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Old 12-13-2011, 06:28 AM   #251
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It's all a matter of price. You can have anything you want if you are willing to pay for it. Kooks for instance has a new cat that will not throw codes...but it has not been rolled out yet because they cost almost $300 more than a normal cat. Are you willing to pay $700 for cats on top of what headers cost?
Some of us would if it is reliable and doesn't require a trip to the installer for newer cats.
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:31 AM   #252
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This whole topic has become fairly confusing/contradicting...

We know the stock cats are more restrictive than high flow cats, hence why we can get more power NA or FI with the aftermarket high flow cats. KB claims they never see any issues with the stock cats failing in FI applications. This would counter the idea that aftermarket high flow cats fail due to trying to flow an extra 2.8 or whatever liters of air through them. Stock cats were not designed to flow that extra 2.8 liters, but supposedly they hold up fine. This leads me to think it is a quality issue, not a flow issue. Tuning will play a part in that too, improper tuning can kill the stock cats too.

I've been told by a very well known and reguarded tuner on this forum that even the stock cats will fail with time, but KB says they've never seen it on a application they tuned. Does this mean the tuner I spoke with doesn't know how to tune to make cats last, or is KB just trying to prevent sales from getting hurt?

I'd really like to go FI, but I have to keep my cats, and I am not willing to replace them every few thousand miles. If stock cats will last I'll stay with them as I also can't be too loud. One problem I have is finding someone to tune the car in a manner that the cats will last and I'll still get a ton of extra power. If tuning for the cats to last means not getting jack for additional power, then I just won't bother going FI.

I realize you got to pay to play, but there are plenty of FI factory cars (ZR1, ZL1, CTS-V...) that make good power and have cats that last. That's the type of setup I want, but I dont want to spend $60 to get there (ZL1) when I already have a perfectly good Camaro 2SS that I only paid $30k for new. Do I need to get some CTS-V cats welded in place of my factory ones to hold up to FI or will the stock ones be fine? I hope we can get a diffinitive answer to this soon since I'm sure there are more out there in the same position as me.
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Old 12-14-2011, 12:12 PM   #253
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This whole topic has become fairly confusing/contradicting...

We know the stock cats are more restrictive than high flow cats, hence why we can get more power NA or FI with the aftermarket high flow cats. KB claims they never see any issues with the stock cats failing in FI applications. This would counter the idea that aftermarket high flow cats fail due to trying to flow an extra 2.8 or whatever liters of air through them. Stock cats were not designed to flow that extra 2.8 liters, but supposedly they hold up fine. This leads me to think it is a quality issue, not a flow issue. Tuning will play a part in that too, improper tuning can kill the stock cats too.

I've been told by a very well known and reguarded tuner on this forum that even the stock cats will fail with time, but KB says they've never seen it on a application they tuned. Does this mean the tuner I spoke with doesn't know how to tune to make cats last, or is KB just trying to prevent sales from getting hurt?

I'd really like to go FI, but I have to keep my cats, and I am not willing to replace them every few thousand miles. If stock cats will last I'll stay with them as I also can't be too loud. One problem I have is finding someone to tune the car in a manner that the cats will last and I'll still get a ton of extra power. If tuning for the cats to last means not getting jack for additional power, then I just won't bother going FI.

I realize you got to pay to play, but there are plenty of FI factory cars (ZR1, ZL1, CTS-V...) that make good power and have cats that last. That's the type of setup I want, but I dont want to spend $60 to get there (ZL1) when I already have a perfectly good Camaro 2SS that I only paid $30k for new. Do I need to get some CTS-V cats welded in place of my factory ones to hold up to FI or will the stock ones be fine? I hope we can get a diffinitive answer to this soon since I'm sure there are more out there in the same position as me.
I'm with you; All sounds a bit hokey-pokey to me. Kind of like when something goes wrong on a project and it's obvious what went wrong but finger pointing starts in every direction.

What I find really interesting is not one of the manufacturers of these so called HF cats are involved with the thread to set the story straight.

That confirms to me something isn't quite right about all of this.

You're are exactly correct; If the stock CATs are sufficient, then:

1. Why are all the installers recommending HF cats?
2. If HF CATs, flow more than OEM CAT's why are they melting and blocking things up?

Totally illogical.
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Old 12-14-2011, 01:43 PM   #254
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mtbikerinme83,

I`m in the same boat as you. From what I`ve read, if nothing changes my mind in the next two weeks. mine are coming out . It`s just not worth the risk of damage.
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Old 12-14-2011, 02:11 PM   #255
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I'm thinking along the same lines as you guys. It's a catch 22 because I want high flows, but don't want to risk them blowing out all the time and the cost and trouble of replacing them often. Then, on the other hand, it makes you want to buy midpipes so you don't have to deal with crappy cats giving out, but it's illegal and the possible fine involved is unbelievable. If it's that big of a deal I may jsut stick with OEM IF they can last a lot longer than high flows, and just deal with the loss in power associated with doing so.
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Old 12-14-2011, 02:30 PM   #256
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Well... Are the Hi-Flow Cats ok with 500whp ?? Also I never heard of any enforcement folks taking off your Cats and looking at them ... that will leave the door open to just gut them then ... Ted says you'll need a Re-tune if you do? Don't know what to do anymore ...
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Old 12-14-2011, 07:41 PM   #257
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swapping the cats back in is not that big a deal for inspection day...limp it to the station and back and take em back off...done for the next 12 months. I've already found a lazy shop that practically hands you the inspection sticker as you walk in, and I have a friend with a lift...but could easily do it myself on jack stands.
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Old 12-14-2011, 09:38 PM   #258
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swapping the cats back in is not that big a deal for inspection day...limp it to the station and back and take em back off...done for the next 12 months. I've already found a lazy shop that practically hands you the inspection sticker as you walk in, and I have a friend with a lift...but could easily do it myself on jack stands.
This seems like the best solution for long tube header owners that have inspections. To those of you that are leaving the stock manifolds on I would suggest either run the stock cats or no cats at all and then put them in at inspection time. If your running the stock manifolds then its unlikely you are going to be pushing alot of power or boost anyway and the stock cats should run fine as they are built alot better than the aftermarket ones that come with our headers.
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:15 PM   #259
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:00 PM   #260
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Well... Are the Hi-Flow Cats ok with 500whp ?? Also I never heard of any enforcement folks taking off your Cats and looking at them ... that will leave the door open to just gut them then ... Ted says you'll need a Re-tune if you do? Don't know what to do anymore ...
I am running Stainless Works headers and High Flow cats with my KB at 520rwhp for 6 months and 10-15k miles on them. I took them out the other day to do some exhaust work and low and behold they look perfectly fine. My car has seen trackdays at least 2 a month and a 100 mile commute daily. If they are gonna fail I will just replace them. SW says they are designed for FI engines so lets see how it goes...
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:11 PM   #261
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I am running Stainless Works headers and High Flow cats with my KB at 520rwhp for 6 months and 10-15k miles on them. I took them out the other day to do some exhaust work and low and behold they look perfectly fine. My car has seen trackdays at least 2 a month and a 100 mile commute daily. If they are gonna fail I will just replace them. SW says they are designed for FI engines so lets see how it goes...
Most people with FI are doing quite a bit more than 500rwhp. so you may be good now, but as your power increases the CAT's will fail.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:29 PM   #262
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Hey guys, I work for Performance Industries, we make the cats that ARH, Bassanni and Magnaflow use. I am the lead welder/fabricator. I was pointed to this thread by some camaro owners on LS1tech. I may be able to lend a hand here.

The only other manufacturer of high flow cats is Random Technologies that we are aware of, and they supply most of the other exhaust companies that we dont....yet.

Does anybody that has ARH ever had a problem with their cats? We've personally never heard anything from any of our clients so far about a cat failing, so if they have please tell me, I would love to hear what happened and if possible see pics or even have the failed cats sent back to us so we can improve our product.

Most pictures I see right now of failed cats are 300 CPI cores with no washcoating on them at all and it looks as if the nickel alloy brazing agent didnt hold up to the heat of the exhaust or maybe they werent even brazed to begin with from the manufacturer.

If anybody has any question or concerns, please let me know, I would love to help out here.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:41 PM   #263
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Hey guys, I work for Performance Industries, we make the cats that ARH, Bassanni and Magnaflow use. I am the lead welder/fabricator. I was pointed to this thread by some camaro owners on LS1tech. I may be able to lend a hand here.

The only other manufacturer of high flow cats is Random Technologies that we are aware of, and they supply most of the other exhaust companies that we dont....yet.

Does anybody that has ARH ever had a problem with their cats? We've personally never heard anything from any of our clients so far about a cat failing, so if they have please tell me, I would love to hear what happened and if possible see pics or even have the failed cats sent back to us so we can improve our product.

Most pictures I see right now of failed cats are 300 CPI cores with no washcoating on them at all and it looks as if the nickel alloy brazing agent didnt hold up to the heat of the exhaust or maybe they werent even brazed to begin with from the manufacturer.

If anybody has any question or concerns, please let me know, I would love to help out here.
Welcome to C5.

I had the ARH Cats on my car that failed. While I never saw them they were rattling pretty bad. Jannetty racing removed them while doing other work and stated they totally melted and collapsed. I wish I still had them to show but I'd have to defer to Ted.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:49 PM   #264
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Welcome to C5.

I had the ARH Cats on my car that failed. While I never saw them they were rattling pretty bad. Jannetty racing removed them while doing other work and stated they totally melted and collapsed. I wish I still had them to show but I'd have to defer to Ted.
Sorry to hear about that man. One problem we have is that most of the time our customers like ARH or what have you wont tell us when theyve had a failed cat or anything of that nature. We are in the process of upgrading alot of things and are designing newer cores to hold up to excessive heat. If you could somehow get pictures or something, that would be awesome. Do you have cats on your car now? I see you're whippled too, did this happen pre or post whipple?
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:52 PM   #265
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Sorry to hear about that man. One problem we have is that most of the time our customers like ARH or what have you wont tell us when theyve had a failed cat or anything of that nature. We are in the process of upgrading alot of things and are designing newer cores to hold up to excessive heat. If you could somehow get pictures or something, that would be awesome.
Cool can't wait to see what you come up with.

I'm seeing Ted soon I'll check with him. Thanks for the help
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:57 PM   #266
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Cool can't wait to see what you come up with.

I'm seeing Ted soon I'll check with him. Thanks for the help
No problem man, glad to help. We are about to get a whippled camaro from a friend of the companies owner so we can do some tests with it and develop the best product we can for you guys.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:04 PM   #267
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No problem man, glad to help. We are about to get a whippled camaro from a friend of the companies owner so we can do some tests with it and develop the best product we can for you guys.
Nice. Ill keep an eye out. Glad to see someone step up to the plate and stand behind their product.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:28 PM   #268
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Nice. Ill keep an eye out. Glad to see someone step up to the plate and stand behind their product.
I'm actually on the phone with the owner right now lol, did the cats blow pre or post whipple?
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:43 PM   #269
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I have kooks cats, raise heck in my car, bought the catless connection pipes and put them on my shelf, just in case... No wait time if there is an issue... plus I plan on building another exhaust setup down the road starting there anyway...
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:48 PM   #270
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I have kooks cats, raise heck in my car, bought the catless connection pipes and put them on my shelf, just in case... No wait time if there is an issue... plus I plan on building another exhaust setup down the road starting there anyway...

If you'd like some new cats for your current setup or your future setup than I can definately hook you up man, just let me know. I hear there are alot of problems with kooks cats as well as SLP and stainless works.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:59 PM   #271
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I'm actually on the phone with the owner right now lol, did the cats blow pre or post whipple?
After Whipple. September as a matter of fact. Blower installed February.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:03 PM   #272
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After Whipple. September as a matter of fact. Blower installed February.
OK cool thanks, sorry for all the questions. How long had you had your headers on before the whipple?
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:05 PM   #273
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OK cool thanks, sorry for all the questions. How long had you had your headers on before the whipple?
Probably about a year.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:10 PM   #274
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Probably about a year.
Awesome, I'll look into the situation as soon as I get to the shop tomorrow.
Would you be willing to put some prototype cats on your car for a study? Were only allowed to have this guys camaro for 2 days and we wont be able to test enough on it to get the best results.

We have a mini jet engine made from a semi turbo that were going to use to test heat durability on a new design. If it can hold up to that heat and that amount of thrust, it should be able to handle a whipple lol.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:14 PM   #275
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Awesome, I'll look into the situation as soon as I get to the shop tomorrow.
Would you be willing to put some prototype cats on your car for a study? Were only allowed to have this guys camaro for 2 days and we wont be able to test enough on it to get the best results.

We have a mini jet engine made from a semi turbo that were going to use to test heat durability on a new design. If it can hold up to that heat and that amount of thrust, it should be able to handle a whipple lol.
Sure I'd love too.
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