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Old 05-03-2009, 11:42 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
"People saying" what the Camaro was going to run, and the times the car actually ran, were two different things. It was all speculation, then the car came out and it runs 13.0. There were no ringers, no lies, no bullshit. People made estimates, some were right, some were wrong, the facts came out as soon as it was road tested by the mags.

The GTR, on the other hand, came out and ran much faster times than a 480HP 4,000lb car should run. Which led a lot of people, including mags, to speculate that the car was making more power than advertised. Fast forward to subsequent test models though, and the car can't break 11's nor is it running anything close to 120MPH. All they are doing now if blowing transmissions and making Nissan look bad.

I've driven plenty of 350Z's and I recently drove a 370Z. When I say it has no low end power I mean it. You can punch the throttle in the lower or midrange RPM's and absolutely nothing happens until the rev's get way up in the powerband. I hate taking off on a hill and feeling like the car is struggling. I'll stick to my V8's, where I can take off from stops at idle without even touching the throttle if I so choose.
i agree with wes.
no ringer camaros were sent to reviews that i know of.
if you have a review with an outrageous time, please link.
all the times have been fairly close.
the GTR however, started wicked fast, then some how slowed more to what was expect for a car of its specs.


p.s. yes i know i can quote more than one at a time, sorry.
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Old 05-03-2009, 11:45 PM   #172
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I apologize for the insult Wesman, and I actually agree with most of what you posted above. I personally don't care about the GTR, it's maintenance fees alone are a joke and I don't pay much attention to it, my only point was that the numbers you get aren't the numbers you'll always see which is an obvious point. We both know the new Camaro SS is a high 12 to low 13 second car yet there are at least 2-3 separate instances already filmed of it hitting mid-high 13's most likely due to drivers or what have you. I don't know that I'm necessarily a Nissan fanboy, I love my car but I'm realistic about it as far as possible- I also know that if I had the opportunity to choose between the Camaro SS and a 370z I'm going with the Camaro hands down but I do respect what Nissan has done with this engine.
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Old 05-03-2009, 11:48 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by levi1922 View Post
the VQ is Superior to the LS3 in terms of technology.
the LLT is also more technologically advanced than the LS3.
Direct injection will likely be spread to V8s at some point.
with that being say, yes, the LS3 will out perform the VQs
an LS3 in a 370z would be amazing, in theory.
but, it would add weight, and throw off the balance of the car...
and those are what make the 370 what it is.

The VQ has been on wards ten best every year its been produced until 09.
Levi, thank you for the post and the insightful information, I didn't even know this and was more than willing to concede with Wesman that the LS3 was/is a much better engine than the VQ. A guy over at my350z.com just swapped an LS2 engine into his Z and it sounds sick, no info yet on how it performs, I'd imagine there's a few kinks to work out before he's confident enough to see what it can do.
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:28 AM   #174
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wanna cookie?

it's all preference, I know what you're saying because I drive my bro's charger to get the torquey 'round town, low rpm, V8 and I enjoy it fully, but it takes nothing away from what makes the 370z a unique car- they're not the same driving experience for sure, but it won't be long before every other car on the road is a camaro again, and the 370z will at least still be somewhat rare in comparison. And any V6 which competes directly with some of the best v8's on the market impresses me.
i hope so i would love to see over 100k camaros sold!
LS>VQ
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:41 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
"People saying" what the Camaro was going to run, and the times the car actually ran, were two different things. It was all speculation, then the car came out and it runs 13.0. There were no ringers, no lies, no bullshit. People made estimates, some were right, some were wrong, the facts came out as soon as it was road tested by the mags.

The GTR, on the other hand, came out and ran much faster times than a 480HP 4,000lb car should run. Which led a lot of people, including mags, to speculate that the car was making more power than advertised. Fast forward to subsequent test models though, and the car can't break 11's nor is it running anything close to 120MPH. All they are doing now if blowing transmissions and making Nissan look bad.

I've driven plenty of 350Z's and I recently drove a 370Z. When I say it has no low end power I mean it. You can punch the throttle in the lower or midrange RPM's and absolutely nothing happens until the rev's get way up in the powerband. I hate taking off on a hill and feeling like the car is struggling. I'll stick to my V8's, where I can take off from stops at idle without even touching the throttle if I so choose.



What the hell has this got to do with the 370z putting down a 13.1 1/4 mile time.
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Old 05-04-2009, 10:05 AM   #176
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Wow, you know maybe its a good thing i put this thread up. Because people are getting all there anger out on this thread. At eachother, instead of getting out of there chair, away from there computers and beating there wife.
But it is also kind of a bad thing, cause now people are at eachothers necks. ha ha.

THEY ARE BOTH GOOD CARS IN THERE OWN ASPECTS. EACH HAS THERE UPS AND DOWNS. WHY DOES NOBODY ELSE WANNA SEE THAT AND JUST LET THINGS GO?

I would have got a 370Z myself if it was quicker then it is. Also the back seats in the Camaro make me lean for it. I can carry more people. Although it sucks for the people in the back, but its my car so i will always be upfront. If they don't like it, they can bite me.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:15 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by levi1922 View Post
the VQ is Superior to the LS3 in terms of technology.
the LLT is also more technologically advanced than the LS3.
Direct injection will likely be spread to V8s at some point.
with that being say, yes, the LS3 will out perform the VQs
an LS3 in a 370z would be amazing, in theory.
but, it would add weight, and throw off the balance of the car...
and those are what make the 370 what it is.

The VQ has been on wards ten best every year its been produced until 09.
Actually, the VQ isn't superior to the LS3 in terms of technology. Its actually the other way around, because technology and complexity are not synonyms. Meaning the VQ is more complex than the LS3, but mechanically inferior in many ways. Many people look at OHC engine and assume they are superior to OHV engines. Thats an ignorant way to judge engines.

The LSX engine is a naturally balanced engine. The VQ isn't, hence the unpleasent vibrations and harshness in the higher RPM's.

The LSX is a closed deck block. The VQ uses and open deck block, in which the cylinder "float" in the block itself. This is a weak design (Honda and Toyota use it as well, go figure) and will result in cylinder wall distortion or failure at higher power levels. It also means there is a much higher chance of developing a head gasket leak, since there is an exponentionally larger area to seal.

The LSX uses 6 bolt main bearing caps for the ultimate in block strength. The VQ does not.

As far as serviceability goes, the LS engines are easy and inexpensive to work on and mod. The VQ needs to have the intake manifold pulled off just to change spark plugs.

Basically the LS does everything better than the VQ. It makes more power, runs smoother, its better built, its stronger, it sounds better, its easier to work on, its cheaper to mod, and its more fuel efficient to boot. How can you argue with that??
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:39 PM   #178
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The only Z car I would ever buy is a Z28.
Touché



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Old 05-04-2009, 09:23 PM   #179
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so, lets look at horse power.
2002 camaro SS, LS1.
this is and LSX motor.
it got 325 horse power, unless you paid more for SLP stuff.
the VQ in the 370z has 328. how can you say LSX makes more power?
and, i have yet to see a V6 that sounds as good as a V8.
and, if they made a V8 VQ, im sure they would beef it up.
since you insist on comparing apples to oranges.
and i plan to take my car to the dealer for any maintenance anyway.
and the 3.7 VQ gets 18/26mpg. so idk how you figure its getting worse.

you cannot argue that a direct injected engine is less technologically advanced than a pushrod engine. find a stock push rod V6 with 337 horse power
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Old 05-04-2009, 10:27 PM   #180
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so, lets look at horse power.
2002 camaro SS, LS1.
this is and LSX motor.
it got 325 horse power, unless you paid more for SLP stuff.
the VQ in the 370z has 328. how can you say LSX makes more power?
All LS1's make 350HP at the crank, regardless of option package. Thats widely known. Therefore it makes more power.

Quote:
and the 3.7 VQ gets 18/26mpg. so idk how you figure its getting worse.
2002 LS1 6 speed F-body is rated at 19/28MPG. I'd say thats better than 18/26. And yet it displaces 2 liters more and makes more power in a car that is heavier. So much for the "technological advancements" of the VQ.

Quote:
you cannot argue that a direct injected engine is less technologically advanced than a pushrod engine. find a stock push rod V6 with 337 horse power
What does direct injection have to do with pushrods?? You can have a direct injected pushrod engine just as you can have a direct injected OHC engine. Its an irrelevent comparison. And yes, direct injection is better than SEFI, thats a given. I'm sure the GenV LSX will recieve direct injection, just as the 3.6 DI has it now.

Why would anyone want a 337HP V6, pushrods or not, when you can make more power and get better fuel economy with a V8?? You're asking a question that nobody needs an answer to.
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Old 05-04-2009, 11:43 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
All LS1's make 350HP at the crank, regardless of option package. Thats widely known. Therefore it makes more power.



2002 LS1 6 speed F-body is rated at 19/28MPG. I'd say thats better than 18/26. And yet it displaces 2 liters more and makes more power in a car that is heavier. So much for the "technological advancements" of the VQ.



What does direct injection have to do with pushrods?? You can have a direct injected pushrod engine just as you can have a direct injected OHC engine. Its an irrelevent comparison. And yes, direct injection is better than SEFI, thats a given. I'm sure the GenV LSX will recieve direct injection, just as the 3.6 DI has it now.

Why would anyone want a 337HP V6, pushrods or not, when you can make more power and get better fuel economy with a V8?? You're asking a question that nobody needs an answer to.


So all that extra power and it puts down the same 1/4 mile???


Kinda weak eh?
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:10 AM   #182
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So all that extra power and it puts down the same 1/4 mile???


Kinda weak eh?
if you dont know how to use your fbody they get the same times
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:23 AM   #183
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if you dont know how to use your fbody they get the same times
GM doesn't know how to drive their own cars?


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Old 05-05-2009, 01:35 AM   #184
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GM doesn't know how to drive their own cars?


no APPERENTLY NOT WHEN stock maro can hit HIGH 12's LS1
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:46 AM   #185
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no APPERENTLY NOT WHEN stock maro can hit HIGH 12's LS1
Apparently
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"With a light touch on the brakes, run the revs up a bit. Slip off the brake and bury the throttle. There's a light chirp as tires scratch for bite. Then comes a sub-5.0-second sled ride to 60 mph. A tick over 13.0 sec. and you're through the quarter-mile. It's a rush, of course, but not overly dramatic. Try the same thing with this pair's predecessors of 1970 or so and you'll find yourself in a bit of a wrestling match. Ain't progress wonderful? Maybe yes, and maybe sometimes it's fun to wrestle."
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:02 AM   #186
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Apparently
THANKS
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:49 PM   #187
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So all that extra power and it puts down the same 1/4 mile???


Kinda weak eh?
You're going in circles. 1/4 mile times are close because the Camaro is limited by traction. Throw some DR's on it and you're at least a half second faster than the 370Z, not even a race. The Z isn't limited by traction (because its gutless on the low end) so its times would most likely be the same.

What you're neglecting to factor in is trap speed. Once again, 111MPH is incomparably faster than 105MPH. Thats the push you get as the car is accelerating. And comparing 105MPH to 111MPH is like comparing a house cat to a mountain lion.
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