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Old 12-21-2011, 05:03 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by GoldenBear View Post
I think that people who are concerned about the tire practicality of a ZL1 are unlikely to purchase a ZL1 in the first place.
If the commentary on the site is any indicator, then I doubt many will see much, if any real track time and will be garage queens and "fair weather" only cars... Never seeing clouds, rain, etc. Sure, they'll drive aggressively here and there -- but, I think many of them won't see acceleration or demand greater than an SS or an LT/LS and this whole tire temp range thing will only truly bother a small few that actually intend to demand what this car can deliver. I know people with Lambos that spend less time in a garage than 5th gen Camaros.
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Old 12-21-2011, 06:12 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by HumanWiki View Post
I know people with Lambos that spend less time in a garage than 5th gen Camaros.
Now that's funny!
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:24 PM   #54
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If the commentary on the site is any indicator, then I doubt many will see much, if any real track time and will be garage queens and "fair weather" only cars... Never seeing clouds, rain, etc. Sure, they'll drive aggressively here and there -- but, I think many of them won't see acceleration or demand greater than an SS or an LT/LS and this whole tire temp range thing will only truly bother a small few that actually intend to demand what this car can deliver. I know people with Lambos that spend less time in a garage than 5th gen Camaros.
Not to be an A-Hole, but what are the odds of seeing acceleration or demand greater than an SS or and LT / LS in any weather other than "fair" or better?

I plan on enjoying every minute of my ZL1 driving experience. I don't know about you but I don't thoroughly enjoy driving in the rain or snow regardless of the vehicle. IMO there is nothing wrong with driving this car only in good weather if you have the choice. That is when you have the best opportunity to use it to its full potential. I dont ever recall anyones best lap time or mile being set in anything other than dry conditions.

Thats not to say if it starts raining Im going to pull over and hide under an overpass but why drive in the rain if I can avoid it?
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:44 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by IOMZL1 View Post
Not to be an A-Hole, but what are the odds of seeing acceleration or demand greater than an SS or and LT / LS in any weather other than "fair" or better?

I plan on enjoying every minute of my ZL1 driving experience. I don't know about you but I don't thoroughly enjoy driving in the rain or snow regardless of the vehicle. IMO there is nothing wrong with driving this car only in good weather if you have the choice. That is when you have the best opportunity to use it to its full potential. I don’t ever recall anyone’s best lap time or mile being set in anything other than dry conditions.

That’s not to say if it starts raining I’m going to pull over and hide under an overpass but why drive in the rain if I can avoid it?
I'm just having some fun....

I hate having these damn summer tires when it's winter and when it's summer I don't think they're "summer enough"..

I grew up lower middle class and a lot of my friends were upper lower class (financially speaking only)... so, when they all started messing around with cars, they were used, 5 different colors and usually a fox body 'stang. There was no "not driving it in the rain/on the beach/ through the mud" concept with us.. It didn't snow where I was at, but it did hail -- that was about the only thing they'd get irritated with... We all just drove the piss out of our cars and knew that they weren't going to have good paint, dingless body or fully matching pieces... But, man, was it ever a fun time.. No worrying about the door dings, where to park, that spot of mud on the fender, those inches of rubber in the fender areas, etc. We did all our work ourselves in the backyard.. etc... etc..

It's just all stuck with me since then.. I was lucky and my stuff was newer, but not brand new... So, to fit in, I just did like they did and drove mine just as hard --- we didn't abuse the cars like slamming doors, sitting on roofs, etc... but, they certainly weren't pampered.

Man, those were the days.. Working on cars only took some wrenches, screw drivers and some ball peen motivators... instead of multiple Ph Ds in computer science and several electrical engineering degrees.

To me.. seeing a car like this sitting in a garage most its life not being enjoyed is like that one person living in a 700 sq/ft apartment with a St. Bernard..
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:50 PM   #56
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You guys have driven the Pirelli's in cold weather haven't you? They are a summer tire also and I can't see them being any worse then those found on the ZL1. Just keep an eye on the tire pressure when you're driving. I keep my DIC set to speedo and can push the button and check my tire pressure.

Leaving work Saturday morning it was 29* and my P Zero's were as slick as roller skates when I was taking a cloverleaf onramp to the freeway. Nothing worse than turning your steering wheel and having your car continue in a straight line. It felt like it was taking forever before it would grab and then I had to pull my shorts out of a puckered up poop chute.
Drove all last winter on them--- Snow, sleet, ice, etc...

They most certainly do turn in to greased up hockey pucks... Science keeps looking for frictionless materials... Well, this is pretty damn close.

I'd think the ZL1's tire will have more issues with the temps, snow, ice, etc. than our PZeros due to them being even more aggressive than ours... but, that's just my guess... We'll just have to see how they do for the ones that will attempt to run it that way.

I won't do it again.. Not with these mods... It was barely manageable on the stock power with an LS3...

I'm not getting a ZL1, but I know a few here in the Chicago area that plan on it and they already have tire storage solutions ready to go and none of them intend to drive it in the winter I believe.
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:22 AM   #57
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Nothing against GM's tire choice. I think GM should offer at a minimum a high performance all season as standard and the Goodyears as an option. The majority will not track/use the tires/car to its full potential. No I didn't take a poll this is just my observation after living in SoCal and living next to Willow Springs for years. Yeah, yeah you can replace the tires but why have tires sitting that may not get used or dry rot that you payed for. On the other hand you can wait till the stockers ware out. I had summer tires perform better than all seasons in the rain
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:33 AM   #58
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For the edification of those touting "all-season" use of Summer-only tires, there ARE jurisdictions in North America where the use of winter tires is MANDATORY.

For folks in those regions, it's CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD.

For folks, elsewhere, this may be a "new" concept...but it isn't NEW...

You've ALL been warned...heed, or bear the results...
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:09 PM   #59
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I have driven my 2011 GT500 with these tires on it without the cracking shown. However, I did not drive the car hard. Just back and forth to work in 30 degree weather.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:13 PM   #60
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There is no such thing as a High Performance All Season tire. They can market this concept until the cows come home. It doesn't matter. They are AVERAGE tires across a wide range of temperatures.

The ZL1 is currently the ultimate performing 5th Gen Camaro and Chevy should sell it with only the best tire they can find. Tire options? Here's an idea. ZL1 comes standard with the 6 and offer the 6.2 and 6.2 SC options? It is a ZL1 described on Chevy's site as BARELY STREET LEGAL. Chevy got the tires right.

Finally when a tire manufacture tells you not to to drive a tire in whatever conditions there must be a reason. The reason is tire tread composition and design. I am a huge fan of Bridgestone RE-11 tires. They are hands down the best combination street / track tire. They turn into rolling black ICE when it gets cool. Not cold. Cool. Below 60 degrees the rears spin in every gear at modest throttle. In freezing temps they are almost useless. Let the pavement warm up, build some heat in them and they get sticky. The tires do exactly what they were designed to do.

Look at the tread. Bridgestone says they are designed to operate reasonably well in the rain. I guess it depends on what you call reasonable. They aren't horrible, but they are not good. They are better than slicks, but not good. If you buy these types of tires you don't expect good in the rain.



If you plan to drive your ZL1 in cold temps, cold rain or snow you are going to need winter tires. The tread compound is the polar opposite of the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercars. Winter tires do not perform well in warm temperatures, but they are amazing in the cold, cold wet and snow. We had an AWD Pacifica with top quality all season tires. I was doing suspension development on a HHR SS so I bought a set of winter tires. The tuned to 350 FWHP lowered HHR SS was better in the snow than the AWD with all season tires. I thought I knew about the difference between all season and winter tires. I did know what my tire manufacturing friends told me. I just could grasp the gap between the two. The difference between a true performance tire and a winter tire is much greater and hard to get your arms around because it so so big.

My Chicago area Pedders Dealer Waukegan Tire does a HUGE business in winter wheel and tire packages for Porsche 911s. What do you think you should do with your new ZL1?

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We received a clarification to the questions that have been asked about cold-weather storage of the Ultra-High Performance tires that come equipped on the ZL1 from the factory.

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Old 12-23-2011, 04:08 AM   #61
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I'm not a tire manufacture so I'm not going to say what does or don't exist or what is marketing or not. They are listed that way for some reason, maybe speed rating.

I do remember when the fourth gen Z28 was offered with tire options, the Z rated and the "touring tires". My friend had one with the touring tires told me that GM limited the car to about 120 MPH. The Z rated equipped car were limited to the 155mph. So if thats true then offering all-season tires won't work on the ZL1 because of speed ratings. Also the handling chartiristics of all-seasons are not the same as a summer tire, for that safety maybe of concern with GM. With that said I take back my last post.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:18 AM   #62
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My friend had one with the touring tires told me that GM limited the car to about 120 MPH. The Z rated equipped car were limited to the 155mph.
This is why GM chose to go with the goodyear tires because they will set the speed limiters according to the tire rating, had they gone with a All Season tire the ZL1 would be limited to the 120-150 MPH range and I personally don't want that! Everyone stop your belly aching and do some actual research in this area:







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Old 12-23-2011, 02:25 PM   #63
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Paying 60k for this car and then having to worry about the tires cracking? I'm not going to stress over the tires. Drive it normally and not hard, you should be fine
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:01 PM   #64
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Paying 60k for this car and then having to worry about the tires cracking? I'm not going to stress over the tires. Drive it normally and not hard, you should be fine
Only within the stated temperature range can a ZL1 be driven normally.
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Old 12-25-2011, 12:57 PM   #65
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I recently sold my '98 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 to RK Motors in NC...
OMG, I really miss that car; she was sweet... ! In the meantime, I'm sharing a 2012 Nissan Altima 3.5SR coupe with my wife until my ZL1 is delivered.

I've never been a fan of GOODYEAR rubber; the stories I could tell. I had a fresh set of YOKOHAMA ADVAN Neova AD-08s installed & I can tell you that they were the finest high performance Summer tires that I have ever experienced. WET, DRY... no matter, they delivered the goods. The VR-4 is a Japanese twin intercooled turbo GT with AWD & AWS. The tire manufacturer claims that they are good to go at temperatures above 14F (storage/driven). If YOKOHAMA can develop a compound that can handle relatively cold temperatures w/o cracking or chunking out, why can't GOODYEAR? A threshold of 40F is absurd & with ZL1s scheduled to be delivered via carriers exposed to the elements during Winter months, there is pause for concern. Damage during transport can be subtle & not necessarily visible to the naked eye. I would think that GM's Corporate attorneys are a bit perplexed. Can you imagine the liability involved with a decision to release the vehicle at a time that technically voids its own warranty with regard to rubber? Too bad that YOKOHAMA doesn't make the Advan Neova AD-08s to fit the ZL1; I'd be 1st in line for a swap out. I never drove my VR-4 in the snow or when temperatures dropped below 20F. They never go glassy or developed flat spots; they always exhibited state of the art performance!

I had considered a NIssan GT-R, but the less than 9 approach angle wasn't working for me considering the fact that my driveway to a climate controlled garage has a 10 slope. By my calculations (gulp) it should have the same approach clearance as my VR-4... hahahahaaa

MERRY CHRISTMAS fellow gearheads!
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:26 PM   #66
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Now that's funny!
Normally people with Lambos in general can replace cars at will , around here i think we love the one we have .
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Old 12-25-2011, 03:04 PM   #67
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A threshold of 40F is absurd & with ZL1s scheduled to be delivered via carriers exposed to the elements during Winter months, there is pause for concern. Damage during transport can be subtle & not necessarily visible to the naked eye. I would think that GM's Corporate attorneys are a bit perplexed. Can you imagine the liability involved with a decision to release the vehicle at a time that technically voids its own warranty with regard to rubber?
The tires will be fine during transport,Its not like the cars will be driven at high speeds during the loading/unloading process.
The tires will also be fine while the car is sitting up in Oshawa waiting for delivery.
And its not like the tires "can't" be in the cold at all,the bulletin says to let them warm up to 40 degrees F prior to any highway use "if" they have been in temps under 20 degrees F.
When my SS arrived in mid-February this year the carrier driver told me when he loaded it that it was about -15 degrees F in Oshawa (I work at the dealership,so I get to see all the vehicles arriving) the P-Zero's are "summer only" tires and they survived just fine.
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:30 PM   #68
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I certainly hope your right. I will taking delivery of mine 3 states away. And if delivery is around March there is a good chance that temps will be in unrecommended range. I don't trust the car remaining at the dearlership until nice weather decides to roll around. GM needs to put out more than what is stated in the TSB. They need a set of recommendations for different situations. And when I get the car back home. I don't want to have to dismount the rims and tires and stick them in the basement. That's just wrong. I'm not paying $60k for a car to put it up on blocks even if I'm not driving it. While I respect some of the suggestions and opinions offered on the forum, the only one that really matters is GM's. So please GM. Put out something that provides some detailed best practices and recommendations to those of us in cold weather climates so that it won't force us to spend another couple grand. The recommendations provided in the TSB still leave a lot of room for different factors and situations.
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