Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Rick@Livernois
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons

Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-11-2009, 04:12 AM   #1
detroitboy
Pinholic
 
detroitboy's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 Silverado, 08 Shelby GT500 Conv.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Macomb, Mi
Posts: 698
Timing chain failures on LS3 vettes

I just tripped over a thread on digitalcorvettes.com discussing timing chain failures on the LS3 engines. It seems that it is not an unheard of event after upgrading to a more healthy camshaft.
I'll keep looking for more info, but it could be a sign that we don't want to start doing things too soon to our cars that might void our factory warranties. I've been thru these catastrophic failures that occur when valves start hitting pistons. Its not pretty, and its not cheap. Is anyone else aware of some of the vette motors grenading from this?
__________________
Almost had a 2SS/RS, IOM, orange accent interior, 6 speed manual, sunroof & polished wheels

ordered 01/19/07
3000 - 2/27/09
3400 - 3/27/09
3800 - 4/17/09 (built and lost in the vortex)
ship date ??????? (I gave up and got a GT500)
5/11/09 - order cancelled
5/27/09 - vehicle arrived at dealership for whoever bought it after me
detroitboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 04:52 AM   #2
Robin Lawrence
 
Robin Lawrence's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 69 Nova
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Galesburg, Illinois
Posts: 447
Most were similar situatons. Road racing, aftermarket balancers and aftermarket cams.

I would recomend staying with a stock or high quality balancer if you need to road race.

In all my testing I have not seen any problems with the stock setup.

Robin
__________________
Holley Performance Products

Robin Lawrence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 05:23 AM   #3
ADM PERFORMANCE

 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 #138
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DfW - Texas
Posts: 3,779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Lawrence View Post

In all my testing I have not seen any problems with the stock setup.

Robin

Than you my friend need to spend more time in the shop than on the computer.

Every 2007-2009(Trailblazer SS,Corvette) that I have changed cams in had defective timing chain tensioners and chain combo's.These were stock vehicles with stock un touched balancers.

I will agree that we have seen many road race cars over the years with same issues(1997-current).I recommend stock balancers but will still sell aftermarket pulleys.

Sorry to rant ,but been there done that to many times to count!

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16174


Andy
ADM PERFORMANCE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 05:56 AM   #4
Robin Lawrence
 
Robin Lawrence's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 69 Nova
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Galesburg, Illinois
Posts: 447
LOL, maybe so...

The LS3 L92 chain tensioner is different than the LS1,LS2, LS7 style.

Harmonics on the crankshaft and camshaft are what kills the chains. In all the situations that I have seen if you control the harmonics then a stock chain works just fine.

I'll be playing on the Spin Tron with some stock components in a month or so.
While I cannot duplicate the accel/decell or the harmonics of a crankshaft I can try to kill the chain with valve spring and RPM.

An aftermarket chain is cheap insurance while you have the timing cover off.

Robin
__________________
Holley Performance Products

Robin Lawrence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 06:21 AM   #5
GTAwheelman
 
Drives: 1985 Camaro Sport Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Lawrence View Post
LOL, maybe so...

The LS3 L92 chain tensioner is different than the LS1,LS2, LS7 style.

Harmonics on the crankshaft and camshaft are what kills the chains. In all the situations that I have seen if you control the harmonics then a stock chain works just fine.

I'll be playing on the Spin Tron with some stock components in a month or so.
While I cannot duplicate the accel/decell or the harmonics of a crankshaft I can try to kill the chain with valve spring and RPM.

An aftermarket chain is cheap insurance while you have the timing cover off.

Robin

thats what i was thinking. why not just upgrade to a stronger chain while you are down there?
GTAwheelman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 08:54 AM   #6
ADM PERFORMANCE

 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 #138
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DfW - Texas
Posts: 3,779
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTAwheelman View Post
thats what i was thinking. why not just upgrade to a stronger chain while you are down there?

The Katech chain is your best option.
ADM PERFORMANCE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 11:33 AM   #7
Super83Z
 
Super83Z's Avatar
 
Drives: 1999 Z28 1983 Z28
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: City of Champions,MA
Posts: 616
Stock parts are designed to work with stock parts. I would definately upgrade the timing chain if I was doing the cam.
__________________
Current cars:
1983 Z28
1999 Z28
201x Z28?
Super83Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 01:58 PM   #8
detroitboy
Pinholic
 
detroitboy's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 Silverado, 08 Shelby GT500 Conv.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Macomb, Mi
Posts: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super83Z View Post
Stock parts are designed to work with stock parts. I would definately upgrade the timing chain if I was doing the cam.
It was also posted that they were breaking the double row chains too, and I think they needed a special timing chain cover to fit the double row chain. I'd bet that they were running some pretty exotic cam figures to break those too. Too busy to search all the vette threads right now, but we all might have to look at this issue more before causing problems.
Damn...I wish the LS7 would have been an option. I'm actually still considering doing it later. But then whats my chance of tearing up clutches and rear ends?
I probably should've just gotten a 2SS with no options and used the difference towards the LS7. I know a guy who has enough parts to do it, and the rest of what he needs is already on our cars.
__________________
Almost had a 2SS/RS, IOM, orange accent interior, 6 speed manual, sunroof & polished wheels

ordered 01/19/07
3000 - 2/27/09
3400 - 3/27/09
3800 - 4/17/09 (built and lost in the vortex)
ship date ??????? (I gave up and got a GT500)
5/11/09 - order cancelled
5/27/09 - vehicle arrived at dealership for whoever bought it after me
detroitboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 02:08 PM   #9
Hylton


 
Hylton's Avatar
 
Drives: fanboys and ass kissers crazy.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 7,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Lawrence View Post
Most were similar situatons. Road racing, aftermarket balancers and aftermarket cams.

I would recomend staying with a stock or high quality balancer if you need to road race.

In all my testing I have not seen any problems with the stock setup.

Robin
Hi Robin,

Do you think going with GM's hot cam and nothing else will be fine on the timing chain?
__________________
"BBOMG - More than just a car show.... It's an experience!"
Hylton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 02:18 PM   #10
speedster
SST...
 
speedster's Avatar
 
Drives: SST Camaro 2010
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: East Coast of Florida
Posts: 6,057
Enthusiasts that spend the money on a high performance cam/higher spring tension/aftermarket balancer/higher engine rpm without buying an aftermarket timing chain/gear/belt only have themselves to blame. That's like putting a 250 shot of nitrous into a stock engine. It will probably fail. Just a matter of when.
__________________
speedster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 03:05 PM   #11
CamaroSpike23
Mr. Nitpicky
 
CamaroSpike23's Avatar
 
Drives: anything I can get my hands on
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,861
Send a message via Yahoo to CamaroSpike23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE View Post
The Katech chain is your best option.


Katech anything is a very good option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedster View Post
Enthusiasts that spend the money on a high performance cam/higher spring tension/aftermarket balancer/higher engine rpm without buying an aftermarket timing chain/gear/belt only have themselves to blame. That's like putting a 250 shot of nitrous into a stock engine. It will probably fail. Just a matter of when.
more like people who throw a donkey dick cam on a car without upgrading the springs/pushrods.
__________________
Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogwinters View Post
Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
CamaroSpike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 03:08 PM   #12
Hylton


 
Hylton's Avatar
 
Drives: fanboys and ass kissers crazy.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 7,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
more like people who throw a donkey dick cam on a car without upgrading the springs/pushrods.
You come up with the funniest stuff sometimes.....
__________________
"BBOMG - More than just a car show.... It's an experience!"
Hylton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 03:15 PM   #13
CamaroSpike23
Mr. Nitpicky
 
CamaroSpike23's Avatar
 
Drives: anything I can get my hands on
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,861
Send a message via Yahoo to CamaroSpike23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hylton View Post
You come up with the funniest stuff sometimes.....
thats just the way ive always referred to huge OMGWTFBBQ cams that only make power between 6000 and 7000rpms. power curve looks like mount everest. granted, its pushing donkey buttloads of power, but only at peak rpm. I like my power under the curve.

and we've got a local guy with a stock cammed GTO pushing 430+hp N/A. dont need a big cam to make power.
__________________
Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogwinters View Post
Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
CamaroSpike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 03:39 PM   #14
Super83Z
 
Super83Z's Avatar
 
Drives: 1999 Z28 1983 Z28
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: City of Champions,MA
Posts: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
thats just the way ive always referred to huge OMGWTFBBQ cams that only make power between 6000 and 7000rpms. power curve looks like mount everest. granted, its pushing donkey buttloads of power, but only at peak rpm. I like my power under the curve.

and we've got a local guy with a stock cammed GTO pushing 430+hp N/A. dont need a big cam to make power.
I used to give a couple of friends a hard time who thought that way. I asked them how they would order a cam, just flip to the back of the catalog and pick the last one on the page?
__________________
Current cars:
1983 Z28
1999 Z28
201x Z28?
Super83Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 04:33 PM   #15
CamaroSpike23
Mr. Nitpicky
 
CamaroSpike23's Avatar
 
Drives: anything I can get my hands on
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,861
Send a message via Yahoo to CamaroSpike23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super83Z View Post
I used to give a couple of friends a hard time who thought that way. I asked them how they would order a cam, just flip to the back of the catalog and pick the last one on the page?
__________________
Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogwinters View Post
Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
CamaroSpike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 06:53 PM   #16
mike@newera

 
mike@newera's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2ss L99 A6
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 492
Are these people having issues using the stock tensioner? The stock tensioner is what fails and in some cases this can take out the chain. We have done a lot of testing with camshafts and multiple timing chain set ups with the G8 GT. Many people with this platform which is just like what is in the new Camaro, have taking their engine apart to do a cam swap and found their stock tensioner already in pieces, we switch to the Gen 4 timing chain damper which does okay and use the stock timing chain, everyone is doing this with the G8 right now and noone has had a problem, it is reinforced better than the old ls1 chains. To put a double roller chain in, you have to grind a rediculous amount of material of the timing chain cover. So, with all the testing that New Era and quite a few other shops have been doing with the G8, use the stock timing chain unless you are going with a very radical set up, and get rid of the stock timing chain tensioner, and switch to the Gen 4 damper used in 05-06 gtos and 05-07 vettes.
mike@newera is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LS3 engine specifications Tran Wiki 3 10-06-2010 10:56 PM
mod Ls3 and timing chains 2SSRS@Gen5diy Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 11 09-15-2010 09:13 AM
LS3 Specs revealed: GM's 436hp Sick 6.2L LS3 TAG UR IT Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 28 07-30-2009 06:02 PM
5th Gen Camaro LS3 info from Chevy Hi-Po...READ TAG UR IT Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 295 03-07-2008 10:06 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.