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Old 01-26-2012, 10:27 AM   #151
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Kevin, at no time did i mean to disrespect anyone at Majestic. I was merely commenting on what was previously posted by the OP and the numbers that he put down compared to everyone else with the same setups makes one conclude that the tune was VERY aggresive. If i had known the motor was out of oil i wouldnt have made the same conclusion. For the import remark i may have been off base but you have to aggree when you see the shops car and the amount of imports rocking Majestic stickers and what not in J-Ville one will assume it is a very Import minded shop. So with that being said i have seen some cars you have worked on and i know you do good work and didnt mean to step on any toes.
No problem, thanks, and i apologize if my reply was a little out of line as well. We honestly go to great lengths to try and break that image that we know a lot of people have about us being an import shop, and a lot of people that say this have never been to the shop. Either way, no hard feelings at all. We're having a huge 'import vs domestic' dyno day on feb. 4th and will be running both dyno's at the same time and allowing call out's and what not, kind of like a racing event but on the dyno's lol. I encourage anyone in the area who has not been to our facility to come check it out and see what we're really all about. Free food, and hopefully lots of high horsepower domestics and imports. I know this threads gotten way off topic so i'm gonna take a back seat approach unless there are any other questions i can help provide info for. I'll start a new thread with some pics of John's llt turbo kit.
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:29 AM   #152
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We actually tune more domestic cars than any other vehicles, and more aftermarket fi applications than cars 'designed to handle boost from the get go'. I've personally been tuning all platforms of fuel injection for almost 11 years and have multiple certifications and have trained all over the country, keep your ignorant comments on the shelf. On average, i personally tune 15-20 domestic applications (camaro's, mustangs, diesels, etc.) a month, and maybe 5-10 imports. I actually was unfamiliar with this platform at first and collaborated closely with Vince at trifecta on this tune and had him go over all of my logs. Ignorance is bliss lol. I fix tunes from shops all over the east coast from big name 'specialty shops'. It's funny how people think the further they drive for a tune, the better it must be, when in fact one of the nicest dyno facilities, housing 2 top of the line dyno's, as well as EFI University trained tuners, with countless certs pertaining to different software interfaces, and over 18 years combined tuning experience between the two tuners on site.... Just so happens our 'race' car is an import, and we don't have time to post info on every forum about every car we tune (that in itself would be a full time job), therefore people not seeing what really goes on in our dyno facility and making ASSumptions...

As far as the cause of this engine failure (hard to say the exact damage, as the motor has not been tore apart). No holes in the block, no oil/metal/or signs of detonation on plugs (no oil would indicate pistons/rings are most likely in tact, no holes would indicate rods are most likely in tact). 1 thing we did find, was no oil in the car.... I'm assuming due to no catch can with the isssues the llt has with crankcase pressure under boost. And the engine is seized, if i had to guess, i would say bearing failure, which doesn't 'sound like a bad tune' to me

You need to get with SC2150, he knows all about the crankcase pressure problems on boosted applications with the LLT. His suggestions helped my car out alot. I still eat alot of oil but only about 1 quart after 3000 miles after his suggested modifications.

72mm turbo kit must be nice!, is it remote or front mount? I'm running a 67mm and i had some surge issues (not bov related off-throttle surge) at low rpms with high boost (7.5-8psi). Most of it has gone away with my new anti-surge shroud though but still a little in higher gears, have you guys run into that issue?
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:00 PM   #153
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When you are taking a big leap such as going turbo it is very very important to monitor everything from KR, timing, AFR, oil pressure, fuel pressure, LTFT, STFT, boost, etc, etc.. I monitor my car every single time I drive and I am not even boosted. A very well known tuner once told me that whenever you start changing factory parameters you have to monitor the changes period! and by the time you wait for the CEL to come on or wait until you notice anything different... it might just be too late.

CJT, I can't wait to see your n/a project come alive I'll make sure I keep up with your project even after my camaro is gone.
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:53 PM   #154
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When you are taking a big leap such as going turbo it is very very important to monitor everything from KR, timing, AFR, oil pressure, fuel pressure, LTFT, STFT, boost, etc, etc.. I monitor my car every single time I drive and I am not even boosted. A very well known tuner once told me that whenever you start changing factory parameters you have to monitor the changes period! and by the time you wait for the CEL to come on or wait until you notice anything different... it might just be too late.

CJT, I can't wait to see your n/a project come alive I'll make sure I keep up with your project even after my camaro is gone.
What's that about buddy?!
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Old 01-26-2012, 03:45 PM   #155
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What's that about buddy?!
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Old 01-26-2012, 04:38 PM   #156
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What's that about buddy?!
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In a few months my car will be paid off plus it's tax season I am considering two things. Let her go or go FI. Decided to not go the n/a build route when eventually I will probably end up throwing a blower on top of it anyway. Just not exactly sure what I want to do or which way I am going to take. I am going through a few options right now but will know for sure around spring-early summer. Looking at a few possibilities but not for an SS or a V8. Whatever it is it will definitely be factory turbo'ed 4 cy(I am a sucker for awd ralli bred cars). I am thinking in the lines of, new 2013 turbo genesis coupe, Ford ST, Mitsu evo/ralliart, suby If I decide to get rid of my camaro it will be one of those I'm sure, but again, I might just go FI with the camaro. One of the two will definitely be in my future.
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Old 01-26-2012, 04:41 PM   #157
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SUBY OR EVO ALL DAY EVERYDAY

Although I think it would be cool for you to make a beast out of the V6 Camaro
Those EVOs can be made to destroy some serious cars and I know you would build a monster!
Either way keep us in the loop for sure.
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:53 PM   #158
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In a few months my car will be paid off plus it's tax season I am considering two things. Let her go or go FI. Decided to not go the n/a build route when eventually I will probably end up throwing a blower on top of it anyway. Just not exactly sure what I want to do or which way I am going to take. I am going through a few options right now but will know for sure around spring-early summer. Looking at a few possibilities but not for an SS or a V8. Whatever it is it will definitely be factory turbo'ed 4 cy(I am a sucker for awd ralli bred cars). I am thinking in the lines of, new 2013 turbo genesis coupe, Ford ST, Mitsu evo/ralliart, suby If I decide to get rid of my camaro it will be one of those I'm sure, but again, I might just go FI with the camaro. One of the two will definitely be in my future.
That sound cool either way you go! I had bought a Evo VIII back in 2005. Had everything HKS on it, intercooler, turbo timer, exhaust, fuel kit, down pipe, etc, etc! I was at 488rwhp/458rwtq at 19 psi's. launching it was easy unlike what this Camaro maybe at the track lol! BUT slow at top end power and rolls at high speeds.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:03 PM   #159
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SUBY OR EVO ALL DAY EVERYDAY

Although I think it would be cool for you to make a beast out of the V6 Camaro
Those EVOs can be made to destroy some serious cars and I know you would build a monster!
Either way keep us in the loop for sure.
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Originally Posted by Can't_C_Me View Post
That sound cool either way you go! I had bought a Evo VIII back in 2005. Had everything HKS on it, intercooler, turbo timer, exhaust, fuel kit, down pipe, etc, etc! I was at 488rwhp/458rwtq at 19 psi's. launching it was easy unlike what this Camaro maybe at the track lol! BUT slow at top end power and rolls at high speeds.
One of my most fun days modding was with suby's. That's how I caught the awd turbo fever lol. The mitsu's are freaking awesome too.. I heard lot's of good things about their SST dual clutch tranny which come standard on all 09+ ralliart and on evo MR. Some even say it's even better then a DSG box and the DSG box is awesome! Even the ralliart is very capable which has the same exact engine as the more expensive evo with the exception of a smaller turbo and intercooler which can be upgraded to evo's for a very mild price and it's even a direct fit. Not just evo's and suby's but most factory turbo'ed cars show results and don't cost that much to go fast. Look at scrming's flex, who would think that big ol brick can do mid 12's and now ready to hit probably 11's with just a meth kit and a tune. 335's with cobb's tune are extracting 100+ rwtq and those cars can handle the extra 100 torque all day!! It's getting harder and harder to hold on to my V6 camaro

edit: I meant scrming was running 13.5 with just a tune and probably ready to hit 12's with Meth kit. MY brain get locked sometimes lol.

Last edited by bmorecam; 01-26-2012 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:29 AM   #160
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Yeah Jay I know exactly what you mean. Plus the sound of those Evo and STI motors
I definitly learned about how awesome factory turbo cars can be from you man. I think the new g coupe turbos are going to be easy to boost some serious numbers
I love the Camaro. Just want more power, way more power and now we have soo many options for that
I'm not looking for a drag monster, I want a full out highway or street brawler but more importantly I want it to be strong and not blow up on me
I don't think I'll ever be happy with power and speed until I own a Underground twin turbo gallardo
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:23 AM   #161
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Well, in all fairness, CJT left out the fact he had NO OIL! Based on HIS description of the failure, he was certainly describing a motor destroyed due to detonation, which is usually a bad tune. Go back and read his description of destroyed pistons, etc... I think you would probably come to the same conclusion based on what he described...

As for the no oil.... well, we've seen that happen in basically STOCK LLTs! It has certainly happened in NON-BOOSTED LLTs! So for CJT to come in hear and say the LLT can't handle boost is really a bit off base... especially with the new information.... BTW, did he leave out any details on what happened to his first motor?

Thanks for taking to the time to sign up here and share your information... again, we can only go by what CJT told us... and it appears he didn't give us the full story...

I told yal everything they told me on the phone. i been out of town for maybe a week now, brett was telling me thier was metal in the oil. not that thier was no oil. my last oil change was less then 2k ago and havnt drove it hard since track day b4 my oil change. So Now i am like WTF mate. Its seeming like I am getting a run around? Kevin i call you tomorrow to figure out what the hell is really going on .
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:36 PM   #162
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There was metal in the oil when it was drained, which is evidence of bearing failure. When I said 'no oil', that doesnt mean literally bone dry, but did not register on the dip stick. If you call and can't get me (I have a busy day on the dyno), ask for mike, he's the tech actually working on the car, however I'm staying involved in all his findings. You're definitely not getting the run around in any way, there was metal in the remnants of oil that was drained and that's all Brett was aware of, you should have been put through to the tech when you called.
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:38 PM   #163
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No luck with those photo's Kevin?
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:55 PM   #164
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There was metal in the oil when it was drained, which is evidence of bearing failure. When I said 'no oil', that doesnt mean literally bone dry, but did not register on the dip stick. If you call and can't get me (I have a busy day on the dyno), ask for mike, he's the tech actually working on the car, however I'm staying involved in all his findings. You're definitely not getting the run around in any way, there was metal in the remnants of oil that was drained and that's all Brett was aware of, you should have been put through to the tech when you called.
Sounds like what we've been seeing here with the NON-FI cars.. basically unexplained low oil and bearing failure...
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Old 01-27-2012, 03:22 PM   #165
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Sounds like what we've been seeing here with the NON-FI cars.. basically unexplained low oil and bearing failure...
The LLT eats oil! I have a close friend that works at a chevy dealership and has worked on the v6 camaro since 2009 and in late 2010 he told me that most v6's eat about a quart every 1000 miles. It depends on the car and type of driving though, he said one customer's car ate a quart every 500 miles but my car stock only ate half a quart every 3000 miles mostly highway miles. It's too bad though that some guys haven't been able to catch the issue and have suffered engine failures...
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:25 PM   #166
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so is the only way to avoid this is to add a quart every 500-1000 miles depending on your motors consumption?
Anyone else think this is a bit ridiculous to be doing?
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:51 PM   #167
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Lucky here I guess. Most used was maybe a 1/2 qt after 5k. 27k on the clock.

Tired of checking it every other day though, wondering when the oil vampire will sneak in during the nite, lol
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:00 PM   #168
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^^^Mine doesn't eat oil either. I get my oil changes done at the dealer (dexos). For the people who's cars are eating oil... are you using a different type of oil?
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:40 PM   #169
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Dexos wont protect that motor no matter what GM claims (or chevy....same motor in the caddy & buick requires full syn). The design of the timing chains, etc. require the best protection you can get.

As for the oil usage, it is well documented as an issue. Cars driven hard during break-in do better as the rings seat properly than if babied.

The main causes of failures are from the hydraulic chain tensioners. If your even 1 qt low and during aggressive driving, or even a sudden stop the oil pump can suck air and cavitate and even if for just a few seconds the tensioners loose the hydraulic pressure allowing the chains to slip on the shallow gears and then piston-to-valve contact. That and any starvation will cause damage to begin with scoring to the bearings and journals.

I cant stress enough the importance to at least check your oil every 1000 miles and run a top grade synthetic.

I know these motors inside and out and am just sharing knowledge, not picking a fight. I know this is a generation that expects zero maintanance when buying a new car, and many are close to that....but checking oil is just part of owning ANY combustion engine. It is the life-blood.
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:54 PM   #170
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What he said ^^^^^^^ Just to add a little something, I sat down with my service manager and talked about the timing chain failures that were pretty well documented and fairly wide spread in some Caddy's, Traverse's etc.

Being a Chevy dealer he changed out a handful of Traverse chain failures under warranty. He said every one was caused by oil that was old and dirty.

He showed me a cut away of the LLT on his 'puter and pointed out the chain tensioner and guide where sludge would build up and cause the chain to stertch and **** up everthing. lol

I have the dealer change my oil on average every 4k with mobil1 and he said I don't have anything to worry about.

I asked about cost for changing chains on the Camaro. He never did one but looked up the labor and parts and said about $12-13 hundred.
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:39 PM   #171
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What he said ^^^^^^^ Just to add a little something, I sat down with my service manager and talked about the timing chain failures that were pretty well documented and fairly wide spread in some Caddy's, Traverse's etc.

Being a Chevy dealer he changed out a handful of Traverse chain failures under warranty. He said every one was caused by oil that was old and dirty.

He showed me a cut away of the LLT on his 'puter and pointed out the chain tensioner and guide where sludge would build up and cause the chain to stertch and **** up everthing. lol

I have the dealer change my oil on average every 4k with mobil1 and he said I don't have anything to worry about.

I asked about cost for changing chains on the Camaro. He never did one but looked up the labor and parts and said about $12-13 hundred.

These motors will last as long as any if cared for like you are. They are amazing with the power output, DI technology, etc. that it is worth putting a little more care into it to keep it in shape. It's only 3.6 lyer....almost 1/2 of a 6.2 and puts out the kinda of power with the fuel economy. Something I could not imagine 20 years ago.
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:58 PM   #172
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kevin will you give me updates through here i do not have acess to a phone bc i am on ship at the moment, PM's prefered
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Old 01-28-2012, 03:00 AM   #173
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Thanks for the great info guys. Ill continue checking my oil then since I drive it pretty hard.
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