will be there? I'm convinced it's just a lucky shot. Posed perfectly, by accident or not...to keep us asking.
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:26 AM   #88
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Quote:
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btw...I was gonna use an acronym for your name...but it turned out to be TOOL...so I didn't.:eek:
Haha I've never realized that
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:18 PM   #89
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How does the lack of a B-Pillar significantly sell more V6 cars?
the people who buy V6 models, don't care about engine displacement/racing/speeding/0-60.

Some people just buy a car for looks. (the way most people get married/then predictably divorced).

These car buyers might think it is cool that all (4) windows roll down and use that to sway them to get the camaro, instead of a mustang.

That is all I meant.
I agree you can't ask for everything. Adios
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Old 10-18-2007, 02:12 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001ragtop View Post
the people who buy V6 models, don't care about engine displacement/racing/speeding/0-60.

Some people just buy a car for looks. (the way most people get married/then predictably divorced).

These car buyers might think it is cool that all (4) windows roll down and use that to sway them to get the camaro, instead of a mustang.

That is all I meant.
I agree you can't ask for everything. Adios
Honestly I'd be suprised if the B-Pillar thing swayed v6 buyers at all. That will continue to be the bulk of the sales for the Camaro regardless

I do not think the rear window will roll down on the new car, it iwll be much cheaper to build keeping it stationary as well as help keep weight down.

I can't wait to see more production pics
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Old 10-18-2007, 02:32 PM   #91
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Honestly I'd be suprised if the B-Pillar thing swayed v6 buyers at all. That will continue to be the bulk of the sales for the Camaro regardless

I do not think the rear window will roll down on the new car, it iwll be much cheaper to build keeping it stationary as well as help keep weight down.

I can't wait to see more production pics
that is something that dont make since to me the Cobalt coupe and Sedan are the same exact price but u know extra hinges and window motor and a bigger glass i mean why isnt the coupe cheaper?
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Old 10-18-2007, 02:50 PM   #92
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They probably offset the price by raising the price of the coupe...

(these aren't real numbers)
but say the building cost of the Sedan is 18,000. and the building price of the coupe was 16000.

Lower, and raise - respectively - the prices a bit: 17,000 all around. you're still getting that 2k just in different places.




Either that, or...
You've got a big opening in the side of a vehicle. You need to fill it with something. So you have two door sets, and a rear quarter panel to choose from. Either way you swing it, the cost to put some kind of a door in there, should be about the same.
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Old 10-18-2007, 03:30 PM   #93
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that is something that dont make since to me the Cobalt coupe and Sedan are the same exact price but u know extra hinges and window motor and a bigger glass i mean why isnt the coupe cheaper?
My guess is the coupe needs sturdier hinges for the heavier door, better window mechanisms for the larger window, and mechanisms to drop the front seats forward to allow rear access. Just guessing though.
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Old 10-19-2007, 01:51 AM   #94
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First: Long time reader, First time poster. Finnaly decided to stop being the voyer and get in on the discussions.

Second: My Views/Thoughts:

If that shiny thing is the door lock... It seams oddly forward as i don't see the B Pillar. That being said if they say there is one, I believe it. It is much (easier isn't the right word so we'll say...) "smarter" (ie better engineering) to have that structural support and then camouflage it. Unfortunately we lose that "cool roll the windows down the whole way back" look.

Next the rear lip spoilers absence is not of big concern. It is most likely not a part of the trunk sheet metal, just a glue on that if you would leave off if your going to cover it with a bra. Its then easier to fit the bra. :-)

Lastly this photo is disappointing to me. I'm not all over the side mirrors albeit they are probably a heck of alot more functional than the concept.
You cant see the roof line and C pillar that show off the silhouette that just makes the camaro pop. I really want to see the concept hood throughout all models of the new camaro. I do like the fuel port up on the quarter panel but it will be annoying if you keep dripping gas on the paint. Hopefully this is a deliberate photo to hide the goodies from us. We'll have to wait and see.

Final thought: wouldn't it be great if they meant first quarter "fiscal year" 2009(ie OCT '08). Probably not as that is the projected start of production. But a boy can hope right?
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Old 10-19-2007, 01:55 AM   #95
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Hopefully the Camaro makes some money for GM. Maybe we should pitch in a buy the company a camera with a resolution better than 0.1 MP.
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Old 10-19-2007, 01:59 AM   #96
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Hopefully the Camaro makes some money for GM. Maybe we should pitch in a buy the company a camera with a resolution better than 0.1 MP.
AMEN to that!^
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:52 AM   #97
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Quote:
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Hopefully the Camaro makes some money for GM. Maybe we should pitch in a buy the company a camera with a resolution better than 0.1 MP.

I would bet money it is no accident the picture they released was such poor quality
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:13 PM   #98
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Is it me or is the roof depression missing from the mule? You know that small recessed section that is on the concept. Take a look at the picture in dragoneyes #92 post to see it.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:50 PM   #99
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I would bet money it is no accident the picture they released was such poor quality
That's what I assumed. They don't want us all enlarging it for fine details.
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:50 PM   #100
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"How many fingers am I holding up?....Oh, you have to wear this Welding helmet first....okay, okay - Now how many fingers am I holding up?"

That's what I feel like.
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