My thoughts on all of ZL1 and GT500 discussions going on.

[BaylorCamaro]

I think people need to take a minute and chill out! Look at what we have right now (especially during this economic time) it is pretty impressive to me. Despite the car industry suffering along with the economy. Ford, Chevy and even Dodge are doing some pretty amazing things with their respective sports/muscle cars and I them for that.

Now this iconic war between Ford and Chevy has gone on for such a long time and will continue to do so. Each side has their own fan boys that will defend their brand to the death, and that's just how it's going to be. I am all to used to this, the college I attend has a car club, and just about everyone in the club is a Ford person. I'll post things on our forum about GM/Chevy related things (usually Camaro) and I get so MUCH flak from them saying things as to how ugly it is, how over weight it is, blah blah blah. Most of the main posters on our forum have already graduated but still lurk the forums. However I have never seen a larger group of complete @$$holes and if you don't believe me, then PM and I'll give you a link. The point I'm making is you can really turn someone off when there is constant subjective bashing going on.

I think we all need to take a step back and try to be as objective as possible. The ZL1 is an amazing car and the best Camaro ever produced, with some amazing technology and you cannot argue with its impressive times around the Nurembergring. However, I'd like to also commend Ford with what they have done. One member said on here that there is no company that does more with less than Ford, and I agree. The 5.0 is damn impressive, the Boss is absolutely amazing and I have no doubt in my mind that the 2013 GT500 will be jaw dropping. However, we need to keep in mind the reason why these numbers keep getting better and better is because of the competition. I know this has been said countless times on here before, but I really believe it to be the truth.

Whether you're a Chevrolet, Ford or Dodge fan you have to be pretty impressed with what is going on in the industry. I know I sure am proud of the American Auto Industry right now! :flag2:

Anyways just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth.

[MikeL]

It was war we wanted, and it is war we got. We all benefit from this kind of war .

[HDDAN]

It is the 1960's all over again. Hurray!! I love what is happening, but beware the nanny-nanny-booboos that will start complaining about it. I watched it happen with sporting motorcycles. They tried to ban them! They don't mind having $200,000.00, 200 MPH Mercedeses around, they object to having $55,000.00 180 MPH cars around that a lot of people can actually afford to own. I can already see the episode of Sixty Minutes with the "Killer Car" segment. That is what they tried to do to the Japanese motorcycle manufacturers in the 1980's.

[_Nick_]

Originally Posted by HDDAN

It is the 1960's all over again. Hurray!

Oh yeah, definitely When everything but the few American performance cars has a little 4/6 cylinder, same repetitive styling, garbage FWD platforms, and a boring interior.

[oldbowtie]

I grew up in a family where my dad was a GM tool & die guy. He finished his career with GM after 40 years. He never said anything negative about Ford..."...they make some nice cars, but I'd rather drive a Chevy..."

I've never had anything but a GM product in my garage. I agree, this type of competition is good. It keeps both companies on their toes. I like it.

Former rides:

1966 Chevelle (1971 to 2007)
1970 Chevelle (1974 to 1991)

[SWAT]

Originally Posted by HDDAN

It is the 1960's all over again. Hurray!! I love what is happening, but beware the nanny-nanny-booboos that will start complaining about it. I watched it happen with sporting motorcycles. They tried to ban them! They don't mind having $200,000.00, 200 MPH Mercedeses around, they object to having $55,000.00 180 MPH cars around that a lot of people can actually afford to own. I can already see the episode of Sixty Minutes with the "Killer Car" segment. That is what they tried to do to the Japanese motorcycle manufacturers in the 1980's.

Remember the VMAX, in about 85 I think it was? Didn't they stop making it because there were many deaths associated with it?

[HDDAN]

Originally Posted by SWAT

Remember the VMAX, in about 85 I think it was? Didn't they stop making it because there were many deaths associated with it?

No, they were one of the companies that the nannies were after. Remember the car hop add? That was the one where Mr. Max rider did a burnout and made the girl on skates toss the tray into the air.They updated the V-max a couple of years ago. It is much more expensive now and they are built to order. It was in production for over twenty years. The bike that I owned at the time that they werer trying to ban them was a Ninja 1000R. Their adds said that they were so fast that they included a change of underwear with each bike. It was a red set of long johns.

[SSBUSDRVR]

Well said. BaylorCamaro We all win in this battle and enjoy it while it lasts.

[SWAT]

Originally Posted by HDDAN

No, they were one of the companies that the nannies were after. Remember the car hop add? That was the one where Mr. Max rider did a burnout and made the girl on skates toss the tray into the air.They updated the V-max a couple of years ago. It is much more expensive now and they are built to order. It was in production for over twenty years. The bike that I owned at the time that they werer trying to ban them was a Ninja 1000R. Their adds said that they were so fast that they included a change of underwear with each bike. It was a red set of long johns.

Oh, I remember a bunch of contraversy involving the VMAX, but I was young & don't remember the details. The ZX10 was a bad machine. I remember when the Ninja came out, I think it was a 900 back in 84 & Tom sported it in TOP GUN.

[Neos281]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

Anyways just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth.

Very insightful post my friend. I could not agree more that Detroit is providing for some awe-inspiring enjoyment. What an amazing decade to be apart of!

-ACU Alumni

[Tigg]

Originally Posted by Neos281

Very insightful post my friend. I could not agree more that Detroit is providing for some awe-inspiring enjoyment. What an amazing decade to be apart of!

-ACU Alumni

[blackswan]

YANKEES SUCK!

[CamaroSkooter]

The new muscle car wars are definately awe inspiring. I'm just to see what happens when the ZL1 and GT500 come out and "too many self-indulgent wieners...with too much bloody money" (to quote Mr. Cage) go out and buy either one and have no idea how to handle a performance machine with that much power.

[Dave Coyle]

I agree, I have been driving high HP cars all my life and can tell you that if someone gets into one of these new high HP cars and has never driven anything close to these HP figures, well, just let me say that there is going to be a lot of recked cars and I hope that the people driving them come out of the crash OK! I love what the auto makers are doing for us right now!!! I leave the electric cars to those of love them, for me, it is the gas drinking high horse power cars that are coming out!!!! I love them all but I am a true Chevrolet lover at heart!!!!

[Blue Maro Demon]

This IS personal! Ford pretty much owned not only Camaro in general yesterday but pretty much Chevrolet as a whole. The Corvette was even put on notice yesterday except for a ZR-1 Vette. Now the Ford lovers can brag that they have a bigger engine than GM does from the factory. If I was Chevrolet I would take this personal and do everything in their arsenal to own the Mustang and Ford so bad they will have no choice sooner than later to stop building Mustangs.
This was calculated by Ford to happen right before the ZL1 prices were announced so they wanted to screw them over before the car could even be released to the public. Also Chevrolet needs to get over thinking the Camaro is eating into Vette sales and make a higher performing Camaro if need be. These are two different markets. And they arent garnering any or many sales from Corvette right now anyway except from guys in their 60's mostly with the Vette. In this market you either come out swinging or you get embarassed and lately Chevrolet has been getting embarassed.
In fact I would be putting as many resources if not more into the Camaro than I would the Vette seeing as the Camaro is generating more sales since its at a lower price point. I hope that Chevrolet has an answer to this and an even BIGGER screw you to Ford after what they pulled yesterday. We are already beating them in the pocket in sales where it hurts now its time to beat them in performance too. We all know the next gen Mustang will be out within the next couple years so Chevrolet should be perfecting the alpha platform and making it as light as possible. I know they are hard at work on the ATS right now. Chevrolet should make sure the 6th Gen Camaro Alpha platform is lighter than the next gen Mustang then it will be over for them. Once Ford releases the weight and info on the new Stang make the next-gen Camaro considerably lighter and go from there. The 5th Gen Camaro simply isnt and wont cut it with its weight.

[PoorMansCamaro]

pretty sure the new gt500 will be a huge flop. maybe it's just me.

[kiteman]

i think well over 80% of those discussing the topic have no intentions of buying either car and/or can't afford either car, so why are those people wasting their energy talking about it?

[fbodfather]

In an airport and have to run to catch a plane in a few moments....will address more later but:

>Baylor airforce - you continue to impress me with your understanding of many things - and this was a great post.

>BlueMaro - I'm sorry, but I don't think many people see that Chevrolet has been embarrassed......for many reasons.

First - Mustand is their performance car - it's their Camaro and their Corvette.
Second - you and I have no idea of how the 650hp will perform -- at least yet. (how do you get it to hook up?) Third - it's also about overall performance on a track - not just straightline - and if you DO want straightline, I'm sure that SLP/Berger/Tom Henry can get it for you for less.....
Lastly - let's look at the performance of Fomoco versus GM - show me their CTS-V family.

What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy.

More to come.

[foreignl99]

Great this is happening but imo these cars aren't worth what they are asking for. 55k for a zl1? 60k for gt500?

:/.

Awesome times but this war is overpricing the hell out of these cars.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

In an airport and have to run to catch a plane in a few moments....will address more later but:

>Baylor airforce - you continue to impress me with your understanding of many things - and this was a great post.

>BlueMaro - I'm sorry, but I don't think many people see that Chevrolet has been embarrassed......for many reasons.

First - Mustand is their performance car - it's their Camaro and their Corvette.
Second - you and I have no idea of how the 650hp will perform -- at least yet. (how do you get it to hook up?) Third - it's also about overall performance on a track - not just straightline - and if you DO want straightline, I'm sure that SLP/Berger/Tom Henry can get it for you for less.....
Lastly - let's look at the performance of Fomoco versus GM - show me their CTS-V family.

What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy.

More to come.

Thanks, 'father. I think many people just needed to hear this. Travel safe

Nominated as POTD

[thespymaster]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

In an airport and have to run to catch a plane in a few moments....will address more later but:

>Baylor airforce - you continue to impress me with your understanding of many things - and this was a great post.

>BlueMaro - I'm sorry, but I don't think many people see that Chevrolet has been embarrassed......for many reasons.

First - Mustand is their performance car - it's their Camaro and their Corvette.
Second - you and I have no idea of how the 650hp will perform -- at least yet. (how do you get it to hook up?) Third - it's also about overall performance on a track - not just straightline - and if you DO want straightline, I'm sure that SLP/Berger/Tom Henry can get it for you for less.....
Lastly - let's look at the performance of Fomoco versus GM - show me their CTS-V family.

What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy.

More to come.

Well written response....

I have and always be a pure GM owner, don't care if the Mutang was 1000 hp at the same price, would not buy it!

Having the Z06, CTS-V, several GM trucks, I can't wait to get behind the wheel of my new ZL1.......

[MikeSS18]

How is Ford owning/winning anything? The car isnt out yet??? No one has anything to brag about because THE CAR ISNT OUT YET??
Im glad there is competition but come on give me a break.

[kbui]

Originally Posted by foreignl99

Great this is happening but imo these cars aren't worth what they are asking for. 55k for a zl1? 60k for gt500?

:/.

Awesome times but this war is overpricing the hell out of these cars.

Disagree with this assertion. The WAR is giving bargain factory performance cars. Where else can you get a 580HP, magnetic ride, technologies that allowed the ZL1 that performed at that level on the 'ring....all for 55K?

[OLD_GOAT]

Originally Posted by kiteman

i think well over 80% of those discussing the topic have no intentions of buying either car and/or can't afford either car, so why are those people wasting their energy talking about it?

Because without active threads, these forums would die.

I appreciate the original post by Baylor Camaro. I was around in the mid-late 1970's and was in my mid 20's, single, and with some pocket money. I bought a 1976 455 Trans-Am, which was one of the fastest cars around, with a great quarter mile time in the high 15's or low 16's.

So any time I see these performance cars with the high horsepower outputs, it's a good day. By being around during the dark days where performance was minimal, as was the speed limit with it's 55 mph limits, I have a great appreciation for what is going on.

Even though I'm a Pontiac guy at heart, I appreciate all American performance cars be it Ford, Chevy, Cadillac or whatever. By the way, the idea of a Cadillac being considered a performance car with 12 second quarter mile times, years ago, would have been unbelievable.

Guys, it's great days we're living in.

One more thing, these cars are turning great quarter mile times, not even talking about the ZL1 or Shelby, talking Camaro and Mustang, all of this is done with every creature comfort available, such as CD players, air conditioning, power this and that.

[SSBUSDRVR]

In an airport and have to run to catch a plane in a few moments....will address more later but:

>Baylor airforce - you continue to impress me with your understanding of many things - and this was a great post.

>BlueMaro - I'm sorry, but I don't think many people see that Chevrolet has been embarrassed......for many reasons.

First - Mustand is their performance car - it's their Camaro and their Corvette.
Second - you and I have no idea of how the 650hp will perform -- at least yet. (how do you get it to hook up?) Third - it's also about overall performance on a track - not just straightline - and if you DO want straightline, I'm sure that SLP/Berger/Tom Henry can get it for you for less.....
Lastly - let's look at the performance of Fomoco versus GM - show me their CTS-V family.

What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy.

More to come.

Safe Travels.