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Old 11-21-2011, 02:47 PM   #51
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I guess here in Germany we're screwed with that sort of issue...
Gutting the cats is tax fraud over here

If all of that is true I'm soooo looking for some of the aftermarket guys out there to step up with a solution!

Better check mine soon...
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:52 PM   #52
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So if my goals next week are 520 to 540 at the wheels i should not worry about my cats or high flow cats?
It is Not about HP it is about cubic Inches per my explanation above.

Exhaust gas temps are the same at 100 hp or 1000 hp when tuned correctly.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:55 PM   #53
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BTW the picture I posted up was 570whp with high flow cats. Listen to jannety.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:01 PM   #54
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A while back my friend(who is a mechanic) thought he heard an exhaust leak after I had my car modded to 445RWHP and after installing SW headers and Cats. We put the car on the rack with it running and did a thorough check of the joints. We found no leaks, but we did notice that one of the Cats had turned a cherry red color. The other Cat just looked normal. We could not find the temperature device. So, we checked it the next day and both Cats stayed the same color. Found the device and the temperature reading on day 2 read between 530 -550F. We pulled the Cats off and there was no melting or damage. Really strange.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:16 PM   #55
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OK, I was wondering about this glad someone brought it up. I know several mustang guys who have had their high flow cats go out on blown cars. So it can happen to us as well I see.

Next project gut the cats.. So Ted or anybody that has done this, have you seen a small boost drop going from high flow cats to gutted cats in the mid to high rpm range? If so how much at peak?
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Old 11-22-2011, 05:57 AM   #56
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I would really love to find cats that can handle FI. Sure, we can gut them and look legal, or go with straight pipe and swap in cats for inspection. But I hate the smell of these cars without cats. It is also not very environment-friendly. I think that I'll call American Racing to see what they say.
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:54 AM   #57
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Exclamation WARNING...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCAT View Post
So, all these supercharged cars like the ZL1 and GT500 both putting out great power, should there be many problems with te stock cars for future customers? I would assume so, because there running stock cats and not even high flows.
Exactly what I was thinking when I started reading this thread. Wonder what would happen if it is a major issue that has just started to show its fugly head.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:06 AM   #58
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Question Question...

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Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Most Cat Converters are Sized and designed around the Cubic inches of the Engine.

In this case 6.2 Liters, they will live a Happy and Productive Life.

Add a Supercharger with Say 7-8 PSI they 6.2 Liter Engine just became 9.3 Liters which far exceeds the Cat Design which causes Overheating and Failure.

The Cats need to be Double they're current Size to handle the Additional cubic inches.

Ted.
I read your reply and wanted to know being in the performance business do you know of such types of cats for a larger engine to work with the setup for the 2010-12 Camaro exhaust? I have not looked anywhere yet but have just read through this thread and started to wonder about it.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:11 AM   #59
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Arrow WoW...

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Lol, thanks man. That sounds easy enough.
Thats a relief...I thought for a second he was going to compare it to a button fly or velcro!
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:27 AM   #60
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HF Cats

After reading this I need to do something so what are my options? Besides gutting the cats, if i put the oem cats and exhaust back on will I be okay. I know it will cost me HP but how much?
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:30 AM   #61
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I don't really really think there are any options besides going with mid pipes without cats, but that's for off-road and illegal. If you were to put the stock cats on, I would assume they may blow out even quicker, but don't know.

Anyone know if the stock cats last less time than the high flows in terms of longevity on boosted vehicles, or are the stock cats more robust?
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:46 AM   #62
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This is a common problem seen with hp levels starting about 600. So if your there, you might as well gut the cats and avoid any issues...
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:35 PM   #63
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OK, after reading this thread I was, to put it lightly, officially freaked. For my wife's M6 Eforce Camaro, with JRE fuel upgrade and injectors, stock cats, hand ported and ceramic coated exhaust manifolds (by me), Thunder Racing V3 cam, Vmax ported TB, and tune, we have coaxed 585 RWHP. I dont consider myself an expert on internal combustion engines by any means but I do read alot and implement what I read in an engineering fashion. As the "gearhead of the office" this completely caught me off guard. I have encouraged a fellow co-worker down the 2010 Camaro FI road along with myself, have advised G8 owners on viable performance options and am currently assisting a grad student in his studies and understanding of internal combustion engines with regards to cam timing, head flow, CR, etc.
I think that Ted said it best with FI = more "effective" cubic inches than stock.
Bottom line is that I ordered the JBA non-catted straight pipe to replace the cats that are currently installed.
I have noticed that the car "just doesn't seem to have to power that it used to have". Although we all suffer from this mallady, the car does truly seem to have lost power and has only been driven 2k miles since the SC/cam install. Once the pipes arrive this week (hopefully), I will post pics of what I'm removing in order to circumvent a potentially catastrophic outcome.
Thanks.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:50 PM   #64
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I've had my Magnaflow High Flow Cats on along with my Maggie for the past 20,000 miles. I had my exhaust guy check my cats for burnout per Ten Jannetty's advice and all was clear. No damage at the time. I'll continue to check them annually to be safe. I'm about 550rwhp. Keeping my fingers crossed. We'll see. No opinion here.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:32 AM   #65
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I called ARH to ask them about this, since they make high flow cats. I talked with Mike, and he said that it was really up to the tune. Too rich, and they will burn up. However, it seems to me that Ted is right also. It is probably a combination of the two. If you have more volume, you'll have more heat. If you have more excess fuel, you'll have more heat.

I would like a safe catted solution. I don't see that happening real soon since nobody is working on a solution.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:53 AM   #66
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Sorry to butt in. Are the stock cats on the ZL-1 the same cats on the SS? If they are than that is a safe bet they are of a much better quality than these Hi-Flow cats that are burning up. Correct me if I am wrong.
So, 5-9 PSI is safe, more you need mid-pipes?
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:58 AM   #67
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I talked to Kooks about this. They said their cats will hold up to supercharged applications. Said they've installed superchargers on camaor's with their exhaust. Has anyone had any problems with the Kooks high flow cats?
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Old 11-23-2011, 08:39 AM   #68
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I talked to Kooks about this. They said their cats will hold up to supercharged applications. Said they've installed superchargers on camaor's with their exhaust. Has anyone had any problems with the Kooks high flow cats?
From what I have seen most issues have been with Kooks. That is what I have on mine and I will be taking them off, I do not want to take any chances, I talked to the guy yesterday that had tuned my car, and he recommended removing them and said it would not affect my tune, just mak the car a little louder.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:15 AM   #69
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I talked to Kooks about this. They said their cats will hold up to supercharged applications. Said they've installed superchargers on camaor's with their exhaust. Has anyone had any problems with the Kooks high flow cats?
We have seen several sets of Kooks Cats Fail with superchargers.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:24 AM   #70
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Quote:
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We have seen several sets of Kooks Cats Fail with superchargers.
Bummer... I might not have spent the extra cash knowing this "might" happen even though I'm not going for much more HP than I have now. :( Seems like an asterisk is needed on these HF cats when FI is involved.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:31 AM   #71
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Quote:
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From what I have seen most issues have been with Kooks. That is what I have on mine and I will be taking them off, I do not want to take any chances, I talked to the guy yesterday that had tuned my car, and he recommended removing them and said it would not affect my tune, just mak the car a little louder.
I agree seems to be the consensus between all the performance shops. I know folks that have Camaro SS's and their's either melted too or where gut'd and they had all the best name brands.
Problem, here is it's pointless to purchase them if you plan on increasing HP to some degree and / or use a SC, however, your damned if you do and if you don't. It's illegal most places not to have them, so you have to waste money to purchase them and have them gut'd to maintain the illusion that the vehicle is legal.
In my mind the question is; Why don't the manufactures provide a product that will hold up to higher cubes as they already know most peeps in the mod arena are usually building high performance engines on vehicles that are daily drivers as well as week-end warriors at the track? Or is this just a limitation of current day technology?
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:42 AM   #72
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Ted advised me I'd likely burn out my cats after he so graciously increased my car's performance to its current levels. In retrospect...I should have asked about before the install but don't know if there is any legal restrictions to shops installing off-road pipes on street cars. I plan on doing it as soon as I get my Christmas presents. Oh how I wish a lift would fit in my garage!!! I may have to sale my place and find a bigger garage...
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:19 AM   #73
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So extra fuel helps to burn up the cats quicker? How do the COT spark and fuel tables help to combat this? Better yet, can the COT spark and fuel tables help with this?
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:21 AM   #74
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a shop cant legally even install long tube headers with cats, the cats are not in the original location and also its illegal to remove a good catalytic converter, and can face fines of $10,000,, i guess all the shops and people have been lucky so far that the govt isnt really cracking down yet.


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In 1986, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency issued new guidelines for the construction, efficiency and installation of aftermarket catalytic converters. All CleanAir converters listed in this catalog have been designed, tested and manufactured to meet this policy.

In addition, CleanAir converter listed in this catalog is appropriate for use under the current requirements of the California Air Resources Board (C.A.R.B.).
E.P.A. guidelines state that replacement converters may be installed only in the following situations:

1. The vehicle is missing a converter
2. A state or local inspection program has determined that the existing converter needs replacement
3. Vehicles manufactured prior to 1996 must have more than 50,000 miles, and a legitimate need for replacement must be established and documented
4. In cases of OBD Il-equipped vehicles (1996 and later), the O.E. manufacturer's 8-year/80,000-mile warranty must have expired and a legitimate need for replacement must be established and documented.
Please note that Federal law prohibits removal or replacement of a properly functioning O.E. converter.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:29 AM   #75
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