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Old 11-23-2011, 01:21 PM   #1
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ZL1 Pulley & Tune Projected HP/TQ?

Just thinking out loud.

Pulley, tune, long tubes how much are they leaving on the table for us to play with on the ZL1?

How much more will be able to get out of the LSA by upping the boost and getting the engine to breathe better?
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:27 PM   #2
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I'm guessing by looking at the lsa in the CTS-V that with pulleys, tune, exhaust you should be able to make 550+ to the wheels. Add a cam and larger injectors to that and you will easily be 600+
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:57 PM   #3
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Best I can tell you are only hp limited by $$$ and how much risk you are willing to take before detonation occurs to the destruction of engine internals.

Trust me I am no export on the matter but my investigatons would tend to show that once you begin pushing 700 RWHP, some serious consideration should be given to race fuel which is consistent in octane and contaminant free. Additonally, race fuel allows the tuner flexibility to tweak some fine points providing additional protection against detonation.

Chew up the meat and spit out the bones.
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:26 PM   #4
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I think you can go up about 3psi without changing much. headers and intake are not hard.

So I mean pumping the car up to 625-650bhp should not be hard or too expensive and could probbbaly be done with exhaust intake or pulley and tune.

I read some posts on CTS-v forums adding longtubes and pulley sometimes people did not end up with the same boost numbers as without.
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Old 11-24-2011, 09:10 AM   #5
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I think you can go up about 3psi without changing much. headers and intake are not hard.

So I mean pumping the car up to 625-650bhp should not be hard or too expensive and could probbbaly be done with exhaust intake or pulley and tune.

I read some posts on CTS-v forums adding longtubes and pulley sometimes people did not end up with the same boost numbers as without.
When you open up the exhaust, as in adding headers or free flow exhaust, you loose boost. That's why people with CTS-Vs and ZR1s are loosing power. You have to compensate by changing out the pulleys. What I typically see when I modify ZR1s or any other supercharged build I do, I see at the most a 2lb loss in boost by adding headers and exhaust. If this is done to the ZL1 that will put the car at 8lbs of boost. I run my ZR1 at 16lbs. Anything over that, you'll have to run race gas. On my Escalade and Denali GMC truck I run 10lbs of boost and use the LS9 camshaft. My plan for my ZL1 is to mimic what I did for my ZR1, which is CNC'd heads, cam, upper and lower pulley, headers, upgraded after cooler and heat exchanger, upgraded supercharger coolant pump, one stage colder spark plugs and a few other tricks. I'll also add a 10-rib belt conversion to the ZL1 as well to prevent any belt slippage. I'll have all this done in about two weeks after receiving the car, as soon as we get our baseline RWHP number. I'll put the entire build on Camaro5.
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:42 PM   #6
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When you open up the exhaust, as in adding headers or free flow exhaust, you loose boost. That's why people with CTS-Vs and ZR1s are loosing power. You have to compensate by changing out the pulleys. What I typically see when I modify ZR1s or any other supercharged build I do, I see at the most a 2lb loss in boost by adding headers and exhaust. If this is done to the ZL1 that will put the car at 8lbs of boost. I run my ZR1 at 16lbs. Anything over that, you'll have to run race gas. On my Escalade and Denali GMC truck I run 10lbs of boost and use the LS9 camshaft. My plan for my ZL1 is to mimic what I did for my ZR1, which is CNC'd heads, cam, upper and lower pulley, headers, upgraded after cooler and heat exchanger, upgraded supercharger coolant pump, one stage colder spark plugs and a few other tricks. I'll also add a 10-rib belt conversion to the ZL1 as well to prevent any belt slippage. I'll have all this done in about two weeks after receiving the car, as soon as we get our baseline RWHP number. I'll put the entire build on Camaro5.
yeah the post I read was a two very similar cars and the hp #'s were pretty similar but the car with longtubes had less 2lb's of boost they had the same pulley kit as the car without longtubes. they bough the pulley kit then threw the headers on and dyno'd the car I don't think they relized there would be a boost loss.

As long as you deal with a place that understands you whole mod list I am sure this is a non issue.

I don't think I will go near as far as you are going. I would like to get the strait line speed back to the Z06 I am selling to buy this car though. My wife will get angry at me if my penis shrinks in size cause my new car is slower than my old car.
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Old 11-25-2011, 05:10 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ZL WON View Post
When you open up the exhaust, as in adding headers or free flow exhaust, you loose boost. That's why people with CTS-Vs and ZR1s are loosing power. You have to compensate by changing out the pulleys. What I typically see when I modify ZR1s or any other supercharged build I do, I see at the most a 2lb loss in boost by adding headers and exhaust. If this is done to the ZL1 that will put the car at 8lbs of boost. I run my ZR1 at 16lbs. Anything over that, you'll have to run race gas. On my Escalade and Denali GMC truck I run 10lbs of boost and use the LS9 camshaft. My plan for my ZL1 is to mimic what I did for my ZR1, which is CNC'd heads, cam, upper and lower pulley, headers, upgraded after cooler and heat exchanger, upgraded supercharger coolant pump, one stage colder spark plugs and a few other tricks. I'll also add a 10-rib belt conversion to the ZL1 as well to prevent any belt slippage. I'll have all this done in about two weeks after receiving the car, as soon as we get our baseline RWHP number. I'll put the entire build on Camaro5.
Very much looking forward to following your progress
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Old 11-25-2011, 06:10 PM   #8
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My wife will get angry at me if my penis shrinks
Just do circles
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Old 11-25-2011, 06:15 PM   #9
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Just do circles


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Old 11-25-2011, 07:42 PM   #10
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I'm guessing by looking at the lsa in the CTS-V that with pulleys, tune, exhaust you should be able to make 550+ to the wheels. Add a cam and larger injectors to that and you will easily be 600+
Your right in line..

We are starting a build for GM HIGHTECH on monday that is our stage 2 setup.LS9 Cam,Thermostat,Ported Throttlebody,Intake,Ported Throttlebody,.Ported Snout,2.55 upper pulley,63lb injectors.

Very Basic build for us and will make 590 rwhp or 110 over stock to the tires.

Look for the article about the time the ZL1 hits the market.

We also have 1 we are finishing tommorow that will make 650-670 to the tires that has more boost,Larger Cam,Lower compression,Headers.

I will post the build under forced induction on this one.
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Old 11-25-2011, 10:20 PM   #11
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so, what are we looking at if we just do the pulley/tune?
Or is this something y'all would not recommend?
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Old 11-26-2011, 05:48 AM   #12
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so, what are we looking at if we just do the pulley/tune?
Or is this something y'all would not recommend?
2.55 PULLEY and tune will net you 40-45 rwhp on ctsv.
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Old 11-26-2011, 10:14 AM   #13
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2.55 PULLEY and tune will net you 40-45 rwhp on ctsv.
Is belt slip an issue with ctsv and this pulley?
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Old 11-26-2011, 10:18 AM   #14
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How much will the stock bottom end take safely before it becomes a problem?
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Old 11-26-2011, 10:35 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by hognutz View Post
I think you can go up about 3psi without changing much. headers and intake are not hard.

So I mean pumping the car up to 625-650bhp should not be hard or too expensive and could probbbaly be done with exhaust intake or pulley and tune.

I read some posts on CTS-v forums adding longtubes and pulley sometimes people did not end up with the same boost numbers as without.
^^^^This is a good thing and a sign that the modifications worked and improved airflow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZL WON View Post
When you open up the exhaust, as in adding headers or free flow exhaust, you loose boost. That's why people with CTS-Vs and ZR1s are loosing power. You have to compensate by changing out the pulleys. What I typically see when I modify ZR1s or any other supercharged build I do, I see at the most a 2lb loss in boost by adding headers and exhaust. If this is done to the ZL1 that will put the car at 8lbs of boost. I run my ZR1 at 16lbs. Anything over that, you'll have to run race gas. On my Escalade and Denali GMC truck I run 10lbs of boost and use the LS9 camshaft. My plan for my ZL1 is to mimic what I did for my ZR1, which is CNC'd heads, cam, upper and lower pulley, headers, upgraded after cooler and heat exchanger, upgraded supercharger coolant pump, one stage colder spark plugs and a few other tricks. I'll also add a 10-rib belt conversion to the ZL1 as well to prevent any belt slippage. I'll have all this done in about two weeks after receiving the car, as soon as we get our baseline RWHP number. I'll put the entire build on Camaro5.
^^^^Why would they be losing power with lower PSI numbers on the Same Pulley? This makes no sense.

Boost is not a measure of Horsepower. Freeing up airflow in and out of the engine will reduce the amount of pressure (Boost PSI) but increase the amount of CFM and cause an INCREASE in HP and Torque. Loosing PSI is not a bad thing when you are freeing up intake and especially exhaust flow.

For example, My experience:
2 identical cars:
One has everything stock and 12 PSI making 215whp.
The other has exhaust and intake modifications and tuning for them, but still on the same stock pulley making only 10 PSI and 230whp.
The lower PSI car has MORE POWER than the Higher PSI.
Now Compensate by adding a Smaller Pulley and returning the PSI to 12 results in 245whp.

Boost PSI is a measure of restriction only, the true measure you want is CFM in and out of the engine. An engine is an air pump and increased efficiency in and out results in lower restriction and pressure, but more performance.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:06 AM   #16
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Why would they be losing power with lower PSI numbers on the Same Pulley? This makes no sense.

Boost is not a measure of Horsepower. Freeing up airflow in and out of the engine will reduce the amount of pressure (Boost PSI) but increase the amount of CFM and cause an INCREASE in HP and Torque. Loosing PSI is not a bad thing when you are freeing up intake and especially exhaust flow.

For example, My experience:
2 identical cars:
One has everything stock and 12 PSI making 215whp.
The other has exhaust and intake modifications and tuning for them, but still on the same stock pulley making only 10 PSI and 230whp.
The lower PSI car has MORE POWER than the Higher PSI.
Now Compensate by adding a Smaller Pulley and returning the PSI to 12 results in 245whp.

Boost PSI is a measure of restriction only, the true measure you want is CFM in and out of the engine. An engine is an air pump and increased efficiency in and out results in lower restriction and pressure, but more performance.
I deal with this on a daily basis. I modify a lot of ZR1s and CTS-Vs. Experience just shows this just happens. This is why a lot of ZR1 guys were complaining when they threw on a set of headers and retuned it, they were making less HP than factory. The solution is to put on a smaller pulley to bring the PSI up to compensate for the loss of 2lbs. The car responded very well to this with better than factory numbers. I see the same for the CTS-Vs and any other supercharged cars I build.

And what car are you talking about that makes 12lbs of boost and only makes 215WHP? Is that a Briggs and Stratton riding mower?
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Old 11-26-2011, 12:19 PM   #17
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And what car are you talking about that makes 12lbs of boost and only makes 215WHP? Is that a Briggs and Stratton riding mower?
Gotta get me one of those!
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:28 PM   #18
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^^^^This is a good thing and a sign that the modifications worked and improved airflow.



^^^^Why would they be losing power with lower PSI numbers on the Same Pulley? This makes no sense.

Boost is not a measure of Horsepower. Freeing up airflow in and out of the engine will reduce the amount of pressure (Boost PSI) but increase the amount of CFM and cause an INCREASE in HP and Torque. Loosing PSI is not a bad thing when you are freeing up intake and especially exhaust flow.

For example, My experience:
2 identical cars:
One has everything stock and 12 PSI making 215whp.
The other has exhaust and intake modifications and tuning for them, but still on the same stock pulley making only 10 PSI and 230whp.
The lower PSI car has MORE POWER than the Higher PSI.
Now Compensate by adding a Smaller Pulley and returning the PSI to 12 results in 245whp.

Boost PSI is a measure of restriction only, the true measure you want is CFM in and out of the engine. An engine is an air pump and increased efficiency in and out results in lower restriction and pressure, but more performance.
This is how it should work. I dont know whats going on with these cars losing power. Laws of physics says it shouldnt be happening.
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Old 11-26-2011, 02:01 PM   #19
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This is how it should work. I dont know whats going on with these cars losing power. Laws of physics says it shouldnt be happening.
There's more to the physics than flow in/out... backpressure is an integral part of the equation too...
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Old 11-26-2011, 03:20 PM   #20
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I made a 100rwhp increase in my V with a 9.5 lower, stock manifolds but with 3 inch piping from the cats back, and a CAI.

I got friends making 200rwhp over stock with no problems. Its all in the tune to keep it living
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:23 PM   #21
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How much will the stock bottom end take safely before it becomes a problem?
Depends on the fuel.So far no LSA failures from our shop,and we push the envelope.
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:25 PM   #22
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Is belt slip an issue with ctsv and this pulley?
Not an issue with correct length belt.
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:36 PM   #23
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For Comparison sake- Before and after

So we finished another Stage 3 package on a 2011 CTSV Wagon Auto and the results are strong.

The car was highest stock we have ever seen,But the customer told us he runs Torco a bit often...Base dyno showed very good timing with 0 knock....Normally see a few degrees on stock cars and 93 octane causing lower dyno numbers.

So here is the results-



PM for price of this upgrade.ZL1 Should be within a few hundred of the CTSV.
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:58 AM   #24
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It seems to me adding free-flowing exhaust should lower boost for the same reasons as another person has already pointed out. As far as why ZR1s are losing power - that could be because I just recently read those stainless manifolds can actually make more power than some LTs (I read that in an artcile in GMHTP I think - that was a quote from SAM, or another shop I believe).

Andy - do you have some 'V info' on your site, or will you be adding ZL1 parts to your catalogue? Thanks
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:15 AM   #25
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It seems to me adding free-flowing exhaust should lower boost for the same reasons as another person has already pointed out. As far as why ZR1s are losing power - that could be because I just recently read those stainless manifolds can actually make more power than some LTs (I read that in an artcile in GMHTP I think - that was a quote from SAM, or another shop I believe).

Andy - do you have some 'V info' on your site, or will you be adding ZL1 parts to your catalogue? Thanks
New website coming soon!!!
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