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Old 11-16-2011, 09:54 AM   #1
2012camaro2SS/RS
 
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I need Help Choosing a Suspension Upgrade.

Right now I have everything stock on my 12' Camaro SS suspension wise.

The Camaro has some wheel hop, rear end sway and cornering weaknesses. I used to drive a 09' 335i and it handled a lot better when taking turns above 60mph(mountain fun), going from 0-60 without slipping as much, as well as feeling more in control of the car at higher speeds.
Does a stiffer suspension cause this on the BMW?

What is the best thing I can do for my Camaro Suspension that will
1. Reduce wheel hop when going from 0-60/quarter mile
2. Improve handling and traction when: cornering, slalom type driving and quarter mile?

I am not trying to make this car a stiff and uncomfortable ride(daily driver).

I am open to ANY suggestions and all input

All I know about is Hotckis and PFADT Engineering. But there are a ton of different options that seem to overlap each other in what they do for your car. I am confused and need you all's pro advice.

Please Help!

-Dylan
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:58 AM   #2
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Your going to want trailing arms, rear differential and cradle bushings (street or race version up to you), probably a set of coil overs, adjustable sway bars (front and rear), strut tower brace, and I think that's most of it. But I probably missed one or two things.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:03 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stieger View Post
Your going to want trailing arms, rear differential and cradle bushings (street or race version up to you), probably a set of coil overs, adjustable sway bars (front and rear), strut tower brace, and I think that's most of it. But I probably missed one or two things.
Do you think Pedders springs are a good cheaper alt to coil overs? It's so much money for coil overs.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:08 AM   #4
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Do you think Pedders springs are a good cheaper alt to coil overs? It's so much money for coil overs.
Yes. I suggested coil overs because of how the OP described his driving habits. For what he wants to do coil overs would be the best bet, but that's not saying that springs wouldn't be an improvement.
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:09 PM   #5
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Hey Dylan! The Camaro does have it's pros and cons, especially when compared to the 335 you had before. There are absolutely some things that you can do to bring the handling of your Camaro beyond where your previous BMW was.

First thing we would suggest is a set of sway bars. The Camaro is big and heavy and really soaks up increases in roll resistance very well. It's not easy to remove 500 pounds of weight from your Camaro, but a well designed sway bar package can make it feel like it has. Sway bars will help the overall balance of the car by moving it's normal tendency from understeer back to neutral. We took a video during our development process to help show the differences between the stock sway bar package and our Sport sway bars:



More upgrades to consider are our Solid Subframe Mounts and a Trailing Arm package. The rear end of the Camaro has room for quite a bit of improvement for a performance application, and it starts at the Trailing Arms and Subframe Mounts. On hard launches the rear trailing arms can deflect, and the rear subframe will bound around on it's soft rubber bushings. Both of these are major contributors to wheel hop. After some strategic modifications to the rear end you will not only be able to more effectively put power down at the drag strip but really increase the handling capability of your car as well. When we were doing the development of our subframe mounts we also looked at manufacturing a Cross Brace as well, but found that we could get more performance improvement without adding weight or complexity to the bottom of your Camaro by just replacing the Subframe Mounts. Take a look at another video focusing on the rear subframe and you can see how much difference there is after subframe mounts and trailing arms:



Depending on your budget and your performance goals there are a couple different sways you can go with your spring and shock package. If you're looking to drop the car for a more aggressive stance but don't necissarily need the flexibility of coilovers we offer a drop spring kit for the V8 that will lower the car 1.25 inches, which in our opinion is the best balance of improved visual appearance, performance and shock life. Much lower than 1.25 inches on the stock shocks and you run the risk of shortening the overall life of the shock, and degrading the handling of your Camaro.

If you were looking for a more flexible system we do also offer a custom engineered coilover package that offers both ride height control and adjustable dampers. With our coilover system you can drop your Camaro up to 1.5 inches without worry, and really tune the ride characteristics to exactly what you're doing with your Camaro. If you're heading to the drag strip it's extremely easy to tune the car for an optimized drag setup, if you're heading to the Autocross or Road Course you can tune the car stiffer for increased response, and for just daily driving you can find an extremely comfortable ride. All of this is offered in one convenient package that is a direct bolt on installation and was designed specifically for your Camaro.



There are a bunch of different ways to look at modifying your Camaro. All of the above will provide a great ride quality on the street, while drastically improving the handling and fun factor of your Camaro. If you've got any questions please shoot us an email over to info@pfadtracing.com and we can talk about what you want to do with the car and how our parts can get you there!
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Old 11-16-2011, 02:20 PM   #6
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Thanks Pfadt!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PfadtRacing View Post
Hey Dylan! The Camaro does have it's pros and cons, especially when compared to the 335 you had before. There are absolutely some things that you can do to bring the handling of your Camaro beyond where your previous BMW was.

First thing we would suggest is a set of sway bars. The Camaro is big and heavy and really soaks up increases in roll resistance very well. It's not easy to remove 500 pounds of weight from your Camaro, but a well designed sway bar package can make it feel like it has. Sway bars will help the overall balance of the car by moving it's normal tendency from understeer back to neutral.

There are a bunch of different ways to look at modifying your Camaro. All of the above will provide a great ride quality on the street, while drastically improving the handling and fun factor of your Camaro. If you've got any questions please shoot us an email over to info@pfadtracing.com and we can talk about what you want to do with the car and how our parts can get you there!
I really appreciate all the information. I definitely want sway bars and trailing arms from Pfadt(with the goal of having no understeer or wheel hop). Still debating on the drop springs!! I like that stance quite a bit, but if I can get the handling I desire from the sways and trailing arms, that would probably be my route. I will email you soon!
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Old 11-16-2011, 02:52 PM   #7
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We also have some options that ould really help out the handling of the car and not break the bank. Our parts are made here in our facility so we can keep the end price down and give the customer the best deal possible.

The parts you should really look at for the wheel hop would be the trailing arms, toe rods, differential bushings, and rear cradle bushings. We have a couple different options for each part depending on how much power and what kind of driving you are looking to do with the car. These parts will also help in the handling department but you will want to add a few things to that list to really get your Camaro handling like you want. A good set of sway bars and lowering springs or coil-overs would be a real good place to start depending on your budget.

Here is a link to our 2010+ Camaro parts we have available, let me know if you have any questions or if there is something I can help you out with.

BMR 2010+ Camaro parts
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Old 11-16-2011, 03:31 PM   #8
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I suggest you get the full Hotchkis track pack, it is really is a great complete kit and we install a TON of these. Unless your tracking the car this track pack will really make you happy without breaking your wallet. can't beat it and the install is a breeze.
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Old 11-16-2011, 04:46 PM   #9
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Dylan the Pedders drop springs have a great stance to them, but bought as a Street II kit makes a better value to help the overall handling of the car.This kit includes the foundational bushings and adjustment kit with the drop springs.There is a Pedders pace car kit that has the coil overs,sway bars and bushings that you may want to consider,this one of our most popular kits it is worth a look before you decide.Here is a set of Pedders drop springs installed.
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Old 11-16-2011, 04:53 PM   #10
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Hey Dylan... From another daily 2010 2SS RS driver

I feel your pain. After back surgery I want to be comfortable and have high performance. I live in Moorpark and drove up to Oxnard to see what Granatelli had to offer. Sooo worth the drive. I can't do the install so they did and here is what I had them do at their suggestions.

1. 2010 - 2012 Camaro 1G Suspension Bracing Package... This alone vastly improver grip in straight runs and 101 to Malibu drives... If you know what I mean.

2.Camaro Rear Lower Control Arms... These stopped the hop from starts and sudden excellerations that the chevy parts could not stop.


This is all you'll need for now and all under a grand ( I think due to Black Friday Sale I got 35% of web prices).

I plan on going all the way with this car as I want it all. But within my fixed budget.

I know this will help as it does for mine... Chris

So you don't have to look... Here's the info

http://www.granatellimotorsports.com
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Last edited by sweasey; 11-16-2011 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 11-16-2011, 04:56 PM   #11
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Here is the difference between Chevy and GMS control arms

Have Fun!
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweasey View Post
Have Fun!
I wonder what the price is on trailing arms? I've heard they really help traction issues at the strip. I PMed Pfadt long time ago but never got a response...
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:33 PM   #13
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PM Sent!

They really do help reduce wheel hop when you're launching the car when you're at the strip, or help you put power more effectively down coming out of corners.
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012camaro2SS/RS View Post
Right now I have everything stock on my 12' Camaro SS suspension wise.

The Camaro has some wheel hop, rear end sway and cornering weaknesses. I used to drive a 09' 335i and it handled a lot better when taking turns above 60mph(mountain fun), going from 0-60 without slipping as much, as well as feeling more in control of the car at higher speeds.
Does a stiffer suspension cause this on the BMW?

What is the best thing I can do for my Camaro Suspension that will
1. Reduce wheel hop when going from 0-60/quarter mile
2. Improve handling and traction when: cornering, slalom type driving and quarter mile?

I am not trying to make this car a stiff and uncomfortable ride(daily driver).

I am open to ANY suggestions and all input

All I know about is Hotckis and PFADT Engineering. But there are a ton of different options that seem to overlap each other in what they do for your car. I am confused and need you all's pro advice.

Please Help!

-Dylan
Sways, springs, rear cradle bushings not inserts,(waste of time), Radius bush mod, endlinks a must with upgraded sways, rear trailing arm upgrade and toelink arm upgrade. If you want to corner like an M3 instead of a 335 I would get BMRs rear drag bar, Pfadts, Hotchkis competition kits or Pedders solution C and kiss understeer good bye in extreme conditions. My Hotchkis 35mm rear comp bar set to full stiff feels not stiff at all but corners Freaking fantastic. Out cornered an e46 M3 so far like it was going straight, I couldn't believe it. The Camaro SS chassis is very well balanced and the weight distribution is to die for, better than a 335. Great balanced chassis with lousy stock suspension = GEN 5 Camaro SS. Now give it a good dose of suspension mods from any one of our vendors and watch it turn into a supercar, no joke.
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:15 PM   #15
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Im very Happy With My Hotchkis Track Pack!!
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:27 PM   #16
L99CAMA2011


 
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Also I wish the experts on here would explain the full remedy to curing wheel hop. Honestly the old replace control arm thing is not the full cure. Wheel hop is the vertical movement of the wheel not lateral or front to rear. Proper dampening is also required whether from tire pressure with stock tires or drags, springs and shocks/struts or coilover dampening adjustment is also required in order to really cure wheel hop. Right now I have trailing arms and toe link arm upgrades and at 23000 miles the stock suspension is going south and now again my rear hops like it did before my arms upgrade.
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddunerider View Post
Im very Happy With My Hotchkis Track Pack!!
No you're happy cause you car looks so damn good. Also how in the world can you stand to autocross with stock radius bushings.
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:03 AM   #18
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Awesome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweasey View Post
I feel your pain. After back surgery I want to be comfortable and have high performance. I live in Moorpark and drove up to Oxnard to see what Granatelli had to offer. Sooo worth the drive. I can't do the install so they did and here is what I had them do at their suggestions.

1. 2010 - 2012 Camaro 1G Suspension Bracing Package... This alone vastly improver grip in straight runs and 101 to Malibu drives... If you know what I mean.

2.Camaro Rear Lower Control Arms... These stopped the hop from starts and sudden excellerations that the chevy parts could not stop.

I plan on going all the way with this car as I want it all. But within my fixed budget.

I know this will help as it does for mine... Chris
Hey Chris, sorry to hear about your back. It sounds like you want to do the exact same thing as me and with a budget. Haha, good to know others are suffering with adding shit on to our cars constantly.
I want to do what you have done with yours, just havent got an order ready. When I do, I will prbly get quite a bit for the suspension. I want to change some looks on my car too...FML
So much to add.
Gives me something to look forward to in my freetime(searching for this stuff)
Thanks for your information man!
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:03 AM   #19
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+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011 View Post
Also I wish the experts on here would explain the full remedy to curing wheel hop. Honestly the old replace control arm thing is not the full cure. Wheel hop is the vertical movement of the wheel not lateral or front to rear. Proper dampening is also required whether from tire pressure with stock tires or drags, springs and shocks/struts or coilover dampening adjustment is also required in order to really cure wheel hop. Right now I have trailing arms and toe link arm upgrades and at 23000 miles the stock suspension is going south and now again my rear hops like it did before my arms upgrade.
+1
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:09 AM   #20
2012camaro2SS/RS
 
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Hey

Quote:
Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011 View Post
Sways, springs, rear cradle bushings not inserts,(waste of time), Radius bush mod, endlinks a must with upgraded sways, rear trailing arm upgrade and toelink arm upgrade. If you want to corner like an M3 instead of a 335 I would get BMRs rear drag bar, Pfadts, Hotchkis competition kits or Pedders solution C and kiss understeer good bye in extreme conditions. My Hotchkis 35mm rear comp bar set to full stiff feels not stiff at all but corners Freaking fantastic. Out cornered an e46 M3 so far like it was going straight, I couldn't believe it. The Camaro SS chassis is very well balanced and the weight distribution is to die for, better than a 335. Great balanced chassis with lousy stock suspension = GEN 5 Camaro SS. Now give it a good dose of suspension mods from any one of our vendors and watch it turn into a supercar, no joke.
haha someone isnt driving to shabby of rides are they?? M3? and Ive driven all of the bmws quite a bit, new ones too. Own 3 in different models. M3 to me handled amazing but I couldnt tell a huge difference besides it was just so much more stiff than the 335i, and a little rough when compared at 335i. Nothing bad, just stiff for bmw. thats absolutely badass that you are beating m3s at cornering!! I totally agree with what you said, thats why I am dying to get this stuff.
I want to kill wheel hop completely. I love being fast 0-60. And I dont want understeer, like you said.
Thank you for your input!!
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:13 AM   #21
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Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR Sales View Post
We also have some options that ould really help out the handling of the car and not break the bank. Our parts are made here in our facility so we can keep the end price down and give the customer the best deal possible....Here is a link to our 2010+ Camaro parts we have available, let me know if you have any questions or if there is something I can help you out with.

BMR 2010+ Camaro parts
Hey BMR, thank you for the advice. I will let you know if I have any questions. Whats your company's best 2-3 items for the problems I am looking to cure here?
-Dylan
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:33 AM   #22
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Yet another option!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce@raymondsperformance View Post
Dylan the Pedders drop springs have a great stance to them, but bought as a Street II kit makes a better value to help the overall handling of the car.This kit includes the foundational bushings and adjustment kit with the drop springs.There is a Pedders pace car kit that has the coil overs,sway bars and bushings that you may want to consider,this one of our most popular kits it is worth a look before you decide.Here is a set of Pedders drop springs installed.
Thank you for your information and advice. I have seen some stuff about pedders recently when looking into this. These packages are definitely under my consideration now!
I am looking at some pedders stuff right now. I have read that pedders is very comfortable in other c5 forums.

Thank you 55design and Steiger! Good input!
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Old 11-17-2011, 05:28 AM   #23
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One more budget minded opinion:

1) Pfadt balance bar
2) Pedders Radius arm Inserts and Rear subframe inserts
(full rear bushings would be too firm for me)
3) SS shock/strut take offs from SLP
(check E-Bay: $39.95 for all four w/front endlinks)
Mine came off a 2012 V8- like new!
4) SS springs from someone unloading their old springs here on C5.
Avg $30-$50. Caught mine for $30 shipped.
Drops the rear end 3/4", front 1/8".
5) Pick up a SS front sway the same way.

Car runs dead level now, firm and controlled but still civilized. The level of handling exceeds the sum of its parts, and these are all mods you can perform yourself, avoiding the dreaded labor costs. Just an alignment when you're done. It sure works for me.

Wrote all that and just realised you've got an SS! Gotta quite posting when I can't sleep! Have fun with your upgrades...
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:07 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by sweasey View Post
Have Fun!
Nice BMR trailing arm!
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:54 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012camaro2SS/RS View Post
Hey BMR, thank you for the advice. I will let you know if I have any questions. Whats your company's best 2-3 items for the problems I am looking to cure here?
-Dylan
If there was 3 BMR parts I was going to use in your situation I would use the trailing arms to help with the wheel hop and the sway bars and lowering springs to help with the handling aspects. These parts overall would be inexpensive and really change up the feel of the car.
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