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Old 11-15-2011, 09:34 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by Ozzie RS View Post
How does Ford get away with no gas guzzler tax? Does anyone know if it is based on mpg or what?
Yeah, it's based on mpg's. They "get away with it" by having a lighter car with a smaller displacement engine and less parasitic drive-train loss with the SRA vs the IRS. I'd also say the variable cam timing and DOHC are more efficient than simpler OHV design that GM uses.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:40 PM   #408
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I'm glad they finally released the price, gives a good idea of the Vert price in 2013....that's the one I'm waiting for....
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:40 PM   #409
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$60,000.00 is a true bargain for this car!

Here's where most people on this forum & others haven't a clue.
This car is being released as a 2012 only to have convertible be released as 2013 couple months later.
No way am I spending $60,000.00 to have a year old car in couple months. I'm being patient and waiting few months!
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:49 PM   #410
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You really used to work in the industry? Because it's pretty well known that all of these companies have their methods of getting the inside scoop at their competitors. I'm positive the people at Ford had more details about the ZL1 and than we ever did. I'm sure they knew about this price long ago and have reacted accordingly with the 2013 GT500.

As for the people that are bitching... really? REALLY?

Ok, so you don't want to do anything other than go in a straight line, that's cool then the ZL1 isn't the car for you. You can get a lot more power into the ground with a $35k SS and $20k in mods than you will buying the ZL1... but if you want to road race, god help you.

You're paying for the complete track package, the magnetic ride and it's ridiculous ability to run road courses (at that cost). If that's not what you want then don't get it.
But wouldn't GM have the same inside information advantage? I guess Ford spies must be better than GM spies.

What I see happening here is Ford putting GM's back up against a wall with a Mustang that's encroaching on Corvette territory. Historically, GM would never let the Camaro top the Corvette. How they'll respond to this, I have no idea. The C7 should answer that question.

If my goal was a track car, I'd stay away from forced induction. The Boss is the perfect car for that.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:51 PM   #411
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Wow, that would truly be amazing...that they were able to react so quickly to the competition. I used to work in the automotive industry and in my experience to react that quickly to a competitor would have been impossible. Oh, wait a second, it still is.

It doesn't work like that. The 2013 GT500 wasn't developed nearly that quickly, neither was the 2012 ZL1 for that matter, and I have absolutely no idea where people get these ideas from. Ford and GM do not simply wait around to see what the other is going to do before developing these things, if they did they would stay behind the curve forever and never be competitive or have any chance of taking the lead from a proactive rival rival.

As for 2012 vs 2013, despite appearances the 2012 ZL1 and 2013 GT500 will be direct competitors.

2012 AZL1 on sale date: Spring 2012
2013 GT500 on sale date: Spring 2012

In fact, as of right now there is a fair chance that the 2013 GT500 will be on lots before the 2012 ZL1 is. Don't get too caught up in model years, they can be easily tweaked to serve a purpose. These cars are going to be on the market at the same time and will be compared directly be every major magazine.
we have known the zl1 was at least 550 hp since february, imo thats plenty of time. its a competion!
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:53 PM   #412
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Good Point Clyde

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Originally Posted by Blueclyde View Post
Boy oh boy, what a day for C5 site today. The number of people in the ZL1 section was staggering! Lots of information from the OEM's today and lots of opinions from you all.

The price for the ZL1 is very close to where I thought it would be. A lot of money for a lot of car. Everybody can plainly see that. Purely a personal choice regarding spending the money. Hard to argue with the price though given the market and specs/performance of the car.

As for the 2013 Ford, who really cares? That thing could have 2000hp and I wouldn't buy it. I'm a Chevy guy and always will be. This whole debate is really that simple. Good luck to those going with the Ford. I'm sticking with Chevy.
You DO sum it up pretty good there son! Nice post

So when FERD comes out wit da 650 thing... my position is......

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Old 11-15-2011, 09:57 PM   #413
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Personally I don't think it's worth the money. Add 10 to 20k to msrp for dealer mark up.

You can buy a 2012 2ss rs for 35 to 38... Add a Maggie and be just a fast and save 20 to 30k. Only time will tell when these cars start hitting the showroom floors.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:57 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by Blueclyde View Post
Boy oh boy, what a day for C5 site today. The number of people in the ZL1 section was staggering! Lots of information from the OEM's today and lots of opinions from you all.

The price for the ZL1 is very close to where I thought it would be. A lot of money for a lot of car. Everybody can plainly see that. Purely a personal choice regarding spending the money. Hard to argue with the price though given the market and specs/performance of the car.

As for the 2013 Ford, who really cares? That thing could have 2000hp and I wouldn't buy it. I'm a Chevy guy and always will be. This whole debate is really that simple. Good luck to those going with the Ford. I'm sticking with Chevy.
x Eleventy billion
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:58 PM   #415
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Personally I don't think it's worth the money. Add 10 to 20k to msrp for dealer mark up.
Buy somewhere else?
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:16 PM   #416
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First I would like to say I am a Camaro guy 100%!!! The first car I owned was a 1997 Camaro, and this was when it was not cool to drive an American car. I was 18 when I got it and everyone wanted a 300Z, Mazda RX8, 3000GT, or Supra at the time. American muscle cars were almost dead and there was no Transformers or Retro look Mustang/Challenger to save them. As a little kid in the 80s my fav car was the IROC Camaro. Sure guys laughed at it having only 190 HP but I thought it was cool. My point is I have always loved the Camaro!

That being said Ford just turned up the heat big time on Chevy. I don't think we need to wait till 2013 to realize the 2013 Shelby will smoke the current ZL1 and Chevy knows that too. If anyone does more with less its Ford!! The 5.0 has less liters and HP, but walks the SS like a dog Look what they can do with NO SUPERCHARGER on the Boss To me that means either Chevy will take a beating for several years or they will make the 2013 ZL1 faster. Either way its not looking like a good idea to get a 2012 ZL1. As far as GMPP being an option that only adds even more cash to the 55K price of the ZL1. I know for a lot of people price was an issue with the ZL1? Has that changed now that the Shelby has soo much HP?

As far as road racing .............. I just don't get it? I mean if I have the money to go road racing I would probably buy a Viper ACR, ZR1, or a model of car known for track racing. I mean besides Trans AM when did muscle car guys start to care about road/track racing? Most guys that are into that type of racing think American cars are a joke (just watch Top Gear). As Americans we were always more concerned with stoplights and drag strips Are we now trying to copy the Euro and Asian cars? If so maybe you should start giving the kid in his SUPER CIVIC with the fart can the thumps up

As for me I tend to think you should stick with the girl you brought to the damce. Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, etc are 0 to 60 1/4 mile cars. So the only thing I want is to not have my doors blown off at the stoplight by the guy driving the Ford or Mopar! If I want to drive around a race track I will buy a Mazda Miata or a Lotus.

Oh and your a better man than I am if you are not bothered by having your car boasted after only a half model year. I am not just talking about the Shelby either. Buying a 2012 ZL1 and having the 2013 have more power would eat me alive. I mean c'mon man, you buy the latest greatest anything and not even a year later yours is old news! I saw the price for the ZL1 here, but could not find it anywhere else, all I kept finding was Mustang this and Mustang that. Inside Line did not even have a story about the price of the Zl1 it was all Mustang.

I think Chevy should hold back the ZL1 till it can match or better the Shelby thats just me. I work hard for my money and love Chevy, but I am already getting the S@#$ kicked out of me in my SS by the 5.0. That way you don't screw the guys breaking the bank to buy the 2012 and you don't get the smackdown laid to you by the Mustang.

on a side note the ZL1 does 0 to 60 in 3.9
the Boss 302 does it in 4.0 (MotorTrend)

I was hoping to see the ZL1 get 0 to 60 numbers like the SLP cars

Marketing the car for a profit has a lot to do with it. Sure Chevy wants to be number 1 but selling the car for a profit is the number 1 priority imho. Yes they already know what is going to be offered next year and probably the year after that depending on technology. The after market is what it is because they can take the time to make their favorite model better be it Ford or Chevy or Mopar. I think that is what makes it great. You have the option of buying the Chevy and going into the after market and making it better and spanking the competition
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:18 PM   #417
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now whats next for Chevy, since ford is coming out with 650hp 200 mph 2013 shelby should i wait for the next camaro instead of a zl1
Buy something. If you wait for the next camaro...then the next faster ford will come along, then another faster camaro followed by a faster ford, then another faster camaro the next year. Find you something you will be happy with, and buy it as long as its chevy of course.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:19 PM   #418
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Well here's a thought. Maybe now some of the dealers will cut out the bs with the market adjustment song and dance that they've been feeding us. We were served by a mixed sword this past day with the news of a bigger and badder ford. On paper it sounds like the zl1 isn't the only pony car in the game.

Chevy will be forced to respond somehow, and IMO I don't think deep discounts alone will cut it. I believe the ironic thing is that if chevy responds it might drive the price up on the zl1.

This war gets more interesting by the day....
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:20 PM   #419
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So you get 650 HP with the F car and should/will pay more for it then you will for the ZL1. Lets see, you spend more money, for more of something 80% (or more) will never use. How many will actually use the 580 HP the ZL1 has? If its about bragging rights and image you can always find something to spend more money on then what you already have.

To be honest, if they built a 2SS/RS to look exactly like the ZL1, left the LS3 in it, I would be just as happy with it. For me, its about the look and the sound. I have loved the look of the 5 generation since I first saw it. I don't know if there are many more of you that are like me, but, I really don't care how much HP they put in a shelby or a chally or any other car.

The camaro is a thing of beauty!
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:22 PM   #420
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This war gets more interesting by the day....
Indeed. Nothing is fair in Love and War.
It is the silent one (dodge) id be wanting to check out.
They will have to answer the call to arms sooner or later I would think.
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