Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Vitesse Motorsports
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Forced Induction - V6


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-20-2009, 12:02 AM   #35
Grape Ape
 
Drives: 96 Bronco w/ a 5 speed
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: PNW
Posts: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
as for why DI motors use high press fuel injectors, its because they are in the combustion chamber, not in the intake manifold. what does this mean? basically that the injector has to be able to withstand the immense compression of the cylinder and still be able to spray the fuel and atomize it properly in a given amount of time.
The DI engines need high pressure injectors (& fuel pumps) because they do inject during the compression stroke in certain modes Mostly light loads and cold starts not high loads where knocking is a threat. Here is a pretty good article on them: http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Direc...0/article.html

They mention about half way down that the computer opens the throttle wider in the first mode (Stratified Charge Mode) to reduce pumping losses.

The higher pressure should also produce smaller droplets which would in turn provide more cooling of the air (actually just faster, but time is limited).
Grape Ape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 10:51 AM   #36
MrIcky

 
MrIcky's Avatar
 
Drives: Dodge Ram Megacab & Cobalt SS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Boise
Posts: 1,536
Well one thing that is 100% clear from this post: Many people don't fully understand turbos, and maybe moreso on the STS's.

I still think the STS looks pretty good for a bolt on set-up. Despite the long routing, it does appear to be easier to set up for a street application. Watching an install video, it appears to be something doable in a garage over a weekend.
MrIcky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 01:09 PM   #37
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 26,423
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
I really like the STS setup. Clearly, its not the ideal system for a racecar...but how many people build honest-to goodness racecars, anyways?
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.

Mr. Wyndham is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 01:30 PM   #38
MrIcky

 
MrIcky's Avatar
 
Drives: Dodge Ram Megacab & Cobalt SS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Boise
Posts: 1,536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
I really like the STS setup. Clearly, its not the ideal system for a racecar...but how many people build honest-to goodness racecars, anyways?
LOL, as many posts as you've read Dragoneye, you'd think the answer is obvious. Your answer is 'everyone here' .
MrIcky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 01:43 PM   #39
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 26,423
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Tuche...
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.

Mr. Wyndham is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 06:23 PM   #40
fierodeletre
 
Drives: 02 WS6 TA, 88 Fiero Formula
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Utard
Posts: 296
touché <--- sorry

So do the GM DI motors use the Bosch system? Or the Mitsubishi system? Or a proprietary one? Something else? Pretty neat tech write up though Grape Ape, thanks for that. So it can both fire during the compression, the intake or a mixture of the two, or both. Crazy.
fierodeletre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 11:25 AM   #41
Rock
 
Drives: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperFi View Post
How do yall know all this stuff. Its impressive and entertaining.

But I do have a quick question. 6000+ seems like a lot for a single turbo, but i believe it. What I want to know is how much HP and torque gain do you think we will see? Because it better be more than enough to get faster than the SS, since the price difference between the two engines is smaller than that turbo cost...

Usually a 50% increase in power across the board, so somewhere around 400-450 at the crank. It could be potentially more or less depending on how agressive a setup is built. You got to pay to play. The more power you want the more it costs. You figure a Garret GT30 Turbo costs around 1500-2000 dollars, and it's one of the more popular turbo upgrades nowadays in addition to gt35r
http://siteground207.com/~protegeg/p...roducts_id=695
Sample of an upgrade for the Mazdaspeed3.
I'm not too familiar with 6 cylinder turbo setups personally, but previous posts are correct, in that most kits will more than likely be twins, and small snails too. Most of the 350Z kits are twinsetups, but I'm sure some people WILL make singles for those on a budget or want big power from a big turbo instead of two little pea shooters.

Sample of a Single Turbo Kit for a v6 from a good turbo company:
http://www.turboneticsinc.com/produc...category_id=65

Here's a Twin Kit, not sure of the pricing but on another site it was close to 8k:
http://www.airpowersystems.com/350z/350z_tt_tuner.htm

Notice they get almost double the stock output.
Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 03:14 PM   #42
CamaroSpike23
Truth Enforcer
 
CamaroSpike23's Avatar
 
Drives: anything I can get my hands on
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,830
Send a message via Yahoo to CamaroSpike23
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrIcky View Post
LOL, as many posts as you've read Dragoneye, you'd think the answer is obvious. Your answer is 'everyone here' .
not really.

everyone might talk about how they would like to build a race car or how they turned a wrench on one or two or that have taken their bolt-on car to the track once or twice, but there arent a lot of members out here who have built their cars into full/near-full race cars.
__________________
Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
A group as a whole tends to be smarter than the smartest person in that group until one jackass convinces everyone otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
CamaroSpike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 04:03 PM   #43
MrIcky

 
MrIcky's Avatar
 
Drives: Dodge Ram Megacab & Cobalt SS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Boise
Posts: 1,536
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
not really.

everyone might talk about how they would like to build a race car or how they turned a wrench on one or two or that have taken their bolt-on car to the track once or twice, but there arent a lot of members out here who have built their cars into full/near-full race cars.
I was kidding .
MrIcky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 04:22 PM   #44
CamaroSpike23
Truth Enforcer
 
CamaroSpike23's Avatar
 
Drives: anything I can get my hands on
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,830
Send a message via Yahoo to CamaroSpike23
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrIcky View Post
I was kidding .

I'm not.

__________________
Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
A group as a whole tends to be smarter than the smartest person in that group until one jackass convinces everyone otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
CamaroSpike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 05:05 PM   #45
BowtieGuy
Enlightened
 
BowtieGuy's Avatar
 
Drives: Nothing Currently
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,285
Spike doesn't kid. He full on goats.
__________________
If you believe it is your right to speak freely no matter the content, relevance, or intelligence of statement, then it is my duty to the powers that be to set you straight.

People have to talk about something just to keep their voice boxes in working order. So they'll have good voice boxes in case there's ever anything really meaningful to say.
Kurt Vonnegut
BowtieGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 09:16 PM   #46
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 26,423
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
but there arent a lot of members out here who have built their cars into full/near-full race cars.
They're not members, because they're too busy building the cars....

I'd bet that a lot of you wouldn't believe the time and effort that goes into building a true race car. A friend of mine builds F1-style Indy cars...sub 3-second zero-to-sixty, etc, etc...FROM SCRATCH. He machines all his own parts, the only thing he buys as a pre-built item is the steering rack, electronics, and the engine. Everything from the frame to suspension is hand-crafted...it's astounding.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.

Mr. Wyndham is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 08:48 AM   #47
MontyCarlo

 
MontyCarlo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT/RS auto IBM
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
They're not members, because they're too busy building the cars....

I'd bet that a lot of you wouldn't believe the time and effort that goes into building a true race car. A friend of mine builds F1-style Indy cars...sub 3-second zero-to-sixty, etc, etc...FROM SCRATCH. He machines all his own parts, the only thing he buys as a pre-built item is the steering rack, electronics, and the engine. Everything from the frame to suspension is hand-crafted...it's astounding.
Does he own a machine shop and build the cars in his spare time there, or is that his actual job?
__________________
FAQs:
1. No, I do not have any strong opinions about the Monte Carlo.
2. Yes, I know what my name looks like.
3. Yes, but the medication helps immensely.

2LT/RS IBM/gray #21,895 ordered April 21st, delivered July 3rd
MontyCarlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 01:51 PM   #48
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 26,423
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyCarlo View Post
Does he own a machine shop and build the cars in his spare time there, or is that his actual job?
He's a full-time student, and it's a hobby of his. He uses the machine shop at school. Everytime I help him turn a part, or mill something...it always boggles my mind how much time he spends on this....
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.

Mr. Wyndham is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 02:29 PM   #49
MontyCarlo

 
MontyCarlo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT/RS auto IBM
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
He's a full-time student, and it's a hobby of his. He uses the machine shop at school. Everytime I help him turn a part, or mill something...it always boggles my mind how much time he spends on this....
Wow. In job interviews he can just skip the education background and say "come with me to the parking lot, I want to show you something!"

But back on the topic of turbos, I have a technical question. They say superchargers burn more fuel because they're powered by the engine, and turbochargers are basically working from free energy in the moving exhaust. But by harnessing the exhaust they're backing up the pressure, which I would think makes the engine work harder just like a supercharger does. So why is it one's bad for mileage and one's good?
__________________
FAQs:
1. No, I do not have any strong opinions about the Monte Carlo.
2. Yes, I know what my name looks like.
3. Yes, but the medication helps immensely.

2LT/RS IBM/gray #21,895 ordered April 21st, delivered July 3rd
MontyCarlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 02:42 PM   #50
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 26,423
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyCarlo View Post
But back on the topic of turbos, I have a technical question. They say superchargers burn more fuel because they're powered by the engine, and turbochargers are basically working from free energy in the moving exhaust. But by harnessing the exhaust they're backing up the pressure, which I would think makes the engine work harder just like a supercharger does. So why is it one's bad for mileage and one's good?
Most modern superchargers won't decrease fuel economy noticeably...unless you're putting eleventy-billion psi . Some, like the new EATON TVS units, can actually increase mileage, like turbos. You are right that turbos create increased back pressure, which means the engine has to work harder to push air out...but it's less 'extra' work than it takes to turn a belt-driven supercharger, so generally they're more efficient.

Plus....turbos make very little boost down low, where most people rev when they're putt-putting around town -- but there's always a gentle pressure in the system -- this helps eliminate pumping losses (the work the engine has to invest in drawing air in), increasing efficiency and mileage when you're not racing.

But if you hammer on either one, they'll both drink gasoline like an alcoholic at a bar.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.

Mr. Wyndham is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 03:00 PM   #51
MontyCarlo

 
MontyCarlo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT/RS auto IBM
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,259
Great answer. Thanks! I'm a mechanical engineer and I spend a lot of time looking at energy consumption and air flow, so I love getting into the details of how things like this work.
__________________
FAQs:
1. No, I do not have any strong opinions about the Monte Carlo.
2. Yes, I know what my name looks like.
3. Yes, but the medication helps immensely.

2LT/RS IBM/gray #21,895 ordered April 21st, delivered July 3rd
MontyCarlo is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.